Transcript
And now on Marcus Paul in the Morning, Senator Malcolm Roberts.
[Marcus Paul]
All right, welcome back. At 19 to eight, 19 to seven in Queensland. Malcolm, good morning!
[Malcolm Roberts]
Good morning, Marcus. How are you?
[Marcus Paul]
No bad at all, not bad. How are things in Canberra?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Foggy.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Because we didn’t get much sleep last night, we debated the cash ban, the cashless debit card until gee, I don’t know, I guess 12:30, something like that.
[Marcus Paul]
And you still didn’t come up with the right result?
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, we did, mate, we did. We’ve gotta protect taxpayers as well as welfare recipients-
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah?
[Malcolm Roberts]
And vulnerable kids in in some of these communities.
[Marcus Paul]
True, true.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And then that’s, so I’ve got dual responsibility, and that’s what we did. We looked after the taxpayer-
[Marcus Paul]
I understand.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And people who are receiving welfare.
[Marcus Paul]
Are you not concerned like I am, Malcolm, that this will give a green light to the government in the future to privatise our welfare system?
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, I’m not concerned about privatising welfare. I don’t think that’ll happen. It’s just too-
[Marcus Paul]
Well, this is exactly, what is this?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Too great a responsibility.
[Marcus Paul]
But hang on, Malcolm. This is exactly what is happening. In the guard-
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, it’s not.
[Marcus Paul]
Well, of course it is, Indue, who do you think Indue was operated by?
[Malcolm Roberts]
That’s the people operating the actual transfer of the cash, but the welfare system is still under the federal government.
[Marcus Paul]
Yes, but we’ve outsourced it to, oh, I dunno, to a mob that apparently is linked to the Liberal Party and donate to the Liberal Party. And we’ve got, what, when does it, since when does the federal government take advice from a mining magnate?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Now, now you’re onto something. That’s, there are questions we’re going to be asking because I’m not at all happy about that arrangement. We haven’t seen that, that hasn’t been transparent, mate, and I think you’ve got a very good question there. But this is a trial and as trials go, we learn things and then it becomes more and more flexible, so we’ve gotta change the trial in certain ways as we learn and that’s been done, and I think it’s been done in a very responsible way. But yeah, the question’s about who runs it, that is it.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, all right, but don’t you think, Malcolm, that it’s, you know it’s painting a lot of people with the same brush. I mean, we’ve been very critical of the government in relation to the Brereton Report and essentially just saying that, oh, well, you know, and we’ve got the minister doubling down now over the last 24, 48 hours on alleged atrocities in Afghanistan.
And you know, they’re talking about pulling meritorious citations from the 3,000 people who served, even though only a fraction of them, not even at a tiny minute percentage, have been alleged of these atrocities. And again, they’re all being branded with the same brush. Not everybody who’s on welfare, even in these regions where it’s being trialled, Sudener and otherwise, not everybody on these welfare cards drinks, takes drugs, or spends money on gambling.
What happens if they wanna go to the local markets? What happens if they need to get cash out to, I dunno, buy something at the corner store because they won’t take the Indue card?
[Malcolm Roberts]
These are good questions, and that’s what the purpose of the trial is, to understand how to resolve that. But you know, there are various proportions of cash in some of the trials, it’s 50:50 cash and credit and card. In others, it’s 80:20, 20% cash. But we have to remember that the future of Australia is literally at stake here because we’re having kids grow up with no food. How can they be educated? How can they survive? How can they grow into in the future leaders of our country, future leaders of our communities-
[Marcus Paul]
Fair enough.
[Malcolm Roberts]
With that experience? This is really about a very humanitarian approach, anyway.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, I get that and look, I’m not, I don’t, I don’t have an issue or a problem with the thought behind it. Of course, we need to try and protect children. We need to ensure they’re receiving everything they need to get the best start in life and to live up to their potential. I worry that it’s just a one size fits all approach and that some people who genuinely, and I’ve received correspondence from many people who are on this card, saying that, you know, it’s unfair.
I feel like a criminal and, you know, people look at me when I produce this card at the local shopping centre, and I can’t, you know, anyway. But I guess that’s discussions for another time because it’s now been extended for two years and the trials will continue. Am I right in saying that perhaps they’re looking at doing it in the Hunter in the Newcastle region?
[Malcolm Roberts]
I don’t know where they’re looking at doing it. It was extended into Cape York and other parts of the territory there. They’re making changes to some of the ways of operating, the ways and distributing it.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, true.
[Malcolm Roberts]
So, you know, it comes out in the trial markets. Now, I’ll give the government, remember that some of this was implemented by the Rudd, Gillard government, some of it was foreshadowed by the Howard government. But the most important thing I think of all to remember is that these were done as a request to help income management, to protect kids, to protect families, especially in the territory and in parts of Queensland.
So, you know, and we all have a responsibility to make sure that the taxpayer’s money is used wisely and not used for, you know, booze and gambling and drugs.
[Marcus Paul]
Well, I think we all agree on that. All right, speaking of cash money, $10,000 cash ban is dead, dead, dead. That’s a big win.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, very big win. We moved that motion to remove that cash ban bill, the government’s cash ban bill, from the Senate legislation list. And you may remember that when that was introduced quietly, it was my office in particular that raised the hell about that.
And we got an alliance from right across the coal, the crossbench senators, and then we attacked the Labor Party on it, we went to Stephen Jones, the shadow minister for finance in the Labor Party, and still, the Labor Party passed it in the lower house along with the Liberals, a lot of things happened in parliament with Labor and Liberal working together.
And these things that are hurting, hurting people, everyday Australians, especially rural people who can’t get access to cash, mate, and especially all the people.
[Marcus Paul]
All right.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And so what happened was we actually got it sent to a committee in the upper, in the Senate, and then it came out of the committee, there were a whole list of serious problems about it, but the committee still, because it was dominated by Labor and Liberals, still recommended passing the bill. But we created such a fuss that it actually became an embarrassment and the government, I think, was relieved to have us push it off.
[Marcus Paul]
Well, good because cash is legal tender and it should never be refused by merchants. But Woolworths have announced some stores will no longer accept cash. I mean, this war on cash being used in our country needs to stop, Malcolm.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, you’re absolutely right. And that’s what we’ve been pointing out. We’ve got a fabulous response to the petition we started on our Facebook page, Marcus. And it’s very important to understand that the cash ban bill was binned as a result of a very, very strong wave of of public support for getting rid of that cash ban.
[Marcus Paul]
Yes, all right, the tensions with China. Is it just a trade spat? Or is there more to this, do you think?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Much more to it, and it really points to our governance in this country under both Labor and Liberal and the Nationals. Because China is a totalitarian communist party that’s leading that country and they’re just bullies. And bullies go for the weak link. And so, we must stand up to it, but why are we considered weak?
When if you look at China, we export our iron ore and coal to China so that they can make wind turbines and solar panels. They come back to Australia, they export wind turbines and solar panels to our country. We then subsidise the construction of solar generators and wind turbines, and we subsidise that and that drives up our electricity prices.
So we end up exporting jobs to the Chinese, because a lot of the construction companies on the unreliables, on the alternatives to coal-fired power stations, that was the solar and the wind, they’re Chinese-owned. So the Chinese are making profits out of our raw materials and they’re destroying, they’re not destroying, but our government, state and federal, are destroying our electricity sector.
And Marcus, the fundamental thing with electric, with manufacturing these days, and we want a recovery from COVID, and go beyond that is electricity prices. Electricity prices are greater in the bigger cost in most manufacturing than Labor. So what we’re doing is we’re destroying our manufacturing sector and some of our agricultural sector and we’re subsidising the Chinese to do it. I mean, but that’s, the Chinese are not doing anything wrong there, we’re the bunnies-
[Marcus Paul]
Well, we’re the ones who have allowed it, yes.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, that’s right, and what the Chinese can see is that they have signed a Paris agreement commitment that says they will do nothing, and they can see us. They can see us signing over our sovereignty to the UN in so many areas now since 1975, that’s 45 years, half a century. And they’re thinking these people, the Australians, contradict their own values. They destroy their own sovereignty. What is the matter with these people?
They’re vulnerable, they’re weak. And our governments under Labor, Liberal, and Nationals have been absolutely pathetic now for around 45 years. Ever since we signed that stupid Lima Declaration that by Whitlam’s Labor government in 1975 and it was ratified the following year by Fraser’s Liberal-National government. I mean, they’re selling out our country and the Chinese can see that, and they can see we’re weak and gutless, and they just running over the top of us. They think that they can bend us.
[Marcus Paul]
All right, well, speaking of maybe the Chinese running over the top of us, as you’ve put it, Keswick Island, just off the coast of-
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes.
[Marcus Paul]
We’ve got the Queensland government signing a lease with China Bloom until 2096 for 117 hectares. They wanna build a tourist resort to accommodate some 3,000 people. And it would appear that locals are not involved in this process. They’re not allowed to access their beach, their jetty has gone. People who were renting there have been turfed off the island with just given 48 hours to leave. Is this Australia or where are we?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Exactly, this should be Australia, but it’s not under the Queensland Labor government and under the federal Liberal-National government. And the important thing here to remember is that some of these places on Keswick Island are public places, public spaces, and what the Chinese are doing, the Chinese owners are denying Australians access to those public spaces, that is wrong. And we’re gonna raise hell about this.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, well, I’ve seen the stories and there’ve been some good reports on this. I can’t believe that we allow ownership by overseas interests to be able to, isn’t a lot of this land national park?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, that’s correct. And they denying people access to that. You know that, Pauline and I raised an amendment in a bill that improves foreign investment review board control.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah.
[Malcolm Roberts]
We raised the need to put tighter controls on things in a national interest, the national interest test.
[Marcus Paul]
That’s right.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Being one of the tests for giving others, giving foreigners control over some of our assets. And that was turned down, pulling over the only ones, Labor, Liberal, Centre Alliance, Greens, National Party all voted against putting that national interest as a test for firms. The other thing, Marcus, is that they even rejected our amendment to have a register of foreign ownership of water.
[Marcus Paul]
Oh, well, yes, we’ve gone through that in New South Wales with the shooters and fishers, I mean, poor Helen Dalton, our warrior, water warrior, who’s a frequent caller on this program’s been trying to get a fully transparent water register up in New South Wales for God knows how long, but the, you know the Nationals, who are supposed to be looking after people in the bush, don’t want a bar of it, including Melinda Pavey, the water minister.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, it seems to me the Nationals are looking after farmers in the northern parts of New South Wales. And there’s unlimited floodplain harvesting. And you know, that needs to be regulated.
In Queensland, it is regulated, and Cubbie Station, even though it’s been vilified, has done an absolutely marvellous job, highly, highly responsible, the way it does it. But northern New South Wales, they’re just tearing the guts out of the water. And that’s, you know, what happens, Marcus, is that the northern basin, the Murray-Darling Basin, is quite different from the southern.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, of course.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And the southerners pay when the north can’t deliver water because the northern areas are intermittent water providers. And so, the southerners always end up paying. But the other thing that’s happening is the South Australians are basically telling lies about what’s happened to water in their state.
They have destroyed their environment in the Coorong through their own stupid policies, and they’re expecting people in New South Wales, Queensland, and Victoria to pay the price. And then when the water doesn’t come down from the floodplain harvesting in northern New South Wales, the southerners in southern New South Wales and northern Victoria, they’re paying, they’re paying dearly. Very, very serious issue.
[Marcus Paul]
All right, Malcolm, always good to chat back. We’ll catch up again next week.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Have a good weekend. Thanks Marcus.
[Marcus Paul]
Thank you and all of this, One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts on the programme. Okay, four and a half minutes away from eight o’clock news on the way. Marie, are you there?
