Rejecting the UN Scam

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A question I asked Minister Don Farrell back in March.

From the start, One Nation opposed the UN’s net zero policies and will continue to oppose.

Will the Uniparty fully embrace coal, oil, and gas as being essential for modern civilisation and commit to true national self-sufficiency across our entire hydrocarbon supply chain, from drilling to the petrol pump?

I doubt it!

— March | Senate Debate

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, from the start, One Nation has completely opposed the United Nations net zero scam. Only One Nation has said from the start and continues to say, ‘Scrap United Nations’s net zero.’ The Nationals say, ‘Scrap net zero by 2050.’ They support the net zero concept but want to delay implementation. The Liberals say the same. They still support UN’s net zero; they just want to drop net zero by 2050. The Liberals started net zero under Prime Minister Morrison after he’d promised at the election just 18 months earlier not to adopt it. The Nationals went along with it blindly. The Labor Party has adopted One Nation suggestions— 

Senator Canavan: Barnaby did! 

Senator ROBERTS: He now realises he was wrong, and he’s probably said so, to his credit. That shows his integrity and courage. Labor has adopted One Nation’s suggestions. We were the first to raise the looming fuel crisis back on Monday 2 March, three days after the Israelis attacked Iran. We were ridiculed for that—called far-right-wing extremists, I think—by the Labor Party. I can distinctly visualise Senator Tim Ayres over there saying that as he pointed towards me. It doesn’t bother us, because we know that he was desperate. But we thank you for adopting so many of our policies over that last four weeks, and you’re still adopting them. Thank you. Will you adopt our advice to scrap UN net zero? Will you at least acknowledge that the hydrocarbon fuels coal, oil and natural gas are essential for modern civilisation—in particular, oil for transport? Will you acknowledge that we need to be self-sufficient in the entire hydrocarbon supply chain, from drilling rig through to petrol pump?

Senator Farrell: I thank Senator Roberts for his question. I should congratulate you on your result in the South Australian elections, Senator Roberts. I know you came down and campaigned, certainly in the seat of Colton. I saw you down there with your candidate.

I have an apology to make to Senator Canavan. When I was answering one of his questions last week, I referred to the fact that, in his first outing as leader of the National Party, where he was going to take on One Nation, your candidates got 22 per cent of the vote, and I said in the Senate that the Nationals had got one per cent. I have to apologise to Senator Canavan; that was not correct. It was 0.7 of one per cent, not one per cent. So, in his first outing as leader, espousing all of the policy positions he’s just explained to this Senate, that was the result.

We do produce gas in this country, Senator Roberts, and we’ve produced it under this government. I’ve referred, in an earlier answer to Senator Canavan, to some of the places where we’re doing it. We’re doing it in the Barossa. We’re doing it in the Beetaloo. One day we might do it in Narrabri. We’re certainly increasing production in the Cooper Basin in South Australia. But we do have a commitment to net zero. That is, as you say, a commitment that both the Nationals and the coalition, at certain periods of time, have been committed to. Gas, in particular, is a transition fuel, Senator Roberts. It’s the way in which you get to net zero.

But right now we have an emergency. We need to ensure that our stocks of petrol, diesel and airline fuel continue to be available to businesses and consumers in this country. There is an emergency about dealing with this. What happens on the sea is that there are ships containing oil, petrol and airline fuel. They become available for purchase, and sometimes you’re only given 24 or 48 hours to make that purchase. The reason we have decided to use the facility of Export Finance Australia to bid for these products is that they’re a very nimble organisation, they’re very experienced in this space, they are run really well by a fellow called John Hopkins, they regularly report to me, and we see them as the best organisation to ensure that we act quickly on this.

Minister Bowen has ensured that, in combination with me and Minister King, we have taken all of the steps that we need to take to ensure that Australians continue to have access to all of those fuels that I just mentioned. But there is an urgency about this legislation. Despite everything Senator Canavan said, I’m not sure that he appreciates that urgency. We do need to get on with this, and the quicker we pass this legislation, the quicker we can get some certainty to businesses and consumers about the reliable supply of those fuels.

The TEMPORARY CHAIR (Senator Scarr): Senator Roberts, there’s only seventeen seconds left for the debate, but you have the call.

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, will you support One Nation’s initiative in recommending the conversion of gas to liquid fuels? You mentioned gas. 

The TEMPORARY CHAIR (Senator Scarr): I’m sorry, Minister, but, pursuant to the order agreed to yesterday, the time allotted on this bill has expired. 

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The $5M Vaccine Grant With Zero Accountability

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I questioned the National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) on why taxpayers are funding a new $5 million vaccine-adjuvant research centre when Australians still haven’t been given clear answers about the safety of existing adjuvants.

Their written response to my questions confirmed the project was funded simply because peer reviewers ranked it highly, saying that “there are only seven adjuvants used in license vaccines which limits the choice” and the NHMRC’s Centres of Research Excellence aims to “discover novel adjuvants to improve vaccine development.”

That’s not oversight – that’s the NHMRC waving through millions without addressing the real issues.

I asked directly whether concerns about aluminum-based adjuvants or neurological conditions played any role and they couldn’t give me an answer.

I also confirmed that any new vaccine technology developed with Australian taxpayer money WILL NOT be owned by Australians.

This is simply not good enough.

Taxpayers should not be funding research that lines the pockets of big pharmaceutical companies. Any intellectual property generated through these grants must belong to the taxpayers. Handing over valuable IP to entities to monetise at our expense provides zero return to the taxpayers.

This has to stop!

For a billion-dollar grant body, Australians deserve better than vague justifications and no clear outcomes.

Australians deserve accountability that matches the scale of the spending.

— February | Senate Estimates

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Could I turn to the National Health and Medical Research Council, please. In 2025, the National Health and Medical Research Council funded the Vaccine Adjuvant Discovery and Development Centre of Research Excellence—CRE—led by Professor Katherine Andrews at Griffith University, with $5 million as part of a $72 million CRE package. This grant focuses on discovering new adjuvants to enhance vaccine efficacy, safety and related purposes. First question: Why do we need new adjuvants? What’s wrong with the existing adjuvants?  

Prof. Wesselingh: We assess grants through a peer review process. Through that process, we utilise experts from around Australia to assess all of the grants that come to us—whether it’s for a centre of research excellence, an investigator grant or an ideas grant. The way that CRE would’ve been assessed would’ve been through that peer review process. Through that peer review process, they would’ve been elevated to the top of that scheme and would’ve been funded on the basis of their peers indicating that this was high-quality research that was likely to have a significant impact on health in Australia. We would take that on board; therefore, if they were ranked accordingly, we would fund them.  

Senator ROBERTS: So you don’t know the reasons why their peers elevated it to No. 1?  

Prof. Wesselingh: I would have to go back and look at all of the assessments by those peers. Obviously, I don’t have that directly in front of me at the moment.  

Senator ROBERTS: Could you do that on notice, please? We’d like to know why that research was approved, why we need new adjuvants, and what’s wrong with the existing adjuvants? 

Prof. Wesselingh: I’m very happy to look back at the peer review. But what I can guarantee you is that they would have been regarded as excellent research likely to produce significant impact.  

Senator ROBERTS: I’d like to know what they are.  

Prof. Wesselingh: Sure.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Adjuvants and vaccines are there to enhance the body’s immune response to the antigen. Common adjuvants include aluminium hydroxide, aluminium phosphate, amorphous aluminium hydroxyphosphate sulphate and potassium aluminium sulphate. These have been widely linked to neurological conditions spontaneously occurring after vaccination. Is this program an admission that there might be a level of truth to the link between aluminium in vaccines and autism? I guess you wouldn’t know, because you don’t know the—  

Prof. Wesselingh: So you’re asking us if the fact that we funded the CRE is an admission? We, again, funded the CRE on the basis of the scores that the CRE obtained. Those scores would indicate the quality of the science and the likelihood of obtaining high-quality evidence to improve the health of Australians.  

Senator ROBERTS: Right, and you’re going to find the reason anyway, so perhaps you could check if there is any aspect of truth to the link between aluminium in vaccines and autism as part of the reasons for developing a new adjuvant?  

Prof. Wesselingh: We can certainly look at the arguments that the CRE made and the peer review of that CRE.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. If research is successful and you find an effective adjuvant that is not neurotoxic, who will own the intellectual property the taxpayers just funded?  

Prof. Wesselingh: The way our granting system works is that the intellectual property developed by—the people who get the grants from us, which are normally medical research institutes or universities or members of those organisations, own the intellectual property. So the intellectual property would be assigned according to a university’s intellectual property rules or a medical research institute’s rules. I’m not sure, with that CRE, where they were.  

Senator ROBERTS: A $5 million synergy grant was awarded in 2024 to a multi-institutional team, including Monash University, to optimise vaccines for respiratory viruses, like influenza and RSV. This includes evaluating safety profiles to improve protection while minimising risks. If that develops new technology which achieves that objective, who will own that IP?  

Prof. Wesselingh: Again, the IP would be organised according to the rules developed by the organisations as part of that synergy grant. Synergy grants tend to have a number of organisations from around Australia, so I imagine there are multiple universities and MRIs involved in that synergy grant, and they will have developed an IP policy and the IP will be owned according to that policy.  

Senator ROBERTS: But not by the Australian government?  

Prof. Wesselingh: Not by NHMRC or by the government.  

Senator ROBERTS: We’re very concerned about the level of spending in this government. Professor Bette Liu from the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance received a $2.79 million investigator grant in 2024 to study adult vaccination programs. This explicitly includes assessing vaccine safety, identifying risks in high-risk groups and informing safer program designs. What was the outcome of that grant?  

Prof. Wesselingh: Again, if I knew the outcomes of all of the grants that I fund—we fund a billion dollars worth of grants every year—I think I’d be pretty good. I can’t tell you the outcome of that grant, but we can take that on notice.  

Senator ROBERTS: But you still think you’re pretty good?  

Prof. Wesselingh: Do I think I’m personally pretty good or the NHMRC is very good?  

Senator ROBERTS: Both! Okay, thank you very much. 

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Australians Deserve a Regulator Beyond Reproach

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I welcomed the ACCC’s decision to oppose the takeover of the insurance arm of the Royal Automobile Club of Western Australia by the IAG Group – and pushed hard on a bigger issue: the revolving door between regulators and major law firms.

I raised recent examples of senior ACCC figures moving straight into firms with competition clients, stressing that, even with separation deeds, the perception and potential for insider advantage remain.

Australians deserve a regulator beyond reproach, and senior officials shouldn’t be able to jump straight into the industries they once oversaw.

It’s time to restore integrity and end the cosy pipeline.

— February | Senate Estimates

Transcript

CHAIR: Senator Roberts.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing again.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: It’s a pleasure.  

Senator ROBERTS: It was intriguing hearing some of your comments in answer to Senator Sharma—taking on Apple and mentioning Apple Pay and some of your other comments. I just use cash, because governments have been trying to get rid of cash, so we have to protect it. Anyway, it was very brave, so thank you for your refreshing comments. I’m going to start with a compliment, actually. In October, we discussed the growing concentration in the ownership of insurance companies. You mentioned you were reviewing the takeover of the insurance arm of the Royal Automobile Club of Western Australia by the IAG Group. I note that, on 11 December, the ACCC announced the takeover had been opposed on the basis of a reduction in competition. Thank you. That’s all I wanted to say on that. I hope this is the start of the end of market concentration in insurance.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: It was based upon a careful analysis of the market conditions in Western Australia. It is possible that transaction will be brought back to us under the mandatory merger notification regime. The parties did foreshadow that when we announced the opposition under the informal regime. So it may be reassessed.  

Senator ROBERTS: Tonight’s line of questioning is about a potential revolving door of staff between the ACCC and private legal firms. Are there restrictions on someone who is on the ACCC payroll, especially the executive, leaving and immediately taking a position in the business they may have just been regulating at ACCC.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: We require the entry into a separation deed that—  

Senator ROBERTS: What does that mean?  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: They enter into an agreement with the ACCC, which is a binding, enforceable agreement, to firstly preserve the confidentiality of the information that has been received and also to continue to observe obligations that applied under the employment in relation to conflict of interest. We did, in one case, specify a period of required leave before employment could be taken up in a private law firm, but we look at that question—beyond the general obligations in relation to conflict of interest and preservation of confidential information—on a case-by-case basis.  

Senator ROBERTS: Is signing that deed a requirement that the prospective employee must agree to before signing up?  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: Yes. Employees are obliged to do so, and commissioners enter into a code which, during the term, obliges us to comply with all statutory obligations and legal obligations and also to enter into that separation agreement upon leaving.  

Senator ROBERTS: That relies on trust. It would be very difficult to enforce it, because you don’t know what’s happening in the new employer’s offices.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: We have some observation because we see who comes before us. But, yes, we do not know what is being said.  

Senator ROBERTS: The Australian Financial Review has reported on this topic, and I’m considering legislation to stop politicians and senior bureaucrats leaving and going to work for a company they were just regulating. This practice is too commonplace. ACCC Commissioner Liza Carver—is that how you pronounce her name?  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: Yes.  

Senator ROBERTS: She left in May 2025, halfway through her term, and went to work for Herbert Smith Freehills. Is that correct?  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: It is correct.  

Senator ROBERTS: Did you address this move at the time, in respect of the perception—and I’m sure this was a false perception—that HSF bought off an effective commissioner with a large job offer?  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: I think that is an incorrect perception, and Ms Carver did sign a separation agreement.  

Senator ROBERTS: Commissioner Carver was the enforcement committee chair for the 2023-24 ACCC prosecution of BINGO bins. BINGO bins were represented by Herbert Smith Freehills. Bingo lost and were fined $30 million. In the Sigma Healthcare and Chemist Warehouse merger—  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: Sorry; just one moment. I should note that, to my knowledge, though it was resolved before I became chair, Ms McDonald would know Miss Carver was conflicted and did not participate in the consideration of BINGO matters when she came to the ACCC. 

Senator ROBERTS: Okay, thank you. In the Sigma Healthcare—Chemist Warehouse merger, Carver as deputy chair of the Mergers Review Committee participated in merger assessments in that period. The merger was approved in November 2024. Herbert Smith Freehills advised Chemist Warehouse—I’m not suggesting misconduct in any way by any party, but I am saying the capacity for corruption exists in these arrangements. I think you’re acknowledging that.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: We have a very clear and very strict conflict policy. Commissioners are required to disclose conflicts of all work that has been done, if they have been in private practice when they join the ACCC, that results, depending upon the extent of the seniority. If it’s a one-off transaction, it’s at one end of the spectrum; if it’s continued advising, it’s at another. If at the continued-advising level, that person will be conflicted and not have involvement in matters for that company for a number of years while at the ACCC. But, if a clear disclosure is given, the chair receives advice on it from our general counsel and our CEO, and I then take a recommendation to the commission, and we decide and record in a register the treatment of that conflict. So we take that very seriously. Frequently, for the initial period, when commissioners join, if they have been in private practice, they will be absented from a number of matters. They leave meetings, they don’t participate at all in the deliberations, they don’t receive papers, and they do not then participate in decision-making.  

Senator ROBERTS: Of course, I didn’t think of that, but there are potential conflicts entering ACCC as well as departing from ACCC.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: There are. There is an objective to bring in highly skilled and experienced people. We have many highly skilled and experienced people who have worked in the public service throughout their career, and they are significant—they are the majority of contributors in the ACCC, there is no doubt—but we also bring in and are keen to attract appropriate people with skill levels, and that requires careful management.  

Senator ROBERTS: I suppose it’s small, but there may be some people who want to get into ACCC so they can get out again later and use their contacts. It’s always a possibility.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: It’s a possibility. We do seek through our legal arrangements in the separation deed to manage this, but it’s a possibility.  

Senator ROBERTS: Jennifer Barron was promoted to general counsel for merger reform in early 2025—this is my last question—with a major task on the books: preparation for merger law changes. In late April 2025, King & Wood Mallesons announced her appointment as a partner in their national competition team in Sydney, a team which does merger cases. The law says this person can’t use direct knowledge of an upcoming event at the new company, but they can use any other insider information to make themselves a valuable new employee. Is there anything being done about that?  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: Ms Barron also entered into an agreement undertaking ongoing obligations to preserve confidential information.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you very much.  

Ms Cass-Gottlieb: My pleasure.

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Fatal Flaws, Zero Charges

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A Comcare investigation alleged that the Department of Defence committed serious workplace health and safety breaches. Defence knew the “TopOwl” helmet displays could show incorrect altitudes yet overrode internal systems anyway, sending pilots into low-altitude, night-time conditions.

Why did the Commonwealth prosecutor decline to press charges? Surely they should release their legal reasoning to give the victims’ families closure.

Senator Farrell acknowledged the tragedy and confirmed that Comcare handed its investigation findings over to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions. However, he declined to provide further details or release the prosecutor’s legal reasoning, stating that independent investigations by the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force and the Queensland Coroner are still active. The government maintains it is inappropriate to comment on or interfere with these ongoing processes.

September 2025 | Question Time

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: My question is to the Minister representing the Attorney-General, Senator Farrell. We remember Captain Daniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class Two Joseph Phillip Laycock and Corporal Alexander Naggs. Minister, the Comcare investigation into the fatal Taipan Defence helicopter crash in the Whitsundays, released in response to my order for the production of documents, revealed the national health and safety investigator alleged serious breaches of workplace health and safety laws by the Department of Defence. There has been no explanation for why the Commonwealth prosecutor did not lay charges, despite these clear findings. Minister, given this new information, will the government release the Commonwealth prosecutor’s reasons for not pressing charges, despite the allegations from Comcare to give the families of the crash victims closure and ensure that these allegations are properly tested in court? 

Senator Farrell: I thank the senator for his question. This issue obviously is an issue concerning the Attorney-General, but, as you have said, Senator, we do recognise and pay tribute to the fallen MRH-90 aircrew who were lost in Lindeman Island on 28 July 2023. As to the specifics of your question, Comcare is the independent federal work health and safety regulator responsible for monitoring and enforcing compliance with the Commonwealth Work Health and Safety Act. In July 2023, Comcare began an investigation of potential work health and safety offences relating to the fatal crash which you referred to in your question. The investigation focused on the Department of Defence’s duty owed to workers under the Commonwealth Work Health and Safety Act. Comcare conducted a thorough investigation and have provided their findings to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions. There are ongoing independent investigations on this matter by the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force and the Queensland coroner, who is also supported by the Queensland police. As these investigations are ongoing, it would be inappropriate to comment on them at this stage. 

The PRESIDENT: Senator Roberts, first supplementary? 

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, the clarity of these Comcare documents provides a real justification to waive the immunity on legal advice and understand why this case was not progressed on behalf of the victims’ families. Do you accept there are genuine grounds to understand why? Will the government release the reasons why the prosecutor chose not to follow the advice Comcare provided? 

Senator Farrell: I thank Senator Roberts for his second supplementary question. I don’t believe the Attorney-General does believe that in these circumstances. There are certain relatively fundamental principles that apply in all these cases where further investigations are being undertaken. We feel great compassion for the families of the people who were lost in this terrible accident. There are investigations underway. I think the Senate ought to leave those investigations to the appropriate authorities to make a final determination of the issue. I think that’s the appropriate course of action in these circumstances. 

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30,000 Fake Degrees Stripped

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These questions are directed at the Australian Skills Quality Authority (ASQA) where I wanted to get clear answers on the scale of misconduct within our vocational education and training (VET) sector, and to find out exactly what is being done to shut down rogue Registered Training Organisations (RTOs).

As of late 2025, ASQA had cancelled 16 critically non-compliant providers, issued notices of intent to cancel credentials to over 36,600 individuals, and ultimately stripped more than 30,000 people of improperly issued qualifications.

My primary focus remains on criminal accountability for blatant scams, such as RTOs selling qualifications for cash. To ensure these operators face justice, ASQA is actively sharing intelligence with the Fraud Fusion Taskforce, including the ATO, ASIC, and the ACIC, and passing critical financial details to law enforcement.

We must ensure these rogue operators cannot simply close up shop and re-enter the market under a different name.

At the same time, any student caught purchasing fake credentials must be deported.

— February | Senate Estimates

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing tonight. Good evening. My question is pretty brief. I understand that, by the end of 2025, ASQA deregistered 11 critically non-compliant registered training organisations and 31,000 qualifications they had issued, affecting 25,000 people. Is this accurate? Is it the latest data?  

Ms Rice: The latest data is that, as at 31 December 2025, we have cancelled 16 critically non-compliant providers. We have issued notices of intent to cancel qualifications and/or statements of attainment to more than 36,600 individuals. Of that figure, we have cancelled the qualifications and/or statements of attainment of just over 30,000 individuals.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thirty thousand people. How many qualifications? Roughly 37,000?  

Ms Rice: Sorry, no. It is 36,600. We’ve issued a notice of intent to individuals.  

Senator ROBERTS: That is in addition to the 30,000 you’ve cancelled?  

Ms Rice: No, sorry. It is a subset. It is 36,600. Of that 36,600, just over 30,000 we have actually cancelled. That is as at 31 December 2025.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Your enforcement team investigated 189 serious matters involving 154 providers with 74 per cent relating to serious fraud. Wouldn’t they all be committing fraud? They are handing over a certificate that they knew was improperly issued and kept the money the student paid for the tuition. Shouldn’t they all have been charged with fraud?  

Ms Rice: Those are investigations on foot. The current data in relation to that is we have, I believe, 201 serious matters currently under investigation relating to 136 providers. The difference in there is because we also have serious matters under investigation in relation to non-RTOs or individuals or joint investigations with other partner agencies or law enforcement. I guess it is pre-emptive. We certainly have concerns about fraud in relation to all of those matters, but they are all at various stages of investigation.  

Senator ROBERTS: You can’t categorise them yet?  

Ms Rice: No. That’s right.  

Senator ROBERTS: So I’m on the right track. I can see the cancellations in the CRICOS panel.  

Ms Rice: Yes.  

Senator ROBERTS: Where are the charges for fraud on the owners, managers and administrators of these companies? 

Ms Rice: That’s a good question, Senator. We have undertaken a number of civil and criminal prosecutions or worked certainly with the CDPP. We don’t bring those matters ourselves.  

Senator ROBERTS: You don’t run them yourselves?  

Ms Rice: No. The Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions does. We provide a brief around some of those matters. In many of these cases, we have certainly made adverse findings from a fit and proper person perspective as part of the investigations. That is certainly relevant in order to, again, work with other partner agencies on the implications of that. It is also important in terms of preventing their re-entry into the VET sector. But it remains an ongoing program of work in relation to the individuals associated with this work.  

Senator ROBERTS: Once it is completed, the names will come out?  

Ms Rice: Typically, there will be names associated with the cancellation decisions that we’ve—  

Senator ROBERTS: I mean the officers of companies—administrators, managers—will be exposed?  

Ms Rice: That’s right. We work closely with ASIC and other regulators from that perspective, including the ATO.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Some of the RTOs were running obvious scams. One sold the qualifications for cash. How many others were dealing in cash? Was any of this reported to the ATO for tax fraud?  

Ms Rice: Certainly in all of the matters we have dealt with in this space, we have shared our intelligence and information with our Fraud Fusion partners, which includes the tax office.  

Senator ROBERTS: What partners did you call them?  

Ms Rice: The Fraud Fusion Taskforce partners.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. What is to stop these people opening up another RTO ad running the same thing but this time different, having learned how not to get caught?  

Ms Rice: Well, Senator, we are certainly very alert to the risk of individuals re-entering the market. That is where we have been particularly focused on including the reforms to the fit and proper person requirements so that we can be alert to individuals as much as entities seeking—  

Senator ROBERTS: Do you track individuals?  

Ms Rice: Yes, we do. We’ve also been uplifting our focus of assessment on market entrants. It remains a significant area of focus for us. We’re also alert to it, though, as I mentioned earlier, in relation to the change of ownership of RTOs.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Did you seize any money from the fraudulent RTOs as proceeds of crime?  

Ms Rice: No, Senator. That would be for law enforcement.  

Senator ROBERTS: That is what I expected. Did you report it to the police?  

Ms Rice: Again, I guess we have certainly informed our Fraud Fusion partners about—  

Senator ROBERTS: Who are they?  

Ms Rice: There’s 22, I think, Fraud Fusion partners. It certainly includes the ATO, ASIC, the ACIC, NDIA and our portfolio department in DEWR. I can certainly provide you with the—  

Senator ROBERTS: So basically, other government departments?  

Ms Rice: That’s right. I can certainly provide you on notice with the list of members and the terms of reference for the taskforce.  

Senator ROBERTS: If you could, please. Why not the police? That would put these criminals behind bars.  

Ms Rice: Well, certainly in some cases, Senator, we’ve worked with state law enforcement in relation to some of those matters. If it would assist, Senator, I’m happy to come back to you on notice with some more of the specifics from that perspective.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. This is my last question. Has the Education Legislation Amendment (Integrity and Other Measures) Bill 2025 that was passed last year made it easier to deal with rogue RTOs, or is it too early to tell?  

Ms Rice: It’s a good question, Senator. I think it is part of a suite of integrity measures. Together with the other measures, it has certainly helped to ensure greater alignment between the two pieces of legislation that we deal with the most in the ESOS Act and the NVR Act. It has certainly ensured consistency between those two acts from an integrity perspective. So we’re working through the implementation of that and certainly supportive of those changes. 

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Chair, I want to put it on the record that for the second time today I’m going to compliment someone for the answers they’ve put—prompt, clear and concise. Thank you so much.  

Ms Rice: Thank you, Senator.  

Senator ROBERTS: It’s good to see someone on top.

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The Toxic Culture in ADF Leadership

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Right now, the top brass in the Defence Force is avoiding responsibility, and the Labor government is letting them get away with it. Why hold a Royal Commission into veteran suicide or an inquiry into honours and awards if the government is just going to ignore the findings?

One Nation proudly stands with Senator Jacqui Lambie’s urgent motion.

We are calling on the government to hold the top brass accountable; adhere to legal and moral obligations to our ADF members; and ensure no ADF member is denied legal protections or access to justice just because they are serving overseas.

It’s time to end sexual discrimination and ensure every man and woman in uniform is protected under the law.

It’s time to fix this problem.

— March | Senate Speech

Transcript

Senator Roberts: I thank Senator Lambie for moving this motion. The Australian Defence Force, as Senator Paterson has just said, protects us and it relies upon its people to do so, and we need to protect the Australian Defence Force people.

One Nation supports getting this on the record and noted urgently—urgently! I agree with Senator Gallagher; this place is a shambles, and the Labor government is making it even worse. Labor is destroying formal motions. We saw yesterday a stunt persecuting and denying Pauline Hanson justice that was cooked up days in advance. It was in the media. So, yes, we agree with you; this place is a shambles. The top brass in the Defence Force is avoiding responsibility and that is what Senator Lambie is after here.

Why have a royal commission into veteran suicide, why have an inquiry into honours and awards and just ignore both of them—ignore everything—and just let the top brass run? We need to hold the top brass accountable. 

As I read this motion, Senator Lambie is calling the government to immediately abandon this position, adhere to its legal and moral obligations to ADF members and ensure that no ADF members are denied legal protections or access to justice because they were serving outside of the Australia at the direction of the Commonwealth. She just wants women to be protected. She wants all people in the Defence Force to be protected. The key issue here is sexual discrimination and an answer from the government to fix this problem regardless of whether it goes to court.

We support Senator Lambie. 

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Did Agencies Fail to Do Their Job?

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We know that no new laws would’ve stopped the Bondi atrocity. The real issue is why ASIO, the AFP and NSW Police didn’t act on the warnings they already had.

I asked the Official Secretary, Ms Anne Sheehan, of the Royal Commission on Antisemitism and Social Cohesion how a terrorist on an ASIO watchlist was still able to get a firearms licence, what surveillance was actually happening, and why critical intelligence wasn’t shared.

The commission confirmed these failures will be scrutinized – including whether agencies simply didn’t do their job.

Australians deserve a Royal Commission that delivers real answers and a safer future for everyone.

Transcript

CHAIR: Senator Roberts?  

Senator ROBERTS: The commission found that no further legislative measures would have prevented the Bondi atrocity, but what could have been done by either ASIO, AFP or New South Wales police that could have prevented this atrocity?  

Ms Sheehan: In relation to the interim report, I’d note that we commenced our second hearing block today, which is expected to run for up to three weeks. The interim report identified that there are a number of issues that needed to be further examined during this next hearing block, and that’s what we’re doing at the moment. Other than what recommendations that the commission has made that are in the interim report itself, we need to wait and see what comes out of this hearing block.  

Senator ROBERTS: I can understand that. When will we find out? Is it in the next interim report?  

Ms Sheehan: If the commissioner determines that another report is required before the final report—there’s a final report that’s due by 14 December—it’s open to the commissioner to issue other recommendations or another report along the way if she considers it appropriate to do so. It’s too early to say whether it would be needed to do that, but it’s something that can be done.  

Senator ROBERTS: I can understand your sensitivity about this, and I can understand that a lot of people will be anxious to find out why ASIO, the AFP and the New South Wales police didn’t take action. Will the commission consider how one of the terrorists got a clearance to purchase a firearm when the person had been on a watchlist with ASIO?  

Ms Sheehan: In this hearing block, the commission is considering term of reference C, which goes to the circumstances in the lead-up to the Bondi attack. There will be a range of issues considered in that hearing block, some of which will be in public, and some will have to be held in closed session, either to avoid prejudicing the criminal trial or because it’s dealing with classified information.  

Senator ROBERTS: This may be another sensitive question. Were ASIO or the AFP aware that a firearms licence had been issued to one of the terrorists by the New South Wales weapons licensing branch?  

Ms Sheehan: That really goes to the substance of matters that the commission might be looking at. I couldn’t answer that.  

Senator ROBERTS: Will the commission consider what level of surveillance was directed to the murdering terrorists when they were already on ASIO’s radar?  

Ms Sheehan: Broadly, the factors that the commission is considering during this hearing block go to the terrorism threat level, the security environment in the lead-up to the attack, and the conduct of security, intelligence and law enforcement agencies relevant to the attack. I think that goes to the issue that you’ve just raised. It will also look at the security arrangements for the Chanukah by the Sea event, and how intelligence about individuals known to authorities is utilised and shared between agencies to then inform decisions made by security, intelligence and law enforcement agencies, including, for example, how individuals are monitored and how decisions in respect of firearms licence applications are made. Yes, those things will be looked at.  

Senator ROBERTS: The commission will consider if any agency did not perform their duties to protect Australians. That’s clear.  

Ms Sheehan: The commission will be looking at the conduct of intelligence and law enforcement agencies in relation to those issues I’ve outlined.  

Senator ROBERTS: Are you familiar with the letter from the royal commission to Gab, in the United States?  

Ms Sheehan: I don’t think so, no.  

Senator ROBERTS: The commission sent the social media company Gab, in the United States, a letter. From what the owner of Gab posted on social media, it’s not possible to get a clear idea of what your intent was. Can you please explain what that letter was all about? Do you want me to read the letter?  

Ms Sheehan: I don’t have that letter, so I think I would have to take it on notice.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Your letter included a statement that failure to comply with the notice carried a criminal penalty of 12 months in prison. Is it accurate to threaten a US citizen in the United States with a criminal prosecution under Australian law?  

Ms Sheehan: I don’t have that correspondence. I think it’s best if I take that on notice.  

Senator ROBERTS: Gab have used the United States first amendment as a defence to such actions in the past, including from our eSafety Commissioner. Could you tell me, on notice, why you’d take the action when you know the US constitution precludes you from taking that action.  

Ms Sheehan: I’ll take that on notice as well—once I’ve seen the correspondence.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you.  

CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Roberts, for your efficiency in asking those questions. 

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Australia Day Council Restores Flag

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At the February Senate Estimates, I raised concerns that the Australian Flag was absent from The Australia Day Council’s website.

I am pleased to see that it has now been restored.

Our flag is a symbol of our shared values, our democracy and our monocultural society.

Displaying it proudly reminds us of all that we can be united under one flag.

Transcript

CHAIR: We will head straight to questions.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for being here tonight. Senator Ayres, you had better be ready for a long session.  

Senator Ayres: I’m all ears.  

Senator ROBERTS: At the last estimates, I asked you why the Australia Day Council did not have an Australian flag on their website. I’m pleased to see that you now have an Australian flag. Thank you. Well done. It’s good to see.  

Mr Ashurst: I would like to say thank you, Senator. As the interim CEO, once that was brought to my attention, as a former soldier myself, I found that was very important to rectify.  

Senator ROBERTS: That is gratifying to hear. Thank you. I note that you have removed the flash screen acknowledgement of country and instead displayed the Aboriginal flag in your header, which is a fair compromise that I hope leads to further engagement with Australia Day by the Aboriginal community.  

Mr Ashurst: Yes, Senator. It was a deliberate choice in accordance with normal government convention to display not only the Australian national flag but also the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flag. We obviously are aiming for Australia Day and the Australian of the Year awards to be inclusive as much as possible and be representative of our entire nation and the make-up of our entire nation.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. That’s all. 

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