UNSW Allens Hub for Technology Law and Innovation

The UNSW Allens Hub for Technology, Law and Innovation (‘UNSW Allens Hub’) is an independent community of scholars based at UNSW Sydney.

During the inquiry into the government’s Digital Identity Bill, I asked representatives from the UNSW Allens Hub about their submission, which included data from India where digital identity was originally supposed to be voluntary but has become mandatory, and has resulted in restrictions on citizens despite government guarantees at the outset.

Their position is that legislative frameworks and protections should exist to prevent overreach from both government and non governmental authorities. Safeguards should be put in place to protect citizens who are being provided with essential services via digital identity to combat the power creep that we saw with the Director’s ID.

What is becoming clear, and the cautionary tale from India bears this out, both governments and private companies are embracing, with equal enthusiasm, the application of digital identity for all as the most convenient system for their purposes. Yet, what does this mean for Australians’ privacy and data given the cyber-security failures we have already seen from government and the private sector?

Human Technology Institute

At the Digital Identity inquiry I spoke with representatives of the Human Technology Institute, an industry body that promotes human rights in the development, use, regulation and oversight of new technology. Their comments make it clear that there needs to be strengthened legislation to improve privacy and other human rights protections with regards to the government’s Digital ID.

The government’s Digital ID Bill is part of the triad of tyranny, which is currently being whisked with indecent speed through what should have been a more careful scrutinising and debating process.

Surely privacy and human rights were not going to be left out of the new “trusted” digital identity that the Albanese government is keen for us all to embrace?

Australian Banking Association

At the Digital Identity Inquiry in Canberra, I questioned the Australian Banking Association about how Australians who don’t want a digital ID would lead a normal life without one.

I also asked how internet outages would impact on people’s lives when they rely on a digital identity to access their money.

Government wants to tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel. We must oppose this new dystopia at every turn.

Transcript (click to expand)

Joel Jammal:

One of the biggest people exposing what Klaus Schwab has been doing is a man sitting in this room, Malcolm Roberts. Malcolm, could you please come to the stage? Now, Malcolm is a Senator for One Nation, A Senator for Queensland. Queensland is first.

Malcom Roberts:

Very important. I’m the senator for the people who are elected, sorry constituents. I’m not a senator for One Nation. I’m a senator for the people of Queensland in Australia with One Nation.

Joel Jammal:

Absolutely, absolutely. Australia First, Queenslanders first. You’ve been taking the fight in the Senate, no matter if you have the numbers for a bill or not. You’ve been raising awareness on issues. How do you deal with Canberra? We were there and we were at a press conference yesterday with Nigel. The place feels dead. How do you get things on? How do you raise awareness on these issues?

Malcom Roberts:

Well, number one, I’ve got a remarkable leader in Pauline Hanson, and I mean that sincerely because Pauline has been in there fighting for a long, long time, and nothing deters her. If she says something, she means it. So I can trust her. If I disagree with her and I talk to her about it, she’ll either say, give me your facts. In which case, I’ll give them to her and she’ll say, “Fine, we’ll change your mind.” Or she’ll say, “No, I don’t agree with you,” so that’s wonderful. You know exactly where you stand, and she likes it when I tell her exactly where I stand, so that’s the first thing.

But the second thing is that we do what we think is right. That’s fundamental because then it doesn’t matter what I do, I’m comfortable with it. I don’t care who criticise me, how much they criticise me. If I’m doing the right thing, then I’m very, very comfortable. So I don’t care what people think.

Joel Jammal:

God bless you. I think the other parties need that as well. Is anyone in this room getting a little bit twitchy about digital currencies and digital passports? And I’m seeing a lot of nodding heads. Any business owners here? Put your hand up. I think the states have a lot of plans for businesses. Malcolm, what’s going on, on this front and how can people protect themselves? What’s coming down the line?

Malcom Roberts:

Well, to understand what’s coming down the line, we have to look at what has been coming along the line behind us. What did we see in COVID? We saw so many things for the first time. Any one of them we would’ve rejected, but instead they came steamrollered, one after the other and that just bamboozled people. Digital passes where you could and couldn’t go. Restrictions as to what you could do, what doctors can say.

I mean, a doctor, when you go to a doctor, you get his or her opinion about your health. You couldn’t get that now because the doctors are told what to say, so that’s the kind of thing we’re seeing coming. So a lot of the things that were done here, New Zealand, Canada, France, United States, we’re testing the way for digital identity.

You saw the Optus leak. Who’s have been involved in that? Anyone? 10 million people. Member of my staff left Optus in 2008, 14 years ago. He’s part of that leak. His information was leaked. So the big leaks come mainly from mistakes in big tech and in government, and they want us to trust them with our data, like hell. So what they’re trying to do is to get the Digital Identity Bill was introduced, not into Parliament, but it was circulated in the Parliament for discussion. Labour Party said they would support it.

Digital Identity Bill is about taking your data, health data, travel data, social media data, purchases, finances, everything about you and centralising it and then selling it. And if it goes to a foreign multinational, they look after it under their laws, not our laws, so it’s not secure. And then if you want to know your health data, you pay to get it. And then what they do is they bring in a digital currency to wipe out cash. And when you’ve got no cash, you’ve got no alternative and no choice. You understand that, and then they’ve got you. They’ve well and truly controlled.

And then they get onto a social credit system and they’re already doing it to us because they’re saying, if you produce more carbon dioxide, we’ll have to limit what you’re doing and carbon dioxide’s plant food. It’s a fertiliser. It’s wonderful. Without it, it’s a trace gas that’s essential for all life on this planet. It’s odourless, colourless, tasteless. It’s not a pollutant, but they fabricated this. So what you’re going to get more of, what we are going to get more of is lies to justify what they’re doing.

If you go to the World Economic Forum, they’re talking about my carbon. My carbon, your individual carbon, your individual carbon, your individual carbon dioxide. What they’re trying to say is they will put monitors on you and actually not a monitor. It’s going to be an app on this, which will estimate your carbon dioxide. It’s just a control mechanism, so that’s what they will do. They will justify everything that they want to cut in our lives through an app.

They will have passes what you can and can’t do, digital currency. The Reserve Bank in this country has been working on digital currency until we expose that for quite some years. They’re also working with other central banks around the world on their digital currency because they’re coming up with a global digital currency. So people talked about Pauline Hanson talking about the unelected global governance from the UN that was first murdered around 1996. She built a cat. She was ridiculed for it, but she’s telling the truth, so that’s what they’ve got coming down the line.

Job controls imposed, but the biggest thing of all, the scariest thing of all is that in the past, dictators use guns. Get down on your knees, buddy. Now they don’t. They use invisible systems, they use name calling, they use labels, they use indoctrination in schools. We’ve got kids thinking that carbon dioxide is a pollutant. It’s complete crap. This has not been going on for a few years, just like the COVID debacle, which was completely mismanaged because the health was never their concern. Their aim in COVID was to control us. That’s why they made such a stuff up of it, but they got what they wanted.

So this has been underway since 1944 with the formation of the UN for that very purpose. Now, 10 years ago, I would’ve laughed at anyone saying that. I know that for a fact. The UN senior people have been telling us that for a number of years. Ottmar Edenhofer, Murray Strong. Murray Strong concocted global warming, changed that into climate change. He did it, and then guess who formed the Chicago Climate Exchange for carbon dioxide credit trading? Yes. And who was doing the the directorships? Murray Strong. Murray Strong was a crook, a crook, and he had two aims in life. He stated them, unelected socialist global governance and deindustrialization of Western civilization.

What’s happening in Britain? Deindustrialization. What’s happening in America? Deindustrialization. What’s happening in Europe? Deindustrialization. What’s happening in Australia? Deindustrialization. We’re back heading back to the caves, but there’s one thing that’s really important and that is the people. If we wake up, that’s how we can stop them.

Pauline Hanson wanted a royal commission into financial services in this country. Turnbull was the Prime Minister. Morrison was the Treasurer. Morrison said 26 times, you’re not getting one. Turnbull said 16 times, you’re not getting one. So Pauline did a deal and got an inquiry that was called a Senate select inquiry into lending to primary production customers. She got that out of Turnbull. She made me the chair of that.

We went out into the bush, Pauline’s team and my team, and we helped the farmers put together submissions. We then held inquiries in the bush and we loaded up all the information and then we held the banks accountable in Sydney and in Canberra. We embarrassed them so much. Here she is. So we embarrassed them so much by getting the facts and the data out, that some of the nationals went to Turnbull and said, “You better have a royal commission because otherwise that’s going to be very embarrassing for you when our report comes out.” And there was a royal commission just before Pauline released the report.

Another thing, the Cash Ban Bill. James Ashby told me about the Cash Ban Bill. He’s on top of the things very, very well. Our staff got hold of it, we looked at it and sure enough it was a ban of cash for any purchase over $2,000, and you can see where that’s going. It would’ve been $200 and then complete ban. So what we did was we got hold of the cross bench, just my team plus Pauline’s staff. We got hold of the cross bench and showed them what was going on. They were horrified.

Then we got hold of some liberal branch members and they were horrified. The Labour Party and The Liberal Party and The National Party passed that through the lower House, came to the Senate, was sent to a committee, and because of the shit that we kicked up, it stayed in committee. And then I moved a motion to get rid of it off the Senate books and it got rid off Senate books, but they’re trying repeatedly in many other ways to ban cash because they want to control. Their main objective is control.

Joel Jammal:

You got to hand it to them. They’re diligent, aren’t they, Malcolm? They just won’t die. We are, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Pauline’s been to jail, and in second I will invite you to. Yes, she’s still here. Who says you can’t have a comeback, Pauline?

Now Malcolm, in a second I’m going to invite Pauline up, Senator Hanson rather. I’m very informal. I’m so comfortable with these senators. Tell me another senator in the major parties you can just approach like this. I mean, Malcolm has been fighting the fight. Pauline, Senator Hansen has been fighting the fight. Senator, what’s that? Oh, you love Pauline. Oh, cool. She invited me too. It’s polite too now. Okay. All right.

One Nation has been an absolute bull work against the major parties in the last few years. I particularly liked that time you held up the entire government agenda this year when you and Senator Rennick and Senator Antic held up the entire government agenda so they couldn’t get a single thing passed in the last five or six months because they would not move on the job.

Senator Rennick and Senator Antic said, “Scott Morrison, I know we’re in the Liberal Party, but we will not move on this.” We have to deal with stories like Sienna Knolls, 19 year old equestrian girl, healthy. You got to be quite healthy to be an equestrian. Jab injured, two jabs, jab injured. He said, “If you don’t move on this, if you don’t offer some protections, we’re not passing any bills. So between One Nation and these two liberal senators, they absolutely held up the entire government agenda for five months. It was a lame duck session. And so thank you guys for that and thank you for being a light on all of these issues. Thank you.

Malcom Roberts:

Thank you for doing what you’re doing.

Joel Jammal:

No, it’s my pleasure.

Skip to 30m30s for Senator Roberts’ interview

I joined Maria Zeee for an important conversation about the Digital Identity Bill and how it is feeding into more control for the globalists.

Transcript

Maria Zee:

Now, one of the other problems that’s plaguing our country at the moment and has been for some time is the increased government surveillance that we’ve seen over the past two years under the guise of COVID 19 measures. They claim that it’s for the safety of the people to be surveilling them, but now all of a sudden, we’re talking about the trusted digital ID that’s going to be implemented in Australia. What does this actually mean? Well Senator Malcolm Roberts is a person that’s been speaking up a lot about how this lines up with Klaus Schwab’s plan for the great reset. You will own nothing, and you will be happy. Yuvil Harari, the Lead Advisor of Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum says we can now track and trace individuals and even manipulate them the way that we want. What do they mean? Well here’s a clip from the UN about what they say digital is.

Speaker 13:

Digital Transformation is changing the way we manage our data, our information, our interactions, and our identities online. The United Nations is ready to digitally transform how it deals with identity, with a system to streamline information sharing, daily workflows, access to platforms and buildings, operating across agencies by providing its personnel with a universal system-wide identity solution. Introducing the UN Digital ID, a unique and digital identity for UN personnel from the day you join to the day you part. All of your personal, HR, medical, travel, security, payroll, and pension data in the Palm of your hand, giving you full control on what you share and with whom. With blockchain and biometrics, the UN Digital ID makes verification efficient, secure, transparent, immutable, portable, and universal. It’s been piloted by different agencies and the UN Pension Fund where they’ve replaced current manual processes with certainty for who and where pension recipients say they are at any given time.

Speaker 13:

Imagine a regional field officers just joined the UN. She uses the mobile app to obtain a digital wallet stored securely in her smartphone and only accessible to her with biometrics. Even better than a physical wallet, she can store all her credentials issued by any UN organisation in her digital wallet. She has immediate access to core certificates, travel clearances from UN DSS, medical records from allergies to vaccinations, also making any transfer to another organisation a breeze. As innovation transforms the world, we can improve the way we manage our identities online. UN Digital IDs, a building block for digital corporation, unlocking the promise of the SDGs.

Maria Zee:

And of course, we had to see a picture of the world just then, because this is linked to the wellbeing of the planet, right? Digital ID, improving your security, all of your things in one place, all for the sake of convenience, just like most things that we’ve been told are for the sake of our convenience when they’re actually to increase surveillance. Now, Senator Malcolm Roberts has a different take on what the digital ID means, and here’s something the mainstream media won’t show you.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

The United Nations has a problem. How can they control the carbon footprint of the world’s citizen? Very soon, government will tell our farmers what they can grow and punish Australian consumers if they buy the wrong things. The dream of micromanaging individual carbon emissions hinges on the soon to be past so-called, Trusted Digital Identity Bill. If Scott Morrison and Barnaby Joyce want to achieve their net zero 2050 dream, freedoms must be slashed, removed.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

It is only through the relentless digital stalking of citizens that the liberal nationals government can micromanage purchasing choices. Businesses are punished with tax while consumers get their credit score docked. This already happens in China where a person’s shopping list lowers their social credit score until they cannot travel. In Australia, it may be as simple as denying banking services because you dare to drive a four wheel drive to work. Australian banks have already shown a keen interest in the trusted digital identity bill, saying it will, “Allow them to create a rich view of their customers.” These are the same banks that already list climate risk as a means to deny loans. When the liberals tell you that digital identity will make your life easier, remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Maria Zee:

There is no such thing as a free lunch. That is seriously alarming stuff. That is taking steps towards a police state where you are monitored for every single thing that you do buy, sell, even think. And it’ll of course affect your social credit score, which is what the digital ID could very well lead to and some say it will. And of course, we know the World Economic Forum has these plans as so said Senator Malcolm. He talks about the great resist recently in parliament. I want to show that clip before we go to Senator Malcolm Roberts.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

If this parliament gets its wrong, every day Australians will suffer through inflation or worse stagflation for decades. And instead of working together to push Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum plan based on United Nations policies, work together instead for our country. Klaus Schwab life by subscription is really surfed him, its slavery. Billionaire globalist corporations will own everything homes, factories, farms, cars, furniture, and everyday citizens will rent what they need if their social credit score allows.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

The plan of the great reset is that you will die with nothing. To pull off this evil plan, Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum will need to take more than just material possessions from Australians. Senators in this very chamber today who support the great reset threaten our privacy freedom and dignity. Yes, they’re in this Senate Chamber. One nation vehemently opposes the great reset, the digital identity bill, theft of agricultural land use forcing farmers off their land, and all of the great reset. One nation has a comprehensive plan to bring our beautiful country back to sustainable prosperity. And in the months ahead, we will be rolling that plan out. Instead of lib lab, pushing Klaus Schwab’s great reset with the tagline, you’ll own nothing and be happy. One nation advocates, the great resist.

Maria Zee:

The great resist, which is essentially what everyone should be doing if they knew just how much government control a digital ID would lead to yet, the mainstream media is not warning you about what the new propaganda around climate change actually means and how the digital ID could be weaponized against every single Australian citizen. Well, Senator Malcolm has been speaking about this regularly and he joins us now for an update. Here’s Senator Malcolm. Thank you Senator Malcolm Roberts for joining us today to discuss a range of very, very important topics.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Well, you’re welcome. And thank you for the invitation, Maria. And I’ve got to say how much I appreciate what you do because it’s people who are independent broadcasters like you that really are going to bring Australia back.

Maria Zee:

Well, just earlier in the show, we spoke about all of the information the mainstream media has either been withholding from Australian people or misrepresenting over the past two and a half years. So I think it’s absolutely crucial that we continue to do this. Now, the main things that we want to discuss today really are this climate change bill that’s just passed in the lower house in Australia. And obviously, we need to discuss digital ID and how this all ties in. And my questions to you, Senator Roberts are we had an ice age, not so long ago. Now it’s global warming and now we’re pivoting to manmade climate change, human beings, being at fault for climate change. Can you weigh in on this for us?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Sure. There’s climate variability. It’s naturally varies every day just like you are taller than I am. You’re a woman, I’m a man and we’ve got people all around varying in nature. We’ve got trees varying in nature. Everything varies. The weather varies, the climate varies and the climate comes and goes in cycles. And so, what’s happened is that they have fabricated this, a man called Maurice Strong, he died in 2015 just before the Paris Agreement. And he concocted it. He was a Canadian billionaire. He was a crook, a criminal who the American police wanted in investigations of some pretty serious crimes. He was also connected with the UN’s Food for Oil scam in the middle east. The man was exiled in China so that the authorities couldn’t get him. It was a complete scam that was concocted by Maurice Strong from Canada.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

He formed the United Nations Environmental Programme in 1972. Six months later, he became the Head of the UN Environmental Programme. He was sitting amongst a very senior level, one down from the secretary general, the top dog in the UN. And because he was surrounded by basically failed politicians, failed bureaucrats and academics and other glory seekers in the UN who just have no accountability, when it came to matters of environment, they all turned to Maurice Strong. So he wrapped everything as an environmental issue and he got control of so many things. He fabricated the global warming scam, he created the intergovernmental panel on climate change. He created the UN framework convention on climate change, which oversaw the circle scientific body, the IPCC. He’s done the lot. And he created the IPCC with his influence.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

The man was very bright, very, very bright, but he is also twisted. And he was a very, very good networker Maria. Butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. He was just a phenomenal mover of people. He created the whole ground swell at meetings like the Rio De Janeiro, what do they call that? The Rio De Janeiro conference in 1992, where we signed Agenda 21. He created the fanfare around UN Toyota Protocol in 1997, which then John Howard implemented. Now, he’s concocted the lot. But the other thing is that, we’ve asked the CSIRO for their evidence of climate change and they have come back and admitted that today’s temperatures are not unprecedented. The temperatures were warmer in the 1880s and 1890s in Australia then today. The temperatures, according to NASA’s global satellites are pretty much flat. If you take away El Nino and La Nina variation, it’s pretty much flat since 1995.

Maria Zee:

So what we’re essentially dealing with is change of weather. CSIRO cannot produce the evidence of climate change and yet Australia has just passed the climate change bill of 2022 in the lower house. Now I’ve read that bill and it continues to make reference to the Paris Agreement of 2015, which I’ve also read. Now, there’s a lot about how climate change affects women and girls with their domestic activities apparently, but it doesn’t actually specify any solutions as to how to deal with this so-called climate change, which you are saying isn’t even a real thing.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Correct.

Maria Zee:

So what is the government actually proposing? Because the climate change build doesn’t have any solutions. How are we going to, other than maintaining the world temperature at pre-industrial levels and reducing carbon emissions, which now we’re being told CO2 is harmful human beings breathe out CO2. What solutions is the government actually saying that we need here because they have not specified anything, either in this bill or the Paris Agreement of 2015?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Well, if you remember just a few things. First of all, government in our country and in many Western countries has now become a huge means of transferring wealth from the poor and the middle class to the wealthy elites. That’s what it is all about. The second thing it’s all about is control, controlling what we do. And you want to talk about the digital identity bill later, that’s what is the mechanism enabling them to control us. So they want control and they want to extract money. That’s what they’re all about. Just remember those two things. So the Paris Agreement has, by the way, the Paris Agreement is not an agreement. What they did was, because they couldn’t get agreement at the previous Conference of Parties in Copenhagen, and it was an embarrassment for the UN and all the global leaders. What they decided at Paris was that the global leaders would come in at the start, not the end.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

And they would leave, create the fanfare, getting the media. Then the bureaucrats would hammer out an agreement. Now the agreement was, China basically said stuff you, India said, we’re not doing it. And so China’s commitment to the Paris Agreement is, we won’t do anything until 2030 and then we’ll think about it. And India pretty much the same. So what we said was, we’ll destroy our economy and hand it all over to China. And that’s our part of the UN agreement. I mean, we didn’t literally say hand it over to China, but what we’re doing to electricity prices, we are handing it over to China.

Maria Zee:

Well, what I’ve read in that agreement is a lot of, we’ll work it out as we go it seems as per whatever, the committee or the members, there’s a lot of confusing language in that document, Senator Roberts.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

It is confusing. And the other thing that the Paris Agreement calls into play is net zero by 2050. Now, the only way you can do that is using unreliable solar and wind, which jacks up the price of our electricity, which sends our jobs overseas because electricity is now the biggest component of manufacturing, not labour.

Maria Zee:

So well, here’s the thing about solar and wind as well. Sorry to cut you off there. But the whole thing about solar and wind is, if the climate is so unpredictable, wouldn’t that mean that solar and wind would be an unreliable source of energy?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Maria, we have spent up until roughly 1870, 1880, we have spent hundreds of thousands of years scratching around in the dirt at the whim of mother nature’s floods and droughts and temperatures and storms. We get hydrocarbon fuels, coal, natural gas, and oil. We suddenly are independent of nature, well, not completely, of course, but we’re basically our food… We don’t have famines anymore. This is remarkable. We don’t have famines because we’ve got the technology now to overcome them. Dams, irrigation, fertilisers control, not control of but control of weather forecast, not control of the weather, but we can forecast when things happening. We build buildings in ways that protect us against nature’s extremes. So the deaths due to natural disasters are plummeted all around the world because of our savvy. The food production is skyrocketed because of our savvy.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Now these bastards want to destroy that and take away a hydrocarbon fuels and give us unreliable solar and wind. It’s also unstable, it’s not secure, it’s very expensive. The price relationship between the amount of renewables and the amount of solar and wind and the cost of electricity is like that. It just increases. So if you’ve got all cost of electricity up here, the amount of renewables here, the further out you go, the higher the price of electricity. We are doing ourselves out of our industry. We’re killing jobs in this country, killing our security and as you pointed out, we’re handing ourself back to mother nature, just absurd, especially at a time when they say, oh, the climate’s becoming more variable. Why would you go to wind and solar?

Maria Zee:

Precisely. So this then leads into the second part of our conversation, which is digital ID and the whole global surveillance being pushed by the World Economic Forum. I’ve just before played a clip of you speaking in parliament recently about this, the great reset and what Australia needs to do, which is the great resist. And I love that slogan, I think it’s fantastic. This entire climate change narrative is going to be used to control people even further. Can you talk to us about how Australia’s trusted digital identity bill leads into all of that?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Sure. It’ll take some time. And I’ve got some notes from a briefing paper, my staff produced. And by the way, we were the first in Australia to reveal this. And we’ve given copies of it to a couple of in liberal senators, who are sympathetic and they’re awake. Very few senators are awake.

Maria Zee:

Oh, sorry. I just lost you. You’re back now. Nope, I’ve lost you again. There we go. There we go. You’re back. A very few liberal senators are awake.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Yes, we’ve given this to two liberal senators at my briefing paper that our staff developed and they’re across it. Now, what we want to do is wake people up because my office is the one that’s that’s scratched the, or what do you call it? Discarded the cash ban bill. We did that with the help of people on the ground with the help of the cross band standards. We woke people up and trashed it and got rid of the cash band bill. Now what the digital identity bill is about, is about bringing back again, a ban on cash and about controls on people. So it’s a huge potential for corporations to get control of our data. What it means is that, the government can sell your data to a company, that company can be foreign, and they can store your data overseas, which no longer protects your security of your data, your privacy.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Then they can sell that data to whoever they want to sell it to. So, in other words, if you want access to your medical records, you’ll have to pay a foreign corporation to get access to your medical records. That’s how bad it could be. But that’s the thin end of the wedge. They also want to have digital currency. And we know that the Reserve Bank of Australia has been working on this for many years. So they get a digital currency in place, and that’s ultimately where they want to go. And then, if you do something that the government doesn’t like, you make the wrong comments on social media, you buy a four wheel drive instead of a little tiny eco box, then they say, if you want a house loan, stop making your comments on social media. You want a house loan? Swap your four wheel drive for a little eco box.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

See what they do? They control you. And that’s what happens. And if you don’t, then what we’ll do is just scratch your digital identity, which means that you can’t access your bank accounts, which means you can’t access food. You can’t buy anything. This is how they control. And the real thing they’re after is control of you. So if they see you’ve gone to a protest, your digital identity is cancelled. You can’t get food, you can’t go to the bank.

Maria Zee:

Well, there are a lot of people that might be watching this broadcast and I hope they are that wouldn’t normally attend a protest, but I want people to know that this is not just affecting those who you’ve seen over the past couple of years, who are standing against the immense control that the government gained through the COVID 19 measures. We’re talking about this affecting every single person and their family. Do go on.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, right. So it affects your medical history, the shopping and spending preferences, they’ll know all this. Who you associate with, judging whether your choices are in compliance with the government’s wishes, whether they’re so-called green, social security, veteran services, travel and movement records, whether you will be allowed to travel, whether you have access to travel, surveillance, website viewing, they’ll track what websites you’re going to, employment status, wealth measurement, that’s bank records, social media comments, everything you do will be recorded and converted into digital form, and then used against you to control you. And that’s what they really want. They want control. All of this is about control. And it started with the COVID measures, Maria. We saw those. They were despicable. Anti-human, immoral, unlawful, but they started with them and they practised a lot of their tricks for controlling people on COVID.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

And they got in place some of their measures. You saw the QR codes and scanning in at various places and checking in, that’s what they’re doing with this. And by the way, the World Economic Forum is the source of our digital identity bill. Parts of our digital identity bill were copied and pasted from World Economic Forums, digital platform policy I think it’s called, digital project. And I just asked for an update from one of my staff.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

And he said that, the same bill or virtually identical bill has been rolled out in other countries around the world, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, Singapore, Thailand. That’s where bills are before the parliament right now. The EU European union has a bill for the whole of the European Union. Malaysia has it in place past already. It’s already at 64% uptake then. So it’ll be needed once they get a hundred percent uptake or very close to a 100% uptake, then they will just make it compulsory for anything to do with the government or banking. In the Philippines, it’s similar. And in Indonesia, it’s across government only not banking yet. So they’re moving this out throughout Asia and throughout the European Union and through Canada in North America.

Maria Zee:

Klaus Schwab recently, and proudly stated that they have infiltrated over 50% of governments worldwide.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Yep. I thought it was just Sarah Hanson-Young from the greens who was a graduate from the World Economic Forums, Young Leaders Programme. But we also learned that liberal Senator Andrew Bragg is a graduate. We found that Clare O’Neil is a graduate from the labour party. We found, I can’t remember the other name, Scott Morrison’s a graduate. I think there are three or four others senators and MPS who are graduates of that same programme from the World Economic Forum. And what they’re doing is, they’re putting people in places of power in governments to control those governments. So they don’t need to get votes, they just need these people to be in charge. Canada has I think seven, no sorry, Republican Party in America has seven graduates in its ranks and the Democrats have dozens of members in their ranks, Canada similarly. And I think in Canada, they’ve actually got control of the government. So basically, the World Economic Forum is taken over. And then this is not new stuff. This is stuff that the World Economic Forum itself has said, as you pointed out Klaus Schwab has said.

Maria Zee:

So their entire plan is, obviously they’re talking openly now about the great reset, the new world order. They’ve made the statements. We had public health officials last year talking about this is the new world order. This is now essentially no longer even hidden in plain site. They’re openly speaking about it. So what does Australia do to resist this? You called this the great resist. What should Australians be doing right now and what should people be making others aware of?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Listening to you in this interview and spread it around. That’s the first thing we need to do. And then calling your member of parliament and saying to him or her, you want a meeting and you don’t want this because you control your member of parliament. They don’t control you, you control them. We need to get the power back in the right area there. And then, if you can’t get a meeting with them, then talk to them on the phone. If you can’t do that, then send them a written letter saying you’re against it. Most of the members of parliament have no idea what you and I are talking about right now. I’m mean that sincerely.

Maria Zee:

These are some of the most important issues facing the entire world right now, and the fact that they are ignorant to this is beyond me.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Yep. Well, there’s so many things. They’re ignorant to the climate change scam. They’re ignorant to the cash band bill. They thought it was something else. This is liberals and nationals thought it was something else. And when you tell them straight, they then follow the party power brokers anyway. But see, we beat the cash ban. Labour and liberal, both put it through the lower house, but we got such good publicity on it, and so much pressure on it politically that labour sent it to a committee and then it languish in the committee for months, and then I moved a motion to get rid of it off the Senate books.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

And we passed it to get rid of it off the Senate books. So the cash plan bill is gone. But what we know is, cash is really important. So that’s another thing people can do. If you have no cash, you’ve got no alternative. If you’ve got cash, you’ve got an alternative as to how you buy something. So use cash wherever you can. That’s what I do sometimes. I used to just use a card, no more. I carry cash with me to use cash. So buy with cash wherever you can.

Maria Zee:

Senator Malcolm Roberts, we thank you so much for bringing awareness to Australians about these crucial issues that face all of humanity all around the world. But most importantly, Australia has been through so much over the past two and a half years, we have literally destroyed our economy. And as much as they want to tell us that we haven’t, and I know that we have. How many small to medium size businesses weren’t able to continue, weren’t able to recover from all of this, not to mention the mental health impacts and the long term impacts and we’re already talking about this climate change, which we don’t even have the system set up, the infrastructure set up for what they are wanting to achieve. And yet-

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

They’re already transferring billions of dollars through your electricity rates into the hands of billionaires who are making money out of solar and wind. Most of the companies installing solar and wind turbines are foreign owned multinational, including some from the Chinese communist party. So this is about a transfer of wealth and about control, and you’ll only be allowed to use power when the government says you can. So at the moment you go home at night, you’d flick on a switch and take it for granted. You won’t take that for granted in the future because they’ve got it all wrapped up. You’d have to beg and scrape to get your food, to beg and scrape to get your air conditioner. They want us down on the knees, they want to bring you to your knees.

Maria Zee:

Just like we’ve seen in China recently. Some footage emerged out of China of people literally being forced onto their knees to be tracked and traced for COVID by people inspecting them. Again, Senator Malcolm Roberts, thank you for sharing this important information and coming on to speak with us today.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Well, thank you for what you’re doing. Keep doing it for goodness sake. We’ve got to have some honest media and you’re one of them. So thank you very much, Maria.

Maria Zee:

Thank you to Senator Roberts. We’ll be back right after this short break. As some of you may know, I’m a regular contributor to Red Voice Media, where you will find fellow truthers and those committed to reporting the real news like Stew Peters and Dr. Jane Ruby, and many more. You can trial their premium subscription service for just $1 for the first month and only $10 every month thereafter. You’ll love it. Link is in the description below.

Maria Zee: So you can see from this discussion with Senator Malcolm Roberts, just how far they want to take government control. And speaking of government control, maybe people have forgotten or didn’t have access to the footage during the protest when people were protesting their God given rights, their right to bodily autonomy, they’re right to their civil liberties, which this digital ID seeks to strip from you. And maybe we’ve forgotten of just what they’re capable of.

Remember the plan to restrict you to eating less than one bite of red meat per day? That’s only possible if the Government can track your every move with the Digital Identity Bill.

Transcript

The United Nations has a problem. How can they control the carbon footprint of the world’s citizens? Not the whole world of course, just the West, the United Nations Conference of Parties 26. Gave us an insight into the UN’s menu-plan, where Scott Morrison watched without criticising their demand to reduce the carbon footprint of our food supply, instead of counting calories,

Australians will soon have their culinary delights and choices dictated to us by an unelected socialist bureaucracy, very soon government will tell our farmers what they can grow and punish Australian consumers if they buy the wrong things. This has already started with frightening reform schedule for Australian agriculture. The dream of micromanaging individual carbon emissions hinges on the soon to be passed, so-called Trusted Digital Identity Bill.

If Scott Morrison and Barnaby Joyce want to achieve their Net Zero 2050 dream, freedoms must be slashed, removed, it is only through the relentless digital stalking of citizens that the Liberal National’s government can micromanage purchasing choices. Businesses are punished with tax, while consumers get their credit score docked. This already happens in China, where a person’s shopping list lowers their social credit score until they cannot travel.

In Australia, it may be as simple as denying banking services because you dare to drive a four wheel drive to work. Australian banks have already shown a keen interest in the Trusted Digital Identity Bill saying it will quote, “allow them to create a rich view of their customers”. These are the same banks that already list climate risk as a means to deny loans. When the Liberals tell you that digital identity will make your life easier, remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.

The ‘Trusted Digital Identity Bill 2021’ is a piece of legislation designed to act as the framework for a permanent and expansive ‘digital identity’ for all Australian citizens.

‘Digital Identity’ acts as a master ID, joining together previously disconnected government databases containing confidential personal information.

Where the myGov app links things like a driver’s licence, passport, Medicare card, and vaccination record – the Digital Identity sets out to link ALL government data related to a person. Future iterations of the Digital Identity propose to pair this data against private sector information, such as purchasing records, to create a rich digital view of a citizen.

While Australia lacks the corresponding technological infrastructure to utilise a Digital Identity to its sinister potential (such as China’s spying street lights and billboards), this Bill – whether intentional or accidental – acts as the foundation for a China-style Social Credit System.

Governments do not create large citizen data collection points for no reason. This information is valuable, not only for research purposes, but for political strategies and future policies (such as ‘incentivising’ green initiatives). Once this information starts being collated by the government against a citizen, it will become like a browser history session that cannot be cleared. While the Bill does not specifically lay out applications for Digital Identity, accompanying documents and industry articles (from banking and insurance sectors) have already begun discussing its potential.

The Trusted Digital Identity Bill 2021 cannot be read or understood as a stand-alone policy. It forms part of an extensive policy framework under the government’s 2030 digital goals laid out in the Digital Economy Strategy 2030. According to this strategy (worth $1.2 billion in the 2021-2022 Budget), Australia’s Digital Identity is intended to connect into a global digital identity economy.

In other words, the problem is not so much with the technical setup/certifications of the Digital Identity as laid out in the Bill – the issue is with the intention of the Digital Identity and that catastrophic change to both privacy and the existing separation between the economy and the government.

What is also of concern is the heightened level of control that the government seeks to wield over the direction of the economy once it transforms into largely digital entity – as stated in its goals – and therefore its motivation for the establishment of a Trusted Digital Identity. The strategy stresses that Digital Identity is aimed at keeping us ‘safe’ and recovering from a ‘Covid economy’, but as we have learned, government is poorly equipped to carry out these tasks.

Australians have to ask themselves, do they really want the government acting as an omnipresent policeman standing guard over every commercial transaction?

Should the government be able to prevent a citizen from being ‘certified’ to purchase items from a private seller (something that is not possible with cash)?

Further, do Australians want to give the government power over the economy to micromanage its future by monitoring, punishing, and rewarding transactions in the same way they have started to interfere in the ‘green’ energy market?

Also of chief concern is the reason Digital Identity has been created in the first place. The government did not come up with the Trusted Digital Identity on their own to solve the issue of outdated government databases. As stated by the policymakers in their accompanying documentation, the Trusted Digital Identity is the brainchild of the World Economic Forum and their global digital identity roadmap.

The Trusted Digital Identity is required for the Digital Economy Strategy. The following is the intention of the government strategy:

‘The digital economy is key to securing our economic future and recovery from COVID-19. The Digital Economy Strategy targets investments that will underpin improvements in jobs, productivity and make Australia’s economy more resilient.’

Then, from the Digital Identity Consultation Regulation Impact Statement, the government quotes  Shaping the Future of Digital Economy and New Value Creation directly from the World Economic Forum.

‘Further, research conducted by the WEF suggests that digital identity is essential for the growth of the digital economy more broadly encouraging digital, as well as physical engagement with public and private sector services, it has a pivotal role to play in rebooting the global economy in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic and beyond. Digital Identity uniquely positions businesses, the research concluded, to gain and maintain user trust and remain competitive, ‘…guarantee[ing] the realisation of greater economic potential…and advancing an economy that is more inclusive, equitable and stable for all’.’

And from the linked article:

‘The Platform on Digital Economy and New Value Creation helps companies leverage technology to be agile in the face of disruption and to create the new digitally enabled business models for a new normal – post-COVID, purpose driven, sustainable and inclusive. […] An estimated 70% of new value created in the economy over the next decade will be based on digitally enabled platform business models. However, 47% of the world’s population remain unconnected to the internet.’Shaping the Future of Digital Economy and New Value Creation and the Davos Agenda Digital identity Frameworks.

In How digital identity can improve lives in a post-COVID-19 world, the WEF states that, ‘To re-boot the global economy and re-connect society physically and virtually in a new reality, people will need to engage physically and digitally with public authorities and businesses.’

The World Economic Forum is encouraging domestic policymakers to ‘move quickly’ and build ‘trust’ with citizens around the secure usage of personal data, which allows extensive third parties to create digital frameworks previously forbidden by privacy laws.

‘But the potential is bigger: the possibility to safely claim who we are will impact how we live and how fast the world economy can recover – alleviating key risks highlighted in World Economic Forum’s COVID-19 Risk Outlooks Report.’

The linked Outlooks Report (tied to the Global Risks Report) seeks to keep the changes made during Covid rather than encouraging business and society to return to its in-person, normal operation. This is no doubt because the biggest winners under Covid were digital services and banks who profited off an unsustainable economic model almost entirely propped up with public money. To encourage this system would be a catastrophic error.

This report includes the header ‘An opportunity to build back better’,directly connecting the Liberal Party’s Australian Digital Identity to the hated ‘build back better’ global mantra. It also forms part of the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals and, littered through the supplementary data, are references and intentions to eventually incorporate the global Digital Identity into Climate Change policy.

‘Despite the grim economic outlook, the solidarity created by the Covid-19 pandemic offers the possibility of investing in building more cohesive, inclusive and equal societies. When it comes to the environmental agenda, the implementation of green stimulus programmes holds the potential to fundamentally change the way economies and industries operate, especially as societal behaviour change may spur more sustainable consumption and mobility habits. For businesses, the opportunity exists to accelerate a transformation towards more sustainable and digital operating models, while enhancing productivity. When it comes to the Fourth Industrial Revolution, technology has demonstrably helped societies manage crisis and provided a window into the benefits of more technology-enhanced ways of learning, working and producing – from telemedicine to logistics to the knowledge economy. There is a potential for a new era of innovation, growth and enhanced technology governance in the service of societal and environmental goals.’

To be clear, the WEF is the backbone from which the Australian government is drafting Digital Identity policy and the assumptions made by the WEF to justify their recommendations are, frankly, wrong – both historically and logically. To give one example, the need for swift digitisation is based on a prediction that nationalistic tendencies driven by competition for pandemic resources will see countries isolate themselves from the global market and sink into recession. We know from history that nations do the reverse – they expand into trade after traumatic events and the less intervention from global authorities, the better as countries find their economic niches mores quickly.

The Australian government do not challenge any of these assumptions, but rather assumed them as fact with the WEF’s recommendations littered throughout the Bill.

Part of this framework is a concept called ‘Human-centric digital identities’ – which is essentially what the Australian government is attempting to create as a form of ‘alleviation from global health risks’. The description of Trusted Digital Identity in the linked WEF policy is nearly identical to the Australian legislation.

The other WEF reference made is to Reimagining Digital Identity: A Strategic Imperative, which is more of the same except it summarises the other nations creating their own Digital Identities and includes a few worrying insights.

‘Businesses must understand that they will be required to redesign and rethink their relationships with their customers to remain competitive in a changing business landscape. As user expectations change regarding how digital identity is managed, organisations must reposition themselves regarding how they interact with their customers. And the time to act is now. The digital identity revolution has already begun.’

At which point we can point to the Australian government’s Digital Economy roadmap which says:

‘We’ll be succeeding when:

  • The significant majority of Australians over 19 are registered for myGovID or other trusted digital identity.
  • By 2030 all businesses will be digital businesses. To be a leading digital economy and society in 2030, every business needs to become a digital business.
  • Businesses can verify the digital identity of customers and suppliers with absolute confidence.
  • All transaction are electronic, integrated and secure – from registration through to employment, reporting, marketing, banking, accounting and security.

Which, if you read carefully, attempts to end anonymous cash transactions within the economy under the excuse of ‘progress, efficiency and safety’, removing the essential liberty of customers and businesses to purchase goods and services without heavy-handed oversight.

The recurring theme throughout these documents is that in order to be ‘safe’ and expand after Covid, the government must forge a new digital economy. In reality, a heavily regulated economy is less resilient and slower to recover than an old fashioned chaotic one. This is probably why a black economy in Australia is on the rise (suggested by the staggering increase in physical cash circulation) as individuals seek to recover their jobs outside the inflexible layers of cost and regulation ill-suited to a disaster. The government puts the cash increase down to pandemic hoarding, but it is far more likely that those individuals ‘locked out of the economy’ by state governments are having to find ways to survive. Instead of fixing the environment that has caused this behaviour, the government seeks further regulation to prevent it.

What’s in the Trusted Digital Identity Bill:

The Bill simply introduces itself as, ‘A Bill for an Act to establish the ‘trusted’ Digital Identity system and to provide for the accreditation of entities in relation to digital identity systems generally, and for related purposes.’

In order words, it creates a Digital Identity, sets out how other digital entities can interact with it, creates code of conduct guidelines, and puts forward some general (but by no means exhaustive) application processes, and lists penalties for failing to comply. The word ‘trusted’ is in the title to represent the ‘trusted’ accreditation process that the Bill sets out for third parties to access citizen data. Finally, the Bill sets out an Oversight Authority to monitor the system.

The vast majority of this Bill deals with the technical nature of accrediting digital businesses to interact with your data. Instead, we wish to ask if the Bill should exist as a concept.

Forgetting the more serious consequences of the Bill, does it actually achieve what it sets out to do? The answer is, ‘no’. Based solely on its primary aims, the Bill is a failure of concept.

There are two stated purposes for the Bill’s existence.

  1. Simplify access to clunky government databases for individuals and businesses.
  2. Create, stimulate, and shape a ‘Covid-safe’ economy.

Instead of fixing the government’s disjoined, outdated, and woefully error-laden databases, Digital Identity acts as a band-aid.

It creates a brand new central identity and collects information from the same broken databases. Third party applications then talk to the Digital Identity, where all the information is nicely ordered for modern systems. The Digital Identity did not fix the problem – those databases are stilling heading toward failure. Why not simply spend the billions of dollars allocated to this project to fix the master databases? Or at least fix the databases before using the mess as the foundation for Australia’s largest digital environment…

A good Bill would simplify and reduce government databases, this Bill vastly extends government-held private data into a wide range of accredited domestic and international corporations who can, upon exemption, host data on foreign servers.

This data – crucial to the safety and identity of an individual – is now collated under the Digital Identity where it is shared, used, and hosted by corporate entities for a range of unspecified reasons related to government services, research, and economic practices. The Bill even lists the potential for these services to charge citizens an access fee for their data.

The main selling point on the Digital Identity website is the time people will save.

These promises are unlikely, given the experience and difficulty with both myGovID (created by the same company given the contract for Digital Identity) and the service trouble experienced with vaccine passport certification – the Trusted Digital Identity will probably take people longer to set up and fix than the total time saved by its existence. The government’s time-saving problems do not factor in any difficulties in service which are not part of the current system.Once passed, Digital Identity will be used as a way to validate transactions in the same way that a Vaccine Passport unlocks access to previously unregulated areas.

The Bill is careful to insist that its use will remain voluntary, but the accompanying documentation implies that Digital Identity is a mandatory condition of service in the economy in the same way that vaccine passports are ‘implied’ as mandatory if you wish to continue trading.

‘Digital Identity will give Australian people and businesses a single, secure way to use government services online. Creating a Digital Identity is like doing a 100-point identification check. It removes the need to visit a shopfront with your identity documents. Digital Identity is already being used by over 2.3 million Australians and 1.2 million businesses to access over 75 government services. Digital Identity ensures personal information is securely encrypted and stored in Australia and no personal information is presented through a double blind system. The proposed new legislation for the Digital Identity system will extend these protections and standards to businesses and state and territory governments who will use the digital identity.’

And then it sets out this Digital Identity as a government-controlled protection for fraud against private digital transactions:

‘The Trusted Digital Identity Framework sets out the rules for the national digital identity scheme. This Framework will make it easier and safer for people to access online services and provide additional protections against identity crime, which is estimated to cost the economy over  $3.1 billion a year. The Government will progress legislation to enable the rollout of the Framework to the private sector and other governments. The legislation will embed privacy, security and fraud prevention mechanisms to build trust and confidence by those who choose to participate.’

And finally, from the Digital Economy Strategy:

A digital economy is characterised by online transactions and engagement – a virtual, paperless and cashless world […] This means that by 2030:

  • All businesses are digital businesses, using e-Commerce tools and new technologies to improve productivity, innovate and generate high-paying jobs.
  • All transactions are electronic, integrated and secure – from registration through to employment, reporting, marketing, banking, accounting and security.
  • Government services will all be easily and safely accessible online, saving people and businesses time and money. Government service delivery will by supported by better public data availability and sharing that is used by a highly-skilled public service to deliver more targeted policy and programs.

And for individuals:


The significant majority of Australians over 18 are registered for myGovID or another trusted digital identity.

While not explicitly stated in the Bill, if the government’s Digital Economy Strategy by 2030 is aiming for all business transactions to be digital (no cash), and those transactions require the integrated and secure Digital Identification check to validate them – then those who do not partake in the Digital Identity scheme will be effectively locked out of the economy.

The Digital Economy Strategy also states: ‘To be a leading digital economy and society in 2030, every business needs to become a digital business.’

A Central Bank Digital Currency goes hand in hand with the idea of a Digital Identity. With all of your information and money stored online, central banks or governments could turn off your access to money and society in the blink of an eye.

The last time I asked the Reserve Bank about a Central Bank Digital Currency, there seemed to be no real plans. Conveniently they are now considering it, just as the feared Digital Identity Bill proposal is being pushed by Government.

Transcript

[Chair] Senator Roberts.

Thank you. Thank you for appearing again. I’m gonna start with a sincere compliment, Mr Debelle. I’ve been impressed with your frankness and your directness and your succinctness. You convey a lot of confidence and I would also like to start by complimenting the Reserve Bank for the answers I received in the last estimates, which after examination were complete and factual. So question one, Chair: the Reserve Bank has now signed on to the International Central Bank Digital Currency Platform, Project Dunbar, and I quote, “aims to develop prototype shared platforms for cross border transactions which will allow financial institutions to transact directly with each other in the digital currencies issued by participating central banks.” Now, as I understand it, Mr Debelle, Australia will be testing this platform, along with Malaysia, Singapore, and South Africa, which suggests we have a digital currency to use, to test the platform. Where is the Reserve Bank on the development process for the Reserve Bank Digital Currency and what’s the timeframe here for testing and implementation?

Hello, pass that one to Ms Bullock, please, Senator, she’s the expert in this space. Well, has carriage of this, at least.

Thank you, Senator. So, the first thing to note is that Project Dunbar is a proof of concept, so I’d distinguish it from a pilot. Pilot is where you actually have actual real money. This isn’t a pilot, it’s actually a proof of concept. So really, what it’s about is going through the technical infrastructure you might need, the legal arrangements you might need, to patent requirements you might need to set this sort of multicurrency approach up. So there is no Central Bank Digital Currency, we don’t have one, the other central banks don’t have one, it’s purely a proof of concept, if you like, It’s a little bit of a desktop exercise with a little bit of experimentation with technical approaches to do it, so there’s no actual Central Bank Digital Currencies involved.

Okay. Thank you. Oh, sorry.

I was just gonna go on to your second question, if that’s all right.

Okay.

So, your second question was about where we are at with Central Bank Digital Currency. So, we’ve had a multiyear process in this. We’ve done some small experiments. We’ve experimented internally with the concept of a wholesale Central Bank Digital Currency. Again, it’s not real, it’s just sort of a mock-up if you like, and we’ve done that internally to see whether or not individual banks could perhaps use it for settlement between them. We’ve also expanded that fairly recently. There was a report in December, Project Atom, which was an experiment again with Commonwealth Bank, National Australia Bank, Perpetual and Consensus and ourselves. And the concept here was, again, a proof of concept. It wasn’t a pilot; a proof of concept to see whether or not a Central Bank Digital Currency, paired with tokenized syndicated loans, would actually make a more efficient way of having syndicated loans transacted through the economy. We released the report on that in December and I think it proved that there were some efficiencies in this area, but –

Excuse me, did you say there were inefficiencies?

Efficiencies.

[Roberts] Efficiencies.

Efficiencies. So, syndicated loans is a very manual process, and quite lengthy, and what the project proved was if you tokenized the syndicated loans, you had a Central Bank Digital Currency to transact amongst the various players in the syndicated loan, that actually that made that a much more efficient process. Whether or not you can do it with normal payment systems as well is another question, but we didn’t test that, so there’s that. We’re also participating, as you mentioned, in Project Dunbar with the Bank for International Settlements Innovation Hub and those three other countries, and we’ve recently formed ourselves a Central Bank Digital Currency Group in the Payments Policy Department, and we’re going to be engaging with the Digital Finance Cooperative Research Centre, which is looking at all sorts of things digital. We’re going to be engaging with them on looking at Central Bank Digital Currencies as well, so that’s a little bit of a potted history of where we’re at with our work on this.

Okay. Thank you. If a new digital currency is to be created out of electronic ledger entries, will existing amounts of cash be converted into digital dollars? The public may be confused about how this is going to work. Can the Reserve Bank please provide a simple overview of what happens after the project gets the green light? Where’s the value coming from? So when we have a cash?

What we’re assessing, Senator, really, is exactly that: their value, given we have a pretty decent payment system as it is, which includes cash, clearly, but also electronic settlement, and you sort of nailed the question, really, which is: is there value in this? Is it worth the investment at this stage or not? Michelle, I don’t know if you wanna add anything to that.

The only thing I’d add, Senator, is that there is no suggestion in which we are getting rid of cash. This concept is not to replace cash and it hasn’t even been decided that we would do it. This would be a decision not for the Reserve Bank, but for, in fact, the Government, and it wouldn’t be replacing cash, so that’s very clear.

When I was talking about the value, I wasn’t talking about the value of the process. Is it gonna be more efficient? Is it worth doing, so I appreciate your answer and that quite clearly, that’s one valid interpretation of my question, but what I was getting at was, if someone’s got so much value in Australian dollars, how will that be converted into digital currency dollars or whatever the currency is? Will they still have that purchasing value?

Sure. So the way that most central banks are looking at this around the world is that the central bank itself won’t be providing people with digital money. It will work like cash does. So at the moment, if you want cash, you go to your ATM or your bank and you withdraw some cash from your bank account. A digital currency, if we had one, would work in a very similar way. You would go into your bank and your bank would have presumably a digital wallet, or you’d have a digital wallet, and you would take some money out of your bank account and you would put it into Central Bank Digital Currency, just like cash. So you can think about it in a very parallel way.

Yes, but if someone’s got $2,000 in cash today in their bank account, will that give them the equivalent purchasing power if there’s a conversion into digital currency?

Yes. Correct. It would be exactly the same as if it was a $100 bill or $100 on your mobile wallet.

Okay. Thank you. Now the BIS is involved. So, one specific case: our foreign exchange reserves are used to settle international transactions. These will now be replaced with the Reserve Bank Digital Dollars, if it goes ahead. Is the process to simply replace the US dollars we have in reserve with US Government-issued crypto dollars or a similar value-basis digital currency?

[Debelle And Bullock] No.

[Bullock] Do you wanna take this?

Straight to the chase: no, Senator, we would still continue to hold $USD reserves in the instruments we currently hold them at, which is primarily US Treasuries.

Okay. That’s pleasing to hear. What are the risks in doing this, for example, if this was handled badly, not necessarily from the Reserve Bank, but for the people you’re dealing with overseas, if the system wasn’t tight? What are the various risks that you can foresee that need to be managed?

This is why I think there’s a lot of water to flow under the bridge before any advanced economies really have launched into this. There are obviously cyber issues. You need to make sure that the system is secure. Overseas consultations demonstrate that people are very concerned about privacy, which is a very valid concern, but by the same token you’re also concerned about a use of digital currency for criminal purposes, so there’s a balance there. Another concern, that is one that most central banks identify, is concerns about the banking system and whether or not there might be a flight of deposits, if you like, to the Central Bank Digital Currency, which would have implications for banks’ balance sheets, potentially make it easy to run on banks, if people were concerned about banks, so there’s a whole lot of financial stability risks and issues associated with it. That’s just a sample of some of the issues that need to be considered if we were going to go in this direction and have some sort of what I would call “retail” Central Bank Digital Currency.

Thank you. Two more questions, Chair. Digital or cryptocurrency is not backed by any asset. It’s literally an exercise in trust that the government can protect the value of someone’s currency. Is this the time now to start talking about getting an asset backing behind this new currency, such as gold?

Senator, just like cash at the moment, it would be a feat currency, which is to say it isn’t backed by anything. And you’re right. It’s all about trust in the institutions of the country, in the government, in the Reserve Bank, so in that sense, it would be just like cash, if we were going down this route, it would be an unbacked currency.

But it’s backed by the government’s capacity to raise revenue from its citizens, basically.

Backed by the government’s capacity to raise revenue, did you say?

Yep.

Thank you. Last question. During COVID, there’s been a hell of a lot of money spent on non-productive outcomes. As much as food and rent can be considered non-productive, they’re essential, but they’re non-productive, the outcome of long-term borrowing for short-term gain is inflation. Is spending on productive capacity: roads, railways, bridges, dams and irrigation in this recovery phase, likely to produce a lower inflation outcome across forward estimates than continuing to spend on what can only be described as economic sherbet?

I don’t know, I mean, that’s an an interesting question, Senator. I mean, I’m not sure I would draw that distinction, I think food I would regard as a pretty productive and essential service, an essential thing for people to consume, so, I mean, we build roads for a purpose, not just because, which is to satisfy people wanting to use them, and the same with food and same with shelter, so not quite sure how we can draw such a clean line between what’s productive and unproductive.

Well, perhaps, well food is essential, as I said, perhaps spending on non-productive assets: entertainment, instead of travelling overseas, people are buying new cars, that kind of thing. What I’m talking about is spending on such items that may be essential, but not producing increased wealth, could lead to inflation. That’s the risk. On the other hand, spending on something that increases productive capacity, like a dam with irrigation systems to supply increased food productivity and lower the cost of food, leaves people better off and wealthier overall. That’s what I was getting at: a productive capacity, rather than just consumption.

There is a reasonable amount of dollars investment in infrastructure at the moment, that’s increased quite a bit, both from the Commonwealth and the State Governments, so that sort of spending is absolutely happening. Again, I’m still not quite sure I would draw such a clean distinction. In the end, people consume what they want to consume and I’m not sure it’s up to us too much to tell them what’s good and bad about that, within reason.

Well, that’s a wonderful statement to hear coming into my ears now. I love that, but yeah, sorry?

I said, “I thought you’d like that.”

So what we’ve got, though, is an acknowledgement that there is money being spent on infrastructure. You’ve answered my question. I just personally believe, Chair, that we need to spend more on improving our productive capacity. Thank you very much. Again, Chair, I’d like to put on record that the Reserve Bank always answers quickly, succinctly and factually. So thank you. It’s really appreciated.

[Chair] Dr Debelle, you’ve got a fan there.

[Roberts] Yep. He has.

[Debelle] Thank you.

The Digital Transformation Agency (DTA) is meant to be the Government’s shining beacon of making things better with technology.

Instead, they have a long list of failures, from paying google to harvest government data, to abandoning cloud storage projects and dumping possibly sensitive source code into the public domain.

You have to ask, if the DTA is meant to be the Government’s leading technology agency but has such a dismal record, what hope do they have of implementing the infamous Digital Identity Bill?

Transcript

[Fechner] I’m happy. No opening statement. Thank you.

All good. Thank you. Senator Roberts, you have the call until 11:00 PM.

[Roberts] Thank you, Chair.

And then I’ll cut you off.

The Digital Transformation Agency has concluded an enterprise deal with Google in respect of Google Analytics 360. The Digital Transformation Agency charges Australian government agency websites for their Google data, which I assume is a cost-recovery exercise. How much are you paying Google for this service? Either 2021 actual or 2022 projected, please.

Thank you for the question, Senator. So the Google Analytics service is actually put in place to ensure that we actually have good information on the utilisation and feedback of government services, so it provides for the continuous improvement of our government activities. I will need to –

[Roberts] So what does it cost?

So we have our Head of Procurement here, Michelle Tuck. Can we take that number to find out what the actual costs are for Google Analytics?

[Tuck] Take it on notice?

Take it on notice.

[Roberts] Thank you. Google can obviously see all the data that you can see. After all, they just sell it back to you. On a normal private website, Google would be able to see identifying information for the website, visitor or entity, being IP address, device identification, sign-in If they are logged into Chrome, etc. Google would then store that data in the data file they already maintain for that entity. Google’s data file does not include names, but it does include locality, age, gender, employment, purchases, interests, travel, search and web history, and much, much more. Are Google adding data about private citizens who use a government website to Google’s own data records?

Senator, I’m happy to seek advice on that, but the actions of Google and those particular activities would be a subject to Google and any prevailing laws.

So, it’s quite easy for them to harvest the data because nothing precludes them from doing so?

Senator, there are aspects of data, so the DTA generally refers to the digital components of these. There are some specific data areas and they’re subject to PM&C, so potentially that question could be referred to PM&C.

Are we able to get them on notice from you?

If it’s an issue for PM&C, Senator, I’d say it would have to go on notice for them.

Thank you. Now let’s change topics to the Federal Government’s style guide. This will interest the chair. Recently the Senate rejected the use of gendered language and sent the style guide back for review. Who instructed the Digital Transformation Agency to de-gender language in the style guide?

Senator, the style guides have actually moved to be the responsibility of the Australian Public Service Commission. You need to refer those questions about the use of the style guide to them.

Thank you. So I’d have to ask them for a hard copy of it?

They’re responsible for the management of the style guides.

Okay. So let’s turn to cloud.gov.au. This was an attempt, as I understand it, to create a single standard for cloud storage of data, including websites across the whole of federal government. Did I get that right?

That was the original intention.

Okay. Original. Okay. This project was shut in 2021. And the source code for this web standard was put into GitHub, which as I understand it is a repository for code, freely accessible, where anyone can download it. Could a hacker learn anything about what could be in use in federal government websites and data servers, based on the information that they can freely obtain and contained in the GitHub files?

So Senator, the purpose of cloud.gov.au was to produce a safe and secure, and freely available to government entities, access to cloud services environments. As that capability has progressed, it was clear that the market was able to provide those services and the intent behind the security has been largely replaced with other components that we have, such as the hosting certification framework, which accredits cloud service providers to make sure that the controls that are in place for those services sit with government, so we have protections about where that data is stored, how does is transit and who has access to it. So cloud.gov.au became redundant from that purpose.

Yeah, I understand that, but apparently the source code for the web standard was put into GitHub where anybody can access it.

Senator, it’s my understanding right now that the services that are used, or used in that function, are all being decommissioned or moved onto alternative platforms.

[Roberts] But they’re already there on GitHub, which anyone can access.

Senator, GitHub is a repository for code services. It’s not necessarily the code service itself. It’s separate. It is actually the description of the language, and if it’s going into those GitHub repositories and it’s open source, meaning it’s freely available, it really is in public domain. Much of GitHub is actually contributed to by other parties other than government and it becomes a community of development services.

So why was this project cancelled?

Simply because of the transition to highly available public cloud services, the high security associated with those things, and the addition of additional controls, such as the hosting certification framework that added specific controls to make sure that government was clear where government data was stored, how it was actually moved, and where that data was being managed by others, including third parties, that it was safe and secure in those locations.

How much did this undelivered project cost across the project life or the arc, I think you call it, from January, 2018 to September, 2021?

Senator, I can take that on notice. So I commenced on October 13th, so it’s a bit before my time for those specifics.

Okay. So, okay, you and I are both scared of the wrath of the Chairman, so we’ll move on. This is not the only terminal outcome of one of Digital Transformation Agency’s programmes. May I reference the whole-of-government platform’s programme, which was retired. Once again, the source code for the six different projects under this programme was put into GitHub for anyone to download, but you’ve explained that. So my question is the same as before. No, you’ve explained that, that doesn’t matter. What was the cost of the whole-of-government platforms programme across its project arc, or life?

Senator, can I take that on notice again?

[Chair] Last question.

[Roberts] We’re getting there, Chair. [Chair] Last Question.

Okay. myGov is a joint venture between Services Australia and the Digital Transformation Agency. The app is proving problematic at best with a rating of 2.4 out of 5, which is on this graph here, so being less than half, that’s a fail by my understanding. We can see a pattern emerging here. Any attempt to modernise and standardise federal government data formats, storage and handling runs into apparently turf wars and gets terminated. Now we have the Digital Identity, and I’m leading into the question, Chair, now we have the Digital Identity, another of the Digital Transformation Agency’s projects, which will be part of life for every Australian. And in many ways it will enable control of many Australians in their lives. So a rating of 2.4 won’t cut it. How long will it take the Digital Transformation Agency to put in place the framework necessary for the Digital Identity to function at 5, not 2.4? How much will that cost, and what are your chances of success?

Senator, I think I’d like to seek a clarification on that. myGov does not currently have an app that’s in the public domain. They’re currently in a private beta for it. There is no myGov app that’s currently available.

Okay. So come to the question, then, there’s a history of failures going on in this area, digital transformation, how long will it take the Digital Transformation Agency to put in place the framework necessary for the Digital Identity to function at a rating of 5 out of 5? How much will that cost, and what are your chances of success?

So Senator, just again, to clarify, the App Store ratings generally rate the particular functions in there. So the Digital Identity is a framework and it allows multiple providers to go through. Part of that framework allows for the government to have a digital identity, and that’s the myGov ID as it currently stands. There is an app associated with that, and that app is simply about ensuring that people can enrol a Digital Identity for the government. Its actual main purpose is to provide access to safe, secure services through government via that identity in place of providing other digital credentials. So, yes, part of the aspect, but also the stepping up of credentials as well, that sits in that space, Senator.

[Roberts] Thank you, Chair.

Without cash, there is only a system of ‘government approved purchases’. Even if you don’t use cash, having it banned will mean the government can take complete control of you and access to your money at any time. The Trusted Digital Identity Bill aims to track every single purchase you make so they can cut you off whenever Government decides, this isn’t possible when you the option to use cash.

Transcript

The reason we have a Constitution is to enforce absolute boundaries and to stop politicians taking liberties with our liberties. The behaviour of government during COVID has shown everyone how quick many politicians and bureaucrats were to abuse rights and coerce citizens into undergoing unwanted medical procedures.

By its very existence, the Trusted Digital Identity Bill is a violation of our historic privacy laws and consumer protections.

The final design of the Bill and its accompanying Digital Economy Strategy 2030, involves the complete removal of cash from the Australian economy. This means that every transaction, every purchase, and every sale through the till must pass a Digital Identity check by the government.

Without cash, there is no free capitalist economy – there is only a system of ‘government approved purchases’. The Trusted Digital Identity Bill will give premiers and the Prime Minister the power to take such action at any time by locking citizens out of the economy – a threat already issued by the Victorian premier during the pandemic.

Once the public understand how much we’re going to lose under the global reset, it will be too late to unpick the laws that allowed it to happen. Just like emergency pandemic legislation, Australia will be stuck with it.

The Trusted Digital Identity Bill is a framework for oppression and control. It is a global surveillance system designed by a foreign bureaucracy for the benefit of profit-hungry corporations and power-mad politicians.

https://youtu.be/HB7E-AouvGU

The Liberals have spent $1 billion on their Digital Economy Strategy. It aims to move everyone to an “access model”, which is really a life by subscription where the World Economic Forum says you will “own nothing and be happy”. The Trusted Digital Identity Bill: https://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/1984-the-bill-the-trusted-digital-identity/

Transcript

If the World Economic Forum is meant to be a ‘conspiracy theory’ why is the Federal Liberal Party copying its policies? Scott Morrison’s ‘Trusted Digital Identity Bill’ is a copy-paste directly from the World Economic Forum’s Global Digital Identity Project – which is part of the digital transformative initiative.

It is designed to shift the global economy away from private ownership and into what the World Economic Forum calls an ‘access model’ where you own nothing and instead rent goods and services from the world’s billionaire corporations.

In other words, the goal of ‘digital identity’ is a ‘life via subscription’.

Without assets and ownership, Australians will have no power over government or the corporations that want to control their lives. In their eyes, this will help the world ‘live sustainably’, but in reality it is a form of slavery to a closed-loop economy where you have less and the rich have more. The Liberals have already spent a billion of your dollars on their Digital Economy Strategy 2030. All they need to make the global socialist dream a reality is to pass the Trusted Digital Identity Bill.