The Alarming Reality of ISIS Returnees

Australians have a right to answers when it comes to our national security.

During this session with Home Affairs, I asked several questions about the returning ISIS families and frankly, the lack of clarity is alarming.

Deradicalisation programs for these returning children are entirely voluntary. If the mothers do not consent, the states have no authority to force participation.

Basic questions, like whether any of the returning adult partners hold dual citizenship, or even the general age range of the children, were repeatedly put “on notice” due to privacy concerns.

If these children are deemed at risk and taken into state care, it will be the state taxpayers left holding the bill.

Instead of clear answers on security risks and monitoring, we got political deflections from Labor ministers trying to pass the buck.

Transcript

CHAIR: Senator Roberts.  

Senator ROBERTS: I have one other question, and then I’ll move on. We can go through quickly. Are any of the returning terrorist partners dual citizens?  

Ms Foster: I’d like to take that question on notice. I’m very conscious that, whilst there’s been a lot of public scrutiny of this—  

Senator ROBERTS: And concern.  

Ms Foster: and concern in the community, these are Australian citizens, and I just want to be careful that I’m not breaching any privacy considerations by providing personal details about the cohort. So let me take that on notice and see whether or not that’s information that I’m able to provide.  

Senator ROBERTS: Or if you can provide it in a way that doesn’t breach privacy, by saying, ‘Yes, three of them are, and they’re of this country, this country and this country.’  

Ms Foster: Certainly. I’ll take that on notice.  

Senator Watt: Senator, can I just add one thing here? I don’t know whether you’ve heard this point before, but it’s also worth remembering that, during the coalition’s period in office, there were over 40 actual fighters—as opposed to wives and children—who returned to the country. That’s just for some perspective here as well.  

Senator ROBERTS: I don’t know what value that adds to this case, but thank you for letting me know.  

Senator Watt: I think it’s just useful background.  

Senator ROBERTS: Well, I can’t interrogate Senator Duniam.  

Senator DUNIAM: We can swap if you’d like!  

Senator Watt: I’ll pass!  

Senator ROBERTS: Ms Foster, I think we can go through the rest of the questions pretty quickly, because they’re fairly simple, I think. I appreciate your need to protect security. Have the ISIS children already here commenced deradicalisation programs yet?  

Ms Foster: I don’t know the answer to that question. I’m assuming you mean those from the first cohort who came back a few weeks ago.  

Senator ROBERTS: Yes.  

Ms Foster: Let me see if anyone knows the answer to that. 

Senator ROBERTS: Could you take it on notice, please.  

Ms Foster: Yes.  

Senator ROBERTS: Will the newly arrived children participate in deradicalisation programs?  

Ms Foster: The state and territory authorities will make an assessment on a case-by-case basis about the needs of each child and what is appropriate given each of their circumstances. That’s part of the process that takes place once the families return.  

Senator ROBERTS: I assume, then, that you don’t know how many children will do the deradicalisation program.  

Ms Foster: I don’t.  

Senator ROBERTS: Is participation dependent on their agreement or the consent of their mothers?  

Mr Dowling: The programs which are provided by the states and territories as they relate to deradicalisation or counselling are voluntary. My presumption would be that for a minor under a certain age, depending on the rules in that jurisdiction, parental permission would potentially be involved. But I think it would depend on each jurisdiction and how they operate their programs.  

Senator ROBERTS: What will happen if the mothers do not consent? Have the states got the authority to force it?  

Mr Dowling: For those types of counselling programs, I don’t believe there is the power to compel someone to participate.  

Senator ROBERTS: I appreciate you answering the questions even though you are not completely certain. I understand why. Are any of the children expected to remain in the care of the state in cases where the children are considered at risk in the care of the mother? In other words, will the state taxpayers get the bill?  

Mr Dowling: That would be a decision for each jurisdiction.  

Senator ROBERTS: Are any of the children considered a risk to the safety of Australians? What’s the oldest child’s age?  

Mr Dowling: There is an age range. I think to provide that detail would probably cross the privacy boundaries of what we’re able to share.  

Senator ROBERTS: I don’t want names—just the range.  

Ms Foster: Let us take that on notice and see if we can provide that.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you, Ms Foster. Are any of the children—just the children—considered a risk to the safety of Australians?  

Mr Dowling: State and territory law enforcement and the Federal Police, as the secretary has outlined, are taking a role in continuing investigations in relation to anyone who’s arrived back home. Any implications for safety or security would be a matter for those authorities.  

Senator ROBERTS: Are any of the terrorist widows or brides or partners considered a risk to the safety of Australians?  

Ms Foster: I described before the process that the law enforcement and intelligence agencies will continue to take to assess the risk.  

Senator ROBERTS: And that’s largely state?  

Ms Foster: It’s a combination. In terms of the management of the people in their states, it’s the state law enforcement agencies. But, obviously, ASIO in particular has an intelligence function that crosses Australia.  

Senator ROBERTS: And they have been advising you?  

Ms Foster: They would be contributing to the assessments about the risks or threats posed.  

Senator ROBERTS: You mentioned that earlier. Will any of the children or the adult partners be monitored?  

Ms Foster: The exact actions that the law enforcement or intelligence agencies take are ones for them. That was the subject before where I was saying that I was uncomfortable discussing what specific activities might be undertaken, because none of us wants to put those activities at risk.  

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Is one of the returning children the child seen holding up the decapitated head of a murdered man that appeared in the media some years ago?  

Mr Dowling: I don’t know the answer to that question. 

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. How many more of these terrorists’ partners and children will the government be bringing back to the country?  

Ms Foster: Senator—  

Senator ROBERTS: Or allowing back into the country?  

Ms Foster: As we’ve said before, Australian citizens have a right to enter Australia if they hold citizenship, valid passports or valid travel documents. Apart from the one person against whom the government issued a temporary exclusion order, the other adults of the cohort of women and children who were held in the internally displaced persons camp in Syria have returned with their children.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. I appreciate your considered responses. I know it’s a difficult thing.  

Ms Foster: Thank you, Senator.