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Transcript

[Marcus Paul] Good morning, mate.

[Malcolm Roberts] Good morning Marcus, how are you?

[Marcus Paul] All right, as a Queensland Senator, are you going to welcome the 2032 Olympic games to Brisbane, the Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast with open arms?

[Malcolm Roberts] If they ever get here, mate, once the decision is made that’s it. Of course I welcome people here, but I abhor the decision from Annastacia Palaszczuk. It’s an absolutely terrible decision. We’ve got productive capacity, needed investment across our state, and across our country, and they’re gonna blow it on a festival? To get her votes? No this is rubbish, it’s nonsense.

[Marcus Paul] All right. So, but you concur with what the boss says, Pauline Hanson, that’s you know, we could do without spending the billions of dollars that it’ll cost to run the 2032 games in Brisbane. Well, I mean, they’ve been announced, they’re coming to Queensland, so I guess I dunno, we need to just make sure the government doesn’t blow out the cost, I guess, I dunno.

[Malcolm Roberts] Well, Marcus, how did Brisbane win anything? How did we win anything? No one else wanted these damn games. We’ve got, the Commonwealth games was a flop, because of the way the labour state government mismanaged it in this state. Again, they made Beattie in charge of it, Peter Beattie in charge of it, and he turned it into a disaster, a public relations disaster. It was a disaster for the Gold Coast, the way he mismanaged that. We’ve got, I was in Julia Creek, not long ago in the Northwest of our state. And they had recently had a hospital open there, a new hospital, but they can’t find any staff to run it. And you know, what that means is people who are in aged care there, have moved out of town. So they’ve lost their family as well. I mean, this state is being so terribly mismanaged. We have got a $130 billion loan, sorry, debt. That’s what our debt is. We’ve got a mismanaged economy. The state government is just running this state into the ground. It’s just telling lies, and it’s just running from one catastrophe to the next. The COVID mismanagement. We have, I was in North, I’m in North Queensland now. I’m calling from Bamaga. We went through Moreton Telegraph, or Moreton Telegraph station just a couple of days ago. They had, the people who are running that business, lost their business in Cairns, a major touring company, tourist company, because of mismanagement. They can’t put up with the state government. It’s just destroying our state.

[Marcus Paul] All right, just on vaccinations. I know that Scott Morrison hasn’t ruled out at all, the possibility of a so-called vaccine passport. We know in France, the president, Emmanuel Macron, has introduced the vaccine passport system. Without a jab, people can’t go to restaurants, or cafes, get on planes, or trains to travel. Look, obviously there’ll be, you know, different countries around the world, where we’ll basically ask people to prove that they’re vaccinated, before they get access to so-called privileges. Look, I don’t know. I know you’re dead set against them, but I have a sneaking suspicion mate, that this is what’s on the way, a vaccine passport system here in Australia, as well.

[Malcolm Roberts] It’s a vaccine prison. It’s not a vaccine passport, it’s a vaccine prison, because it locks people out of everyday activities, travel, services, and mixing with their fellow humans in their own communities. It’s a vaccine prison. Scott Morrison promised, that there would be no vaccine prison. And now he’s trying to push one in, through the aged care facilities. We’ve had thousands of people contact us, deluged, with really serious concerns. Some of my staff have been crying with them on the phone. These people love working in aged care. They love servicing the guests in aged care facilities. They’re going to be leaving them, abandoning them, because they don’t want their own health compromised. We’ve got, in America, as of the 7th of July, it’s increased since then enormously, there were 9,000 deaths due to vaccines, and that’s not even counting AstraZeneca, I don’t think they do that over there. And they’ve had a thousand miscarriages. They have had no testing on the female reproductive systems. And that is possible, because they use rats and to do it, if they did the test, but they haven’t done the test on these vaccines. it’s just disgraceful. This is the first time in human history, where a government has knowingly injected something that can kill you into healthy people. And it’s also the first time in human history, that a government has willfully ignored a proven cure, ivermectin, and let people rot and die, because of COVID when they can’t get Ivermectin even though it’s proven, safe, affordable, and effective.

[Marcus Paul] Well it’s obviously not on the government’s radar. You and I have talked about ivermectin, and all the other options that are elsewhere available before, but it’s quite clear, the medical fraternity in this country, don’t wanna use it, otherwise we would be using it. And you’ve got to ask the question, “Why?” I’m not quite sure. What I do now-

[Malcolm Roberts] No, no.

[Marcus Paul] Hang on, hang on. But what I do know is that we rolled the dice. We went with the wrong jockey, if you like, in AstraZeneca, and we’re paying the price for it now.

[Malcolm Roberts] There are many medical practitioners, and allied healthcare practitioners in this country, who strongly support ivermectin’s use.

[Marcus Paul] Yeah, but the government, my point being, the government’s not listening to them.

[Malcolm Roberts] Correct.

[Marcus Paul] And if they were listening to them, then as you say, ivermectin and others would be in the mix. The question is, why aren’t they? Maybe, you know, because Craig Kelly was on the nose. I don’t know. I know that those who have been pushing it, yourself, Craig Kelly and others. But I do have to wonder why, our medical experts at a federal and state level have shied away from it? They just don’t wanna know about it. Why is that Malcolm? You’re a Senator. You have the ability to ask these questions within the Senate. Why is it that they’re not using ivermectin, or other as you put it, so-called scientifically proven methods to control COVID?

[Malcolm Roberts] It’s very simple, in my opinion, Marcus. Both the Labour Party and the Liberal Party, National Party have run this country into the ground over the last 40 years. Even more, if you go back to the root cause in 1944.

[Marcus Paul] Yeah, but you’re not answering the question.

[Malcolm Roberts] No, no, I am answering your question. What they have done, is they have played second fiddle. They’d been the lackeys for multinational corporations. Multinational corporations in this country, do not have to pay company tax. That’s a fact. That means you and I, and everyone listening is paying their share, the multinational share. Now multinationals behind these vaccines, have got a monopoly, while ever there’s no proven safe, effective, affordable alternative. So the government is not, that’s my belief, that they’re suppressing ivermectin, because if they passed ivermectin, and approved it for use for COVID, there would be no need whatsoever, whatsoever for these vaccines. Plus in addition, we’d be able to open the country up. And because it is known to cure people with COVID, known to already do that. It’s been demonstrated in many countries overseas. It’s been demonstrated also as a prophylactic to prevent you getting COVID. So this is insane.

[Marcus Paul] All right, so basically what you’re saying, is the government don’t wanna know, or our politicians don’t wanna know about the alternative treatments, because there’s nothing in it for them. I mean, we hear stories of certain MPS, and I, this is where I get really annoyed. We hear stories, I don’t know about how true they are. So I’ve got to be a little careful here, but you do hear stories of certain government MPS having shares in a number of the manufacturers of the approved vaccines. Now that to me is a concern, now.

[Malcolm Roberts] That’s a big concern. I haven’t done that research Marcus, so I’m not gonna say too much about it. But if it’s true, that’s a very, very serious indecent thing.

[Marcus Paul] Well, there’s a lotta of rumours about it.

[Malcolm Roberts] Well that’s the thing you know, there so many rumours on the internet about these things. And what we’ve gotta face up to, is the fact that this government has botched the delivery of the vaccines. It’s botched, and same with Labour Party, The Labour Party and the Liberal Party have refused to deal with the fundamental question, which is, should we be vaccinating, not how do we vaccinate. What they’ve done, is they’ve skipped the should we be vaccinating, and looked at that and had a serious debate about the pros and cons, and gone straight to how do we vaccinate? That’s a con job. And so what we’ve got at the very minimum, is a serious abdication of accountability and responsibility yet again, from the federal government in this country. Plus, as you point out, maybe serious conflicts of interest.

[Marcus Paul] Malcolm, good to have you on mate. We’ll talk again soon, appreciate it.

[Malcolm Roberts] Okay, Marcus, little bit.

[Marcus Paul] All right, there he is, Queensland One Nation Senator, Malcolm Roberts. Wow, agree, disagree. Look, as I say, this programme is a broad church, and I allow all opinions. Even those that perhaps, you know, skirt the, well, the probability of almost being realistic. Look, I don’t know. You know Malcolm Roberts, a lot of people don’t like him, but he’s, you know, give him credit where it’s due. He researches, he looks into the issues. And you know, there are a lot of people who do support the use of other formulas or methods to deal with COVID. But it’s quite obvious that the medical fraternity here in Australia, and our politicians don’t agree with him. Otherwise, you know, we’d be using ivermectin, and all these other things that they talk about. But we’re not, we’re stuck with what we’ve got, and here we are, lock downs

Senator Roberts’ office has received around 1000 emails and calls from aged care workers all over Australia who do not want the COVID vaccine, yet the Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese stated on Sky News this morning that he has never met an aged care worker that didn’t want the vaccine. 

Senator Roberts said, “Mr Albanese needs to widen his net and meet more aged care workers since I know there are hundreds of workers who are deeply distressed and terrified at having to get the vaccine. 

“The opposition leader is conveniently ignoring any dissenting voices against the vaccine and his statement is misleading,” he said. 

Many of these emails explain how people are being forced to choose between their jobs or the jab, because this vaccine has been made mandatory and they are in fear of the vaccine’s side-affects.  People are already walking away from their jobs in the aged care sector. 

Senator Roberts stated, “People are being confronted with a loss of liberty and now a loss of a job and it is unconstitutional that we are making them chose. 

“Emails from hospital staff tell of the serious side-affects including death in healthy people, and the fact it never makes the news.  

“There are many Australians who are literally terrified to be rounded up for this mandatory vaccination.  “Mr Albanese’s office will be better informed over the next few days as I have written to the hundreds of aged care workers who have contacted my office and suggested they email Mr Albanese and bring him up to date,” he said.

Anthony Albanese’s contact details can be found here.

I talked to Rowan Dean about the government’s ridiculous idea to change the law so that beer can be offered to get people to have the jab.

Transcript

Rowan Dean:

Promise that you can have a beer. If you have, they changed the law. They went to the TGA, which is the Therapeutic Goods Administration and said, “I’ll change the law. Now, if a pubs want to offer you a beer to get vaccinated, that’s all fine.” Someone who’s not terribly happy about this is one nation, Senator Malcolm Roberts. He joins us now from Brisbane, Malcolm, how are you, senator?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

I’m well, thanks and apologies for the rush, Rowan.

Rowan Dean:

No problem. Listen, I’m pretty disturbed that the TGA who have blocked ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and other things for the last 18 months, and they’re the sacred cow, or you can’t possibly upset the TGA, Scott Morrison turns around and says, “I’ll give them the flick. We’re not going to let people have beers for vaccines.” Tell us your thoughts on it.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Desperation is really a sign that the Australians are growing in vaccine hesitancy, injection hesitancy. That’s the core issue here. The second core issue and the underlying really deep issue is shoddy governance. I picked the right word there, shoddy governance. We’ve had 40 years of it and that’s what’s led to the COVID unmasking, the lack of manufacturing, lack of being able to make fundamental things like masks and ventilators. It’s just really raised that, but now what we’ve seen is no detailed plan, Rowan. And it’s really annoyed me, no detailed plan. People are dying, literally dying because of suicides, domestic violence, et cetera, because of the panic that’s going on. We’ve got no detailed plan yet. We’ve got capricious lockdowns.

                We’ve got people being slammed, small businesses being gutted, or around this country at whims, we’ve got three people get tested positive in Brisbane. Last, just a few months ago in January, and we’re putting masks on all over Queensland. I mean Bamaga 2,700 kilometres away. This is what’s really wrong with this country. It’s a governance that drives to look good, not do good. And I’ve had a gut full of it. And so if so many people were inundated with people just complaining about governance from both the labour party, the liberal party it’s got to stop.

Rowan Dean:

Rita.

Rita Panahi:

Look, I take your point about the hysteria, the outdoor masking, all the lockdowns, but what’s wrong with incentivizing vaccinations so we can reopen the country by giving out free beers in the states that had a Washington was giving out a joint for a jab that had marijuana joints as an incentive.

Rowan Dean:

I suppose you could say a jug for a jab. At least it’s the literates anyway. Malcolm.

Rita Panahi:

Yeah. So what’s wrong. Whether it’s a beer, whether it’s a lottery ticket, what’s wrong with getting people incentivized because Australians are apathetic, got borders are closed. A lot of people are saying, “Why bother getting a vaccination when I’m not allowed to travel and as a fairly lethal virus in the community?”

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Well, the fact is exactly, as Rowan said, this is the first time in history where we have got governments in Western countries, injecting people with something that can kill them, healthy people with something that can kill them. We have got 9,000 deaths reported from the COVID vaccine in the United States. Up until July 7th, we’ve had 27,000 hospitalizations, 57,000 urgent care, 80,000 office visits. We’ve had 1000 miscarriages. We have done, no testing on this drug. The normal testing takes about five to seven years. There’ve been no testing. We get a, I’m told that what happens is the drug manufacturers in this case have given us the results of their overseas tests, which have not been thorough, not even been 18 months in duration. And they’ve bypassed everything here and allowed them to be on a trial, Greg Hunt himself and said, [crosstalk 00:03:41] this is the world’s largest, hang on Rita. This is the worlds largest clinical vaccination trial.

Rowan Dean:

Rita. Off you go, Rita.

Rita Panahi:

We’ve had in this country, something like one death for every 2 million vaccinations, that rate is not just minuscule, it’s lower than any other medicine that you could think of. So to say that we are [crosstalk 00:04:02] killing people by injecting healthy people is, well we have had testing. This drug has got approval. It’s, [crosstalk 00:04:10].

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

No testing on pregnant women, no testing on female reproducting.

Rowan Dean:

Okay. So we’ll just stop [crosstalk 00:04:16].

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

No testing on fe- and what we’ve also got is,

Rowan Dean:

Sorry, sorry, Malcolm.

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

Sorry, Rowan?

Rowan Dean:

Just rose jumped in there. Yeah. Clearly we can have a lengthy debate about the different vaccines and the different tests and all the rest, but James, your point.

James Morrow:

Oh, I was going to say, I mean, the people are, what is wrong with people making their own informed consent? We know you say there’s vaccine hesitancy, but they’ve had record numbers this past week of people going out and signing up to get the jab beer or no beer. If people want to make an informed consent off of their own decision and their own research about it and do their own risk calculation. What’s wrong with that?

Senator Malcolm Roberts:

That’s exactly the point. You’re right on there. James. We need to have informed consent and you don’t have informed consent when you haven’t got all the options on the table. Rowan introduced this segment with ivermectin as well as now, killing people with something that is injected into healthy people and some occasions Rita. We’ve also got a proven drug, safe drug, affordable drug. It’s now proven with COVID for over 12 months and the government will not let it into this country to be used for COVID. This is the first time we’ve prevented a known cure and a known prophylactic from being used on people who are sick and need treatment. This is a complete contradiction of what should be happening. We should, this is a real governance issue. It goes to informed consent and no compulsory mandated vaccinations, not at all informed consent is absolutely essential. And you can’t have informed consent when you’ve got bribes. When you’ve got threats or losing livelihoods jobs and lifestyle, you can’t have that in this country. This is a free country, not a totalitarian dictatorship.

Rowan Dean:

Senator Malcolm Roberts. Thanks so much for coming. Sorry guys, we’re going to leave it there. I’ve got lots more to get on within the show and I really do appreciate Malcolm Roberts giving us his time.

On this page:

  1. What letting the government enforce vaccines means
  2. Mandatory Vaccines, unconstitutional?
  3. Lockdowns
  4. Vaccine Safety
  5. Further details on the constitutionality of vaccines
  6. Confused about the Government rules on vaccines?
  7. Informed Consent
  8. Vaccine passports/prisons
  9. Where did COVID come from?
  10. Vaccine approval status
  11. The plan is coercion
  12. Ivermectin

What letting the government enforce vaccines means

There are far-reaching consequences of letting the government get away with their new enforcement of vaccines in aged care workers. We must fight against it.

Transcript: (click here)

When it comes to vaccines in our bodies, we must always have access to informed consent and freedom of choice. In August, 2020, Prime Minister, Scott Morrison said, “It’s not going to be compulsory to have the vaccine.” On Monday 28th of June, 2021, he went back on his word and stated that it will be mandatory for all aged care workers to have the vaccine.

No one can argue the vulnerability of those in aged care. No one can argue the vaccination is not yet proven and everyone who is having the vaccine is part of the world’s largest clinical vaccination trial, which is exactly how our health minister Greg Hunt describes it. My office put out a call on Facebook for any aged care workers to contact us if they have concerns around the vaccine. We were swamped with phone calls and hundreds of emails just within hours. In summary, there are many workers distraught, anxious and terrified of being forced to get the jab. These concerns are raised from fears about the known and unknown side effects, religious beliefs, pregnancy, allergies and having pre-existing conditions.

If that isn’t enough, those that haven’t had the vaccine are harassed and intimidated by colleagues. We had people sobbing over the phone. We know many are casuals within the aged care sector. When they cannot afford to be without work, their concerns around the vaccine are so profound, they know when the September deadline comes, they will have to leave their jobs. The aged care sector could be challenged by increased staff shortages and standards of care will slip.

Aged care residents are at risk of losing the stability of those long-term care relationships with staff. Our aged care workers have had their rightful freedom of choice around the vaccination stripped away from them by the Prime Minister. Aged care workers are losing their fundamental worker and human rights. Some unions are by default, supporting the mandatory vaccinations.

In the words of Sally McManus, Secretary of the ACTU, “Just get the job done and support the casualization workforce so that they are not out of pocket if they get side effects.” Nowhere in that, does she advocate for workers’ rights to not get the vaccine. And a statement of side effects is an admission there are problems with the vaccine. All Australians must be able to make their own informed choices on whether to have the vaccine and not be rammed into it.


Mandatory Vaccines – Unconstitutional?

Mandatory Vaccination is against the federal constitution. That means Scott Morrison can’t enforce them, but, State Governments can. It’s an unethical backdoor around the protections in the constitution, and Premiers look set to bow to Scott Morrisons demands on mandatory vaccination.

Transcript: (click here)

During these COVID 19 times, the government messages are getting more and more confusing. It was only a few months ago that the prime minister, Mr. Scott Morrison, said that he would not make COVID-19 vaccinations mandatory. Yet, that is what he has recently said would be necessary for aged and healthcare workers and for those drivers working in the quarantine sector. If he gets away with this, it will be just the beginning, before spreading Australia wide across our industries and nation.

Can he do it? Well, the Australian constitution states in section 51, paragraph 23-A, that the Commonwealth government cannot impose mandatory medical treatment on a person. That would include vaccination. The states though can do it. If they pass legislation to that effect. Now Victoria and Western Australia have legislation in place that could force a person to be vaccinated. There’s nothing to prevent other states and territories from passing similar enabling legislation, to be in line with Victoria and Western Australia.

The result of that, is that if the prime minister can persuade the states and territories to follow his line, they can enable the Commonwealth demands. Is this ethical? Well, that’s another question, but absolutely not. It would be a backdoor way for the Commonwealth to sneak around the constitutional prohibition on enforcing vaccination. On this issue, the Commonwealth government is behaving like an authoritarian dictatorship. Acting in an unethical, unjustified and unprincipled way.

Forcing vaccinations represents an attack on bodily integrity and without a valid consent, they may well constitute an assault. People should be able to freely choose what will be injected into their bodies. These vaccines remain unproven and the long-term prognosis are unknown. On that basis the vaccines are unjustified.

We should be able to trust our prime minister when he makes promises. It’s clear that we can’t.


Lockdowns again? That’s so 2020

More than 18 months into COVID19 State Premiers are still using the same old trick, lockdowns. It shows they have got no idea how to manage COVID.

Transcript: (click here)

The cities of Brisbane and Townsville have only just come out of yet another brutal lockdown and Sydney is in the middle of a three week lockdown. The only time a lockdown is justified is when the virus is so out of control, the government needs to buy time to reorganise and regroup resources and protect exhausted health workers. Using lockdowns 18 months later is a sure sign that our political leaders are yet to master living with COVID. It seems that their only trick is to grind the towns or states to a halt over a handful of cases, while they madly scramble for testing and tracing.

My message has been consistent, quarantine those unwell and waiting on tests and allow the rest of the state to get back to work. Other countries have found a way to balance both the health and the economic priorities. Yet, after 18 months in Australia, we are still unable to find that balance. The Premiers and the Prime Minister may say that we can’t have any further deaths from COVID as justification for these brutal lockdowns.

What they aren’t saying is that deaths from loneliness, social isolation, suicide, and unchecked medical conditions such as missed cancer diagnosis are okay. Apparently those deaths don’t matter because they aren’t COVID deaths. We’re at the mercy of our Premiers and their insatiable need to appear to be looking after the people. They want to look good, not do good. They tell us, “We’re keeping you safe from COVID,” while what they do is wreck our businesses, take away our jobs, devastate our livelihoods, isolate us, and let our loved ones die alone.

Internet searches for loneliness have increased, as have rates of self-harm, eating disorders, anxiety, and domestic violence. Meanwhile, the government tracks every shop, supermarket, stadium, pub, and government office we enter. After 18 months of collecting health data, learning from national and international experience and knowing the costly economic and mental health concerns, we would have hoped that Australia’s approach would have evolved past brutal capricious lockdowns.

It’s a shame on these power hungry politicians that it hasn’t.


Vaccine Safety

Since 2020 the number of concerned Australians “very unlikely” to get the vaccine has increased 10% and there’s good reason for this.
The government gave vaccine manufacturers immunity so vaccine makers will not be liable for adverse effects. If a company is not willing to stand behind its product as safe there can be no trust.

Transcript: (click here)

Many Australians are hesitating about getting a Covid injection. Since 2020 the number of concerned Australians “very unlikely” to get the vaccine has increased 10% and there’s good reason for this. People are recognising that our safety, liberty and personal freedoms are at stake, and asking many questions about the safety of these injections. The government gave vaccine manufacturers immunity so vaccine makers will not be liable for adverse effects. If a company is not willing to stand behind its product as safe there can be no trust.

The federal health minister said this is the world’s largest clinical vaccination trial. The Chief Health Officer, head of the Health Department and head of the Therapeutic Goods Administration all refused to say the vaccines are 100% safe. We have no idea what these products will do to our body months or years from now. How will it affect pregnant women? The babies they’re carrying? Infertility?

We know the vaccine can make people unwell, that 60% experience tiredness, 50% experience headaches and 30% might have chills and there are more serious complications including vascular deterioration and death. No one knows the dosage. Nor the number of injections. Nor the frequency of injections. Will they be annual? Twice a year?

There’s been no public debate among health officials, scientists or in parliament. People with questions or contrary opinions get silenced and healthcare workers are being intimidated not to step out of line. COVID’s first victim was free discussion.  The Morrison government is mandating vaccination for aged care workers yet many are afraid of the vaccine and afraid they will lose their jobs.

Yet despite all this, people having the vaccine can still get the virus AND still spread the virus. We all deserve to have access to the facts so we can make informed decisions. The simple legal fact is that a death associated with a government approved injection is different in legal status from a death due to an accidental infection.


Further details on the Constitutionality of Mandatory Vaccines

I oppose vaccines being made mandatory and so do many Australians. There are some incorrect claims being made about sections 109 and 51 of the Constitution, the Biosecurity Act and the Nuremberg code. Some people may not like the information I’m about to tell you, but I assure you it is accurate. I wish it wasn’t, but there is nothing to gain in misleading you and giving you false hope. Please watch this video or read the transcript in full on my website.

Transcript: (click here)

I want to address some claims in relation to mandatory vaccines. I completely oppose mandatory vaccines, but there are some false claims about their legality. Some people may not like the information I’m about to tell you, but I assure you it is accurate. I wish it wasn’t, but there is nothing to gain in misleading you and giving you false hope. Can the Commonwealth Government make Covid vaccinations mandatory?

The Australian Constitution in Section 51(xxiiiA) does not provide an authority for mandatory medical treatment on a person. That would include vaccination. It does allow the Commonwealth to fund treatment but not to compel it. Because the power to mandate treatment was not given to the Commonwealth under the 51(xxiiiA) of the Constitution, the Commonwealth cannot mandate treatment under this provision. There are provisions in the Biosecurity Act 2015, made under the Commonwealth’s quarantine power, that in limited circumstances may authorise directions for individuals, but not groups of persons.

The States, on the other hand, can mandate treatment if they pass legislation to that effect.  s.51(xxiiiA) of the Commonwealth constitution does not restrict them. At the moment, Victoria and Western Australia have explicit legislation in place that could force a person to be vaccinated. There is nothing to prevent the other States and Territories from passing similar enabling legislation to be in line with Victoria and Western Australia.

The result of that is that if the Prime Minister can persuade the States and Territories to follow his line, they can enable the Commonwealth demands. Is this morally right?  Absolutely not. It would be a backdoor way for the Commonwealth to sneak around the Constitution on enforcing vaccination. Scott Morrison can’t do it because of the Constitution, so he’s getting the State Governments to do his dirty work.

Another issue that requires some explanation is the effect of s.109 of the Australian Constitution. This says that if there is a conflict between a valid Commonwealth Act and a valid State Act, the Commonwealth Act shall prevail to the extent of any inconsistency. Some people believe this makes mandatory vaccinations illegal even if the state does them. The Constitution however is a special document, not being a Commonwealth Act, and s 109 does not apply in the context of mandatory treatments.

If there was a Commonwealth Act saying vaccinations are not to be mandatory, and a State Act saying that vaccinations are mandatory, the State Act would be inconsistent with the Commonwealth Act and the State Act would fail under s109. However, there is no Commonwealth Act that says vaccinations cannot be mandatory so s109 does not apply. There may be a number of human rights protections against forced vaccination but these have not yet been fully tested under Australian law.

Some people have raised the Nuremburg Code, which is an international agreement that says that people should not be subject to experimental treatment unless they have consented to it. It is only enforceable in Australia if it is in legislation, which is not the case apart from the ACT, where s.10(2) of the Human Rights Act 2004 provides the right not to be subject to medical treatment or experimentation without free consent. The Nuremberg code is a principle that should be adhered to ethically, but it is not a guaranteed legal requirement generally in Australia.

Forced vaccinations represent an attack on bodily integrity, and without a valid consent may well constitute an assault. People should be able to freely choose what will be injected into their bodies. In Queensland, the Chief Health Officer has made several directions based on her emergency powers under the Public Health Act 2005, applicable in Queensland. These emergency-based powers are proposed to be extended out until 30 April 2022 and apply while there is a declared public health emergency.

The powers are very broad and recently included student nurses being  excluded from a Restricted Vulnerable Facility if not fully vaccinated, having not had both planned injections. Currently this directive applies for a period up to 6.00pm on 16 July 2021. A Restricted Vulnerable Facility includes hospitals, a residential aged care facility, disability accommodation and correctional centres. These Directions are all supposed to be temporary.

If an employer tries to force an existing employee to be vaccinated this may well constitute an unreasonable direction and the employee may refuse unless the employer has a particular authority. If that employee is fired or is threatened with being fired if they do not comply with the request this may constitute unlawful dismissal and can be fought in court. The proximity of the employee to vulnerable people may be a factor the court would look at when considering if the request to vaccinate is reasonable.

The court would also consider the risks to the vulnerable people and the risk profile of the employee through being exposed. The greater the risk, the more likely the direction to vaccinate would be considered reasonable. If before being hired an applicant is told this is a condition of employment and the applicant does not wish to be vaccinated, the employer is legally able to hire someone else. The decision in these circumstances is really a legitimate choice by the applicant.

In summary, although it is unethical, unjustifiable and a shocking intrusion on people’s bodily integrity, the States have the technical legal power to mandate vaccines. The only solution is to tell them you oppose it, and if they don’t listen vote the wannabe tyrants out of power.


Confused about the government rules on vaccines?

The government has been relying on fear and panic for the vaccine. When the government does that, they’ll just jump from brain snap to brain snap without a plan.

Transcript: (click here)

Did you know, after the AstraZeneca vaccine had already been approved in Australia, the Health Minister Greg Hunt said that the world is engaged in the largest clinical vaccination trial in history? This government is just making it up as they go. In February the Government said AstraZeneca was perfectly safe and approved it. In April, they backtracked due to blood clots and said to avoid it if you are under 50. In June they backtracked further and said avoid it if you are under 60.

Then the Prime Minister announced that anyone under 40 can get AstraZeneca. The Queensland Chief Health Officer said that was wrong, and quote,

“We’ve seen up to 49 deaths in the UK from [blood clots]. I don’t want an 18-year-old in Queensland dying from a clotting illness who, if they got COVID, probably wouldn’t die”.

If you’re losing track of the advice, I don’t blame you. Despite saying the vaccines are completely safe, the government has given indemnities to vaccine makers and doctors who administer AstraZeneca to people under 40. This means that if something goes wrong and you need to sue someone, the taxpayer will end up paying the bill. Why would the vaccine makers and doctors need protection from being sued if the vaccines are so safe?

And if they aren’t safe, it should be the vaccine makers who foot the bill for any damage they cause, not us, the taxpayers. The government has been relying on fear and panic for the vaccine. When the government does that, they’ll just jump from brain snap to brain snap without a plan. You, and all of Australia suffers from the government’s brain snaps, and they’ve been non-stop lately.

There is a better way, with data, with honesty, and respecting freedom of choice. That’s what Australians want. That’s what I support.


Informed Consent

Informed Consent is vital to any medical procedure. I’m being told that many people receiving a vaccination in Aged Care are deliberately not being told which vaccination is being administered. This is in addition to it being made mandatory for Aged Care workers or they will lose their job.

Wherever there is coercion (you will lose your job and livelihood if you do not take this vaccine) it is impossible to have informed consent.

Transcript: (click here)

Every doctor, every allied health professional and every lawyer who works in the medico-legal field knows that for a consent to medical treatment to be valid, a necessary element is that the consent must be fully informed. If the patient has sufficient information about the proposed treatment that will provide the treating practitioner with a defence against a civil suit for assault.

However, if the practitioner is being sued for negligence, by way of breaching the duty of care owed to the patient, the consent from the patient must be by way of a fully informed consent. Sufficient information in the context of an assault action would be that the patient has been provided information in broad, general terms as to the nature of the proposed treatment and what it is intended to achieve. Informed consent in the context of an action in negligence requires a much higher standard of information provided for the patient.

This information should be detailed as to the nature of the treatment; what alternatives there are; what are the risks involved, in detail more than just statistics; what are the possible side effects and how they may be treated. I’m being told that many people receiving a vaccination are deliberately not being told which vaccination is being administered. I’m hearing that in some aged care facilities, the residents are not being told of alternatives that may be available such as Ivermectin, and deliberately kept in the dark about the actual treatment.

They are very frightened. Deadly side effects such as blood clotting and heart problems are being downplayed. Simple questions about long term effects of the vaccinations go unanswered because the answers remain unknown. How can a patient give a fully informed consent with all these unanswered questions? They can’t. The government has recently said they would indemnify doctors who administer the vaccine when something goes terribly wrong. This does not indicate the government has much confidence in the vaccine being administered and indicates they’re presuming something harmful will happen.


Vaccine Prisons

A vaccine passport is no different to a vaccine prison, saying you can’t go to the pub or join the rest of society unless you prove you are vaccinated.

That’s coercion. We must completely reject any form of vaccine passport in Australia.

Transcript: (click here)

You might think the government has gone quiet about their proposed vaccine passport, but they’ve just renamed it to something that sounds a bit more innocent, a “vaccine certificate”. That’s the government’s proposal to say that you can’t travel, go between states, maybe even go to the pub unless you’ve been vaccinated, and you carry something to prove you have been. Whatever they call it, it’s still the same tool of a dictatorship.

It doesn’t belong in Australia. Really it is a vaccine prison. It means that unless you are vaccinated you will have your rights taken away from you: rights to travel interstate, rights eventually to interact with society and community. That’s coercion. Informed consent, which is absolutely essential to any medical procedure, is not possible where there’s coercion. To be clear I absolutely oppose any form of vaccination passport or vaccination certificate.

I support vaccines being available and for people to have choice. I have concerns about the long-term effects of the current batch of COVID vaccines because we simply don’t know the effects. I support anyone making an informed choice and giving their informed consent to choose to take a vaccine, yet there is no justifiable reason that the government should enforce vaccines or make vaccines mandatory – ever. A vaccine passport, a vaccine certificate, a vaccine prison is just another way to make a vaccine mandatory by coercion and the idea should be tossed in the bin forever.


Where did COVID come from?

Despite being dismissed as conspiracy theorists in the early days of COVID, many Australians still have concerns whether the pandemic came from the Wuhan Lab. As time has gone on, more and more evidence has emerged giving the supposed conspiracy theory credibility.

Transcript: (click here)

Many everyday Australians are concerned not just about COVID-19 but where it came from. We recently heard that CSIRO and several Australian universities have engaged in at least 10 joint projects with the Chinese Wuhan Institute of Virology over the past decade. This is a laboratory that US intelligence has linked to the Chinese military and which is suspected of being at the centre of the COVID-19 outbreak. Concerningly, at Senate Estimates hearings CSIRO at first denied any links to Wuhan. Later, the truth came out.  

What’s worse is that CSIRO is linked to a Chinese infectious diseases expert who is now head of the Bat Virus Infection and Immunity Project at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.  There are links into Australian universities too, one being the University of Queensland, which has been partnering with the Wuhan Institute, experimenting on emerging diseases, environmental science and infectious disease epidemiology. 

These experiments are called “Gain-of-Function” which is a euphemism for biological research aimed at increasing the infectiousness, danger and severity of pathogens and viruses. These deadly science-enhanced pathogens can and do escape into the community where they infect and kill people – it’s biological warfare. The risks posed by these dangerous experiments far outweigh any speculative benefits.  Many Australians are asking why our government is not being proactive and protecting us from the release of lab-created viruses, and why the government does not have an end-to-end plan for managing the COVID-19 outbreak.

It’s time the Morrison Government cancelled funding and support for research and collaboration on projects and with nations that may weaponise a virus and harm everyday Australians.  We all deserve to be safe.


Vaccine Approvals

The government has simply taken BigPharma’s word, accepting Pfizer and AstraZeneca’s data which by their own admission may be inaccurate.

It’s no wonder Australians don’t believe in mandatory vaccination when data on the long term effects of these vaccines is simply unavailable.

Transcript: (click here)

The Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), part of the Department of Health, has granted a provisional determination to the Pfizer Australia and the Astra Zeneca vaccines. The granting of a provisional determination means that the TGA has made a decision that Pfizer and Astra Zeneca are now eligible to apply for provisional registration for the vaccine in the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods (ARTG).

This Provisional approval pathway is available to sponsors with preliminary clinical data. To put this simply, the TGA takes the drug companies’ word for the accuracy of the data, which will have come from limited foreign trials. There is no checking or peer review. none. In looking through Pfizer’s clinical data, our office team noticed this disclaimer: “Pfizer advise that substantial risks and uncertainties exist in connection with their data, including the possibility of unfavorable new data and the ability to produce comparable clinical results, including the rate of vaccine effectiveness and safety observed in the trials.”

With those words, Pfizer just said that they cannot guarantee once deployed the vaccine will be safe and will provide a level of protection claimed during the application process with the TGA. This is what happens when approvals are given on wafer thin clinical testing, so quickly that replication and peer review has NOT happened. The vaccine approval process takes between 5 and 10 years for a reason. This approval was 3 months.

The public are right to be concerned that the TGA has not tested these vaccines enough, and in fact, have not tested them at all.


The plan is coercion

Even at 80% vaccination the Government won’t rule out lockdowns. They don’t have a plan for managing COVID at all.

Transcript: (click here)

The Australian people and our business community are fatigued with the limping and damaging mis-management of our response to COVID. The only real plan, post flattening the curve, has been to stoke the fires of exaggeration and hysteria to keep the population scared and compliant.  This ensures many of us won’t notice that no one has any idea of what’s next and it facilitates people accepting illogical and inconsistent health orders.

After 18 months of widely different responses across the country the Prime Minister announced on Friday 2 July what he believes will be a plan to get back to normal. You might breathe a sigh of relief… yet that would be premature.  There’s no real detail, that will take another month to assemble. The promise to use lockdowns only as an extreme measure seems to mean that lockdowns will be here to stay for the rest of the year.  That gives business no confidence at all.

The real message in the plan is the use of coercive power to get the population vaccinated.  Our freedom of movement, our freedom, is being directly tied to being vaccinated.  The Prime Minister is ushering in a two-tier society – those vaccinated and those unvaccinated.  Personal choice and health considerations around the unproven and experimental vaccine with known and unknown negative side-affects have become irrelevant. 

The unvaccinated will be condemned and not allowed to live a normal life. Instead of this vaccine prison Australians need a plan that respects the rights of Australians and brings us all along without the intrusive and unconstitutional curtailing of personal freedoms. This one trick pony of a plan is all about coercive control – get the vaccine or lose your job, lose your business or stay at home.

We are being forced to choose between our freedoms – freedom over our bodies or freedom over our movement or freedom over which job we can have.  That is no plan. That is a con, a disgraceful con. No wonder so many people have vaccine hesitancy.


Why isn’t Ivermectin available in Australia

All along, we’ve been told that the only escape out of the pandemic is completely new, expensive vaccines. But what if alternative and complementary treatments were available? Would it threaten BigPharma’s monopoly?

Transcript: (click here)

When it comes to treating and preventing people getting Covid-19 we’ve been told that the only solution is a brand new vaccine. This is not true, there are alternative and complementary treatments for respiratory conditions, which COVID19 is. One of them is Ivermectin. It’s had over 3.7 billion doses administered over the last 60 years. In that time, it’s had a proven safety record. Over the past year Ivermectin has been successful where used against COVID in some Indian states, and in some South American, European and Asian countries.

There are over 40 medical and scientific papers which hail Ivermectin’s success. So why is it banned for this use with Covid in Australia? It raises serious questions about BigPharma’s monopoly and conflicts of interest. For example, Google’s parent company Alphabet owns YouTube. YouTube has banned any videos that even mention Ivermectin as a possible COVID treatment.

They even took down one of my videos, and I’m a Federal Senator. But here’s the kicker, Alphabet owns 12% of Vaccitech, who created the AstraZeneca vaccine. Aren’t these conflicts of interest? The federal government’s Therapeutic Goods Administration wrote me a threatening letter for publicly discussing Ivermectin.

The way I see it I’m a duly elected member of Australia’s national parliament doing my lawful duty, sharing accurate information with you. Silencing debate and data is a form of control. And always beneath control there is … fear.

Is dishonest BigPharma afraid of losing its hundreds of billions of dollars in profits? Is the government afraid to admit they’ve made a mistake? I have no financial or other ties with vaccine makers or Ivermectin or drug companies. My interest is in ensuring we protect people’s health & restore our nation’s economic health and security. That’s why alternative and complimentary treatments must be available.

On the best evidence we have, Ivermectin should be available. Without it, the government has blood on its hands.

After failing to get some of the answers we were seeking on vaccines, I went back to the Department of Health and Dr Murphy to ask some more questions about informed consent and vaccination by coercion with a vaccine passport. I think you’ll find their answers in this part 2 just as interesting as part 1.

Part 1: https://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/vaccine-passports-and-compensation/

Transcript

[Malcolm Roberts] And one that I touched on briefly, the intergenerational effects of the vaccine are unknown, the effect of the vaccine on transmission is unknown, GPs are not even allowed to say which vaccine they have available. Well Australians have a right to know the foundation of informed consent is accurate and full information. How is it possible to achieve real informed consent in this information vacuum?

So, I think the GPs are certainly able to say which vaccines they have available and they provide informed consent-

[Malcolm Roberts] Just to interrupt there, We had a presentation, I attended a presentation by you and Professor Kelly saying that the vaccine injection rooms would not be disclosing which vaccine was given at that time. Where people go to get their injection.

They’re not given a choice. They’re not given a choice

I think you’re talking two different things, Senator, so, clearly, at this stage of the rollout, the GPs are distributing AstraZeneca. The issue would’ve been the choice and perhaps there might’ve been some other issues that…

[Malcolm Roberts] It was certain, nonetheless, Minister, with so many effects unknown, how can there be an informed consent?

Well, Senator, I’m not going to try and give you health advice, and so I’ll prefer to-

Professor Kelly might be able to address that, but just to be very clear that people undergoing the informed consent process are very clear about which vaccine they’re getting, we’re not disguising the vaccine. So Professor Kelly can can go through the informed consent process.

Yeah, so, informed consent is a very important component of any medical medical procedure or treatment. And doctors do that with their patients every day, every time they see them pretty much is talking through the pros and cons of various, in this case, vaccines. As the Secretary has said, it’s pretty clear if you turn up to a GP at the moment with a couple of exceptions, but almost all GPs are only using one vaccine and it’s only for those over the age of 50 if it’s AstraZeneca. And there is some benefits of that in the particular circumstances of the person in front of them would be discussed in great detail. We’ve provided a lot of information, very detailed information based on the ATAGI advice in relation to that risk and benefit equation for GPs and other medical practitioners and nurses to use.

[Malcolm Roberts] Okay, thank you. My first question goes to the, question of mandatory vaccination. Is the government considering mandatory vaccination?

Government’s repeatedly said it is not considering mandatory vaccination for COVID vaccines or any other vaccines.

[Malcolm Roberts] So is the vaccine passport still under consideration?

The only situation that, as we referred to early today, where people might be on a public health, state and territory, for example, may say that they would refuse entry to a residential aged care facility, that’s the position that AHPPC is considering. That is not mandating vaccination, it’s basically saying that in certain situations it may be not possible to participate in a certain activity unless you’ve been vaccinated. But there has not been a position that we’ve taken so far, AHPPC is reconsidering it.

Can I just add Senator? So, obviously the issue of medical advice is the extent to which and whether and when you might want to limit access to aged care facilities, which the Secretary’s talking about, the broader issue of whether there’s a vaccine passport to identify you’ve had a vaccine and what impact that might have, internationally or otherwise, is a matter for the Department of Home Affairs. You should refer it to them.

But we are providing citizens with evidence of vaccination, they can get a vaccination certificate and they can use that in whatever way they choose.

[Malcolm Roberts] So that’s essentially a vaccine passport then isn’t it? Ms. Edwards?

It’d be a certificate. I mean, at the moment, it’s a long… The Australian Immunisation Register has been around for quite a long time, it got expanded a few years ago to cover all vaccinations and it will have the evidence of your vaccination of COVID-19 vaccine in it. And you have access to it in a printed form or electronically. That’ll evidence you’ve had the vaccine. There is no activity, at the moment, of that you’re either permitted or prevented from doing by virtue of vaccine status but as obviously medical information for you.

[Malcolm Roberts] So that vaccine register should be confidential, shouldn’t it?

It is.

It is, but any citizen can print their own certificate and they can use it as they choose fit.

And we use it for aggregated data. So a lot of the data we’re getting about how many people have been vaccinated not just for COVID-19 vaccine, but for the range of vaccines that we know is drawn out of the Australian Immunisation Register in a de-identified aggravated form.

[Malcolm Roberts] So a vaccine passport, though, could be established for restricting movement of people or entry of people to a specific venue?

Well, it’s a hypothetical question, not one within the remit of the health department. All that we’re talking about is having evidence that you’ve had the vaccine, which is really important, apart from anything else, so that people know what your risk is if you come into contact with COVID-19. And also, it’s used in vaccination clinics to check that it’s your second dose. So if you turn up for your second dose they’ll check the register to check that, yes, Senator Roberts has had one dose of AstraZeneca and here’s the time for the second one. So used for those safety reasons for an individual and it’s evidence of the medical treatment that you’ve had. But any further use of it, one’s not in contemplation that I’m aware of, we’re certainly not involved in that. And the questions about how it might be used internationally, or so on, is a matter for Home Affairs.

[Malcolm Roberts] So Home Affairs, where would they get their advice from? It would be from you, wouldn’t it?

They seek health advice from us,

[Malcolm Roberts] Yes.

and also advice about how the Immunisation Register works and so on, together with Services Australia, and they would be engaging with other agencies as well.

[Malcolm Roberts] So as I see it, threatening Australians with the loss of privileges of free movement, or a job, or even a livelihood without a vaccine passport, that’s really a digital prison.

I’m not aware of any proposal to do any of those things, Senator.

[Malcolm Roberts] You’re not aware of any? So is the government enforcing vaccination through coercion, if that would occur?

[Secretary] Well, Senator, that’s a hypothetical and it’s an opinion, Senator, and I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask the officials that question.

[Malcolm Roberts] So, going back to the vaccine, people expect the vaccine to do more than prevent deaths, more than not cause deaths, people expect the vaccine to bring back life as we know it, the removal of all restrictions and the resumption of international travel. Clearly, while acknowledging the many unknowns that you commendably and openly acknowledged this morning, what percentage of vaccination unlocks the gate and removes the restrictions, and when?

I think Professor Kelly can address the fact that that’s still an unknown parameter and our knowledge is evolving, but Professor Kelly has been asked this question on many occasions.

And I’ve since answered it. Thank you, Secretary, just on the-

[Secretary] They’re still asking it.

Yeah, I will get to your question just on the proof of vaccination. On my phone through my Medicare app, I have proof of my vaccination, it arrived within 24 hours of that vaccination happening, and it’s just shows that this is already happening. Anyone who’s had a vaccination will be able to access that, and if it’s needed to be shown it’s there.

[Malcolm Roberts] We’re not worried about that. My constituents are very worried about it becoming a condition of entry to a venue or to travel or something like that.

Well, as the associate Secretary has mentioned that it’s a matter for other parts of government to consider but we will provide medical advice about how that information can be verified in terms of a vaccine that we trust and know that works. So, to your question about where’s the target, this has come up on multiple occasions, I guess my answer is that these are non-binary states. So every single extra person that’s vaccinated in Australia is part of our path to the post-COVID future you’re describing. There’s no magical figure that says when we get to that, we’ve reached herd immunity and everything will be fine, rather it’s a process of getting towards that. We do need quite high coverage, though, to be able to get to the situation where, for most of the time, a seeding event, such as what we’re experiencing in Victoria, right now, will not lead to a large outbreak. So, that is, modelling that is being done at the moment by colleagues at the Doherty in Melbourne, and others. It’s part of the work that AHPPC has been asked to do to provide information into Mr Gaetgans’ committee, which is in turn providing information and advice to the national cabinet.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you. Where’s the government’s plan for managing the COVID virus because, the six components we discussed, the three of us discussed at the last Senate estimates, isolation lockdown, testing, tracing quarantining, restrictions, treatments, such as cures and prophylactics, and the fifth was vaccines. And then I think Professor Kelly added personal behaviours as number six. Perhaps we could add a seventh, and that is prevention through health and fitness because we’re seeing now that obesity and comorbidities are a big predictor of people dying from COVID. When will we see action in number four, which is treatments, cures and prophylactics, and health and fitness?

I can perhaps address treatments. The Scientific and Technical Advisory Committee, which is the committee that looks at the vaccines also as a watching brief on all treatments and has considered whether there are any treatments that we are recommending government to purchase. There’s also the TGA obviously also is reviewing treatments as they appear at this stage. And we also have an evidence taskforce that looks at the real-time evidence of treatments. At this stage there really is very limited options for treatment other than vaccines, but Professor Skerritt can perhaps give you more information.

Thank you Secretary. So, at the moment in Australia, the Clinical Evidence Taskforce endorses three TGA-approved treatments. The first is, and may depend on how sick you are, whether you need oxygen and so forth. So if you’re in hospital requiring oxygen, corticosteroids are recommended for use with COVID patients. And I would venture to say that, globally, they’ve probably been the most successful intervention. A drug called Remdesivir is approved for moderate to severely ill patients who don’t require oxygen or ventilation. And more recently, there’s a drug that was originally an arthritis drug, known as Tocilizumab, T-O-C-I-L-I-Z-U-M-A-B, I don’t get to name them.

[Malcolm Roberts] You barely get to pronounce them.

No, no, no, no. But it’s tricky, If they have unpronounceable names, everyone uses a trade name. That’s the trick. But Tocilizumab is for people who do require oxygen. Now, what we don’t have yet, and I think I may have said this at last estimates is a antiviral drug that’s up there as effective as the recent antiviral drugs for Hepatitis-C or for HIV. But trust me, there’s a major effort of companies working on that area. The other thing that has been coming through the system, and seem to be getting better, are these antibody-based treatments. And we’re currently looking at a drug, or an antibody, called Sotrovimab. It’s S-O-T-R-O-V-I-M-A-B and it has some very promising early results, and we’re currently assessing that. But we have always said that antivirals and other treatments will be important for a range of reasons. One of which is that even with the greatest adherence to, say, the three week gap for Pfizer vaccination, or the 12 week gap for AstraZeneca vaccination, neither treatment is 100% effective against catching or transmitting the virus. They seem to be very effective against death or hospitalisation, but we do know that treatments will play an important part in getting on top of this virus.

[Malcolm Roberts] Okay, just building on that, you didn’t address item number seven, which I suggested, health and fitness. But the focus on the vaccine is not addressing the end to end from prevention to resiliency to treatment. Don’t we need the full gamut? A comprehensive and complementary approach, what would that look like? And would it not include Ivermectin, assuming someone sponsors it and other treatments for those who want alternatives to vaccines? Because there are people who want alternative.

Well, very briefly on general health, the fact that people are going to many general practitioners and having the COVID vaccination is always an opportunity for the GP to have a quick discussion, “well, hey, smoking doesn’t actually help your respiratory chances with COVID.” There are some mixed messages out there and some mixed results. For example, a lot of people with asthma were very worried early in the COVID pandemic, but some of the asthma drugs, there’s a drug called Budesonide an orally inhaled steroid, inhaled steroid, which is actually quite effective in the early stages of COVID. People with asthma, for example, in general, especially if they’re on those drugs don’t seem to have been affected. But it is true that if you have co-morbidities such as diabetes and so forth, your risks of COVID infection are greater. And that’s why in Phase 1b a number of people who, for example, had drug resistant hypertension or had diabetes and so on were prioritised early for vaccination. Going back to other therapies, we’re always interested in evidence-based submissions for any other therapy. The challenge is that some of the early papers that suggested, for example, with hydroxychloroquine there was a lot of promise, when the blinded trials were done objectively the early promise very sadly didn’t hold up.

[Malcolm Roberts] Okay. Thank you, Chair. I’ll leave it there.

IF THERE’S ONE VIDEO YOU WATCH FROM SENATE ESTIMATES MAKE IT THIS ONE.

I questioned the Government about vaccines, the indemnities it has provided to vaccine manufacturers and whether the government actually has a plan to stop restrictive lockdowns. These are common sense questions about liability and informed consent, let’s see if the tech-censors agree.

Also see part 2 to these questions here: https://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/informed-consent-and-vaccine-passports-department-of-health-part-2/

Transcript

Thank you. Senator Roberts.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you, Chair. And thank you for appearing today. Many Australians have heard that getting vaccinated does not stop us from getting COVID, and that if we do get it we could still infect other people. Is that true?

– Yes – I guess Dr. Kelly onto that.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you. What is the risk of being infected by a vaccinated person with COVID compared to an unvaccinated person with COVID?

So, just repeat the question.

[Malcolm Roberts] What is the risk of being infected by a vaccinated person who has COVID compared with an unvaccinated person with COVID?

Well, it’s lower. I’m not sure I can give you an exact amount. I think Professor Murphy earlier talked about the issue and also Senator Colbeck, about the issue of transmission and how the vaccine affects that. We’re getting more information, and it seems like there is a definite influence on transmission, decreasing transmission somewhere between 30 and 60% less likely.

[Malcolm Roberts] Is that a mass figure or is that if you had COVID and you were vaccinated compared with if you had COVID and weren’t vaccinated, would I have the same risk or lesser risk?

You would have a much lower risk, but it’s not zero.

[Malcolm Roberts] Okay, thank you. What decrease in transmission of infection would stop restrictions such as lockdowns, masks, and social distancing?

So, that’s a matter that we’ve been charged by national cabinet way as in Australian Health Protection Principal Committee of which I chair, by the national cabinet to look at. And so, it’s a matter for the national cabinet. There will be, there’s a series of papers that we’re preparing exactly to answer those questions. Some have been produced already and presented and there’ll be more in the coming meetings.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you. How many times and how often would each of us need to be injected for the vaccine to be effective and for each time, for how long does the effect last?

So, as I mentioned earlier in the hearing, very good protection from one dose of vaccine, either the AstraZeneca or Pfizer particularly in relation to severe infection, but also to symptomatic infection, and to a lesser extent asymptomatic infection. So, that’s a single dose. The second dose is important for both of those vaccines. And most of the vaccines that are currently being used around the world require two doses to give a longer effect and a more deep effect, if you like, in terms of protection. I think it’s very important that Australia knows that this is the start of our vaccine programme. It will almost certainly not be the end. There will be a need for boosters into the future particularly in relation to the variants of concern of which there are four now that have been designated by the World Health Organisation. And some of those we already know do affect the vaccine efficacy. So, it’s likely we will need to have boosters into the future. How long the two dose effect works is still, we don’t know. We know it’s at least six months because that’s the studies of, been looking at it for six months. It’s almost certainly longer than that for the original strain, but the variance of concern adds another complexity to it.

[Malcolm Roberts] Can you guarantee Australians that all the vaccines you have obtained are 100% safe?

I can’t say that they were 100% safe, Senator, no.

[Malcolm Roberts] I do appreciate your honesty. How many years will it be before we know the long-term and intergenerational effects of these vaccines that only have provisional approval?

I might ask my colleague from the TGA to come up to answer that one.

John Skerritt, Deputy Secretary, Health Products Regulation, also responsible for the TGA. So, TGA, unlike the U.S. and the UK, for example, did a provisional approval of a vaccines as opposed to an emergency use authorization. The reason why it is a provisional approval is because we don’t have, for example, as Professor Kelly has just said, information on the duration of protection from these vaccines. And we require that the companies to give us that sort of information in the coming years. I mean, no one has those answers now. There’s some encouraging results, but as Professor Kelly has said, it’s likely that further vaccinations will be required. As part of the approval of any medicine or vaccine, big companies together with us are involved in very extensive safety monitoring. And we publish the results of the safety monitoring of that vaccine every week including mild or 24 hour adverse events, right through to those that might be much more serious and require hospitalisation. And no medicine or vaccine is without adverse events, but on balance, the number of adverse events, especially serious adverse events for these vaccines are comparatively low. The overwhelming majority of people vaccinated from them at worst suffer the 24 or 48 hours sore arm or tiredness, fatigue, et cetera.

[Malcolm Roberts] So, thank you. It’s a very comprehensive response. So, to summarise, we don’t know yet, but you’re relying upon company, the vaccine makers, to feed you back information as time moves on.

No, information on safety comes from a wide range of sources. It comes from the states and territories. For GP vaccination agreements, the GPs make an undertaking to also report any adverse events. The companies are legally bound to report adverse events not only in Australia, but also globally. And of course we share, and in fact at nine, 10 o’clock tonight we’ll be having one of our regular fortnightly video conferences. We share information on adverse events with all the major regulators globally. So, and the final sources from a medical scientific literature. So, while the companies have this legal requirement to report, it’s only one of a number of inputs to understanding adverse events. And many of our adverse event reports come directly from doctors or even individuals. Any individual can report an adverse event directly to us.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you, moving onto another topic away from vaccines for a minute, the vaccine only has provisional approval. Is it true that provisional approval is only possible where there are no approved pharmaceutical treatments available?

The provisional approval is possible where there is not a similar treatment available in that, for that group of patients. And so, if there’d been an approved vaccine, but say it had been on the market for several years, fully approved, then it wouldn’t have been possible to provisionally approve a vaccine, but at the time of the submissions of those vaccines, and indeed we have provisionally designated the Novavax vaccine as well and the Johnson & Johnson or Janssen vaccine, it is possible to provisionally designate and potentially provisionally approve those vaccines.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you. Ivermectin is an antiviral that’s been proven safe in 3.6 billion human doses over 60 years. It’s now demonstrating success in treating COVID internationally, including in certain Indian states that are performing far better than the other states without it. Last time you were here, sorry Dr. Murphy and, Professor Murphy and Professor Kelly, you acknowledged that cures and preventatives are a fundamental and complimentary part of a virus management strategy. What is your timeline for the assessment and use of Ivermectin in light of the emerging evidence and it’s historical setting.

Senator, we have not received a submission for Ivermectin for the treatment of COVID. I have had a number of people write to me and say, “Why haven’t you folks approved?” We can’t make a medicine submission to ourselves for regulatory approval. There’s no provision in law for us because it requires a legal sponsor. But we have said to people if you come with a dossier of information we will review it as a priority. Now, if you go to the broader community including the company that is the main originator company that is a sponsor of Ivermectin, they do not believe that the overwhelming balance of evidence actually supports that Ivermectin being effective in the prophylaxis or prevention or the treatment of COVID. However, our doctors and scientists would look at that evidence with open eyes. And so, it is open for any sponsor to put an application in for Ivermectin to the TGA for regulatory approval.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you. Moving back to the vaccine, the government has provided an indemnity to vaccine suppliers, as I understand it, and multinational pharmaceutical companies who have caused harm in the past. What is the nature of the indemnities that government has provided, and are they full indemnities?

Yeah, just give me a moment. Sorry, Senator, going to a wholly different part of my folder.

[Malcolm Roberts] You’ve got a lot on your plate.

So, just to go to your question, I understand it. You’re wanting to know exactly the nature of the indemnities provided, obviously–

[Malcolm Roberts] That the government has provided to the vaccine manufacturers and suppliers.

So, in the first instance to say that the actual detail of the indemnities is part of the Commercial in Confidence contracts, but I can provide you some information about the nature of what’s provided. So, we’ve agreed to certain indemnities with the COVID-19 vaccine suppliers. They’re contained in commercially confidential contracts. The indemnities are designed to operate if there are problems with the flow on from the vaccines themselves, as opposed to the manner of administration and so on, they don’t cover that. Details of the agreement are Commercial in Confidence, but nothing in any of the contractual agreements from individual companies would stop individuals from seeking to litigate should an individual seek to do so in the future.

[Malcolm Roberts] Sorry, could you repeat that again, please.

So, the actual detail of the indemnity, it relates to the nature of the vaccine itself as opposed to the manner of administration or any other issue to do with how it’s transported and so on. But it is absolutely the case that nothing in the indemnities prevents an individual from taking an action against the manufacturer or against anybody, if there’s an issue that arises from the impact of the vaccine. So, the summary of the arrangements are that they ensure that manufacturers have the significant indemnity in place to allow them to come into the marketplace and provide the protection, but they don’t prevent any action being taken by an individual who might be affected by a vaccine.

[Malcolm Roberts] So, what would they be? Why would they need an indemnity if they, they can still be sued? I don’t understand that. I’m not a lawyer, but.

I was once, but it’s a long time ago.

[Malcolm Roberts] You could say, I’m honest with you. Now, we’ve got lawyers as good friends. We’ve got good friends.

So, no one’s saying I’m . It’s to do with the relationship between the government and the company.

[Malcolm Roberts] What is the nature of that relationship?

Well, those are the things that are confidential in the contracts. You’d appreciate in order to get these vaccines into Australia so that we have access to them, there are strict requirements in the way the contracts are done with the companies and confidentiality. And the nature of the indemnities are part of that confidentiality.

[Malcolm Roberts] In the event of an injury or death from the vaccine, who pays compensation?

Not a question I can answer in the abstract. It would depend on the circumstances and so on and how the legal process would go on. As I say, the indemnities with manufacturers relate only to the flow on from the vaccine itself. So, in the event that negligence happens in any mechanism then it could be actionable against the person who had done the negligence, but there’s no simple answer to who pays compensation ’cause compensation would have to be found to be payable and attributable to someone and so on.

[Malcolm Roberts] So, it’d be pretty challenging, Ms. Edwards, for an individual to sue that they’ve just lost their spouse or their son or daughter, because, I’ll just go through some of the settlements in the past or some of the fines. Pfizer has paid the second largest pharmaceutical settlement in history, $2.3 billion in 2009, off-label promotion and kickbacks plus US$ 430 million in 2004 for off-label promotion. AstraZeneca has paid US$ 520 million in 2010 off-label promotion and kickbacks and US$ 355 million in 2003 for Medicare fraud. Johnson & Johnson has paid US$ 2.2 billion in 2013 for off label promotion and kickbacks plus millions in Australia last year for defective pelvic mesh implants. It’d be a pretty brave person that would hope to get anything out of this if they tried to sue any of these companies. These guys have a history of dodging.

Well, I’m not aware of any of the instances you’re referring to, but clearly there have been instances in which action has been taken against these companies.

[Malcolm Roberts] Are these companies appropriate to be entered into an agreement in this way? I mean, look at the history.

So, the Australian government and Australian consumers have the advantage of pharmaceutical products produced by companies such as these and many others. Obviously, enormously important to the health of Australians that they have access to medicines, including vaccines. We rely heavily on the scientific advice from the CMO, from the TGA and from experts as to what is the appropriate vaccine to be approved and used in the country. And those are the vaccines which we have purchased and are administering.

[Malcolm Roberts] I’m going–

[Member] Senator Roberts…

Senator, I think that perhaps I might throw this in In relation to this. The approvals for the vaccines have been based on a considerable amount of data. The approvals haven’t been provided lightly. And we have had the advantage of the visibility of the application of the vaccines in a number of other jurisdictions. It’s an important question that you ask, I think. And so, it’s not a company reputational issue, it’s actually the data that supports the application of the vaccines that is assessed by not only our regulatory authorities, but also the regulatory authorities in other jurisdictions. And also the fact that, as has already been indicated, there is a lot of discussion between those authorities in relation to that data. So, it’s interrogated as a part of the approval process not only in this jurisdiction, but in others, and I might…

[Malcolm Roberts] I understand it’s, perhaps you could also include reference to this Doctors Skerritt that some of the overseas nations that are using these vaccines have suspended their use.

Well, there’s several questions. I’ll return to suspension of use although it’s been relatively limited in countries like Norway. But to talk about those fines for the companies, I should clarify that it’s a consequence of one of the things that personally I hope Australia never follows. And this is the U.S. widespread advertising directly to the public of prescription medicines. And it is legal and extremely commonplace. You only have to have the TV on for five minutes in your hotel room to see an advertisement for prescription medicine in the United states. And however, it is tempting for some of these companies. And they’ve been found with major fines from court cases when they push for sorts of conditions, what we call the indications for which a medicine is approved. So, a medicine may be approved for certain sorts of arthritis and their marketing people think it’s a great idea to talk about arthritis in general, and that’s where they get these multi hundred million dollar fines. So, if you go into those cases in the U.S. it’s not about them providing defective vaccines or cheating with their quality data or cheating with their clinical data. Almost all those cases come down to inappropriate promotion because of the, I guess the temptation the United States systems offers of allowing to advertise prescription medicines directly to the public. Now, thank God we don’t have that system in this country.

[Malcolm Roberts] That’s still a matter of ethics, though, isn’t it? That the companies are pushing that, it’s their marketing people they are employing.

It’s their marketing people, and of course, we could mention many well-known Australian corporations who have also had challenges with marketing, including of telecommunication services. Now, we also —

[Malcolm Roberts] But they also go to the essence of integrity of the company?

But in Australia, we do look closely at promotion, including to doctors. So, recently we fined a particular company over $300,000 for what we concluded was inappropriate promotion of opiates to doctors. This wasn’t of a general public, but it was still inappropriate in our view. So, we will take action if we believe promotion of a product is inappropriate. Now, talking about companies in countries that have suspended vaccines, there were a number of short term suspensions of vaccines. For example, when some deaths in aged care were reported very early in the new year, they were then lifted off after further investigation where it was found that sadly people die in aged care. And the death rates were not all that different from the expected death rates. There were then short term changes, suspensions in some countries after the initial clotting cases were found AstraZeneca. In most countries, although Norway, for example, was an exception, most countries have re-introduced those vaccines, but like Australia, many of them have age recommendations. And those ages vary between countries.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you.

Senator Roberts, you’ve just run out of time. So, if you’ve got one more question.

[Malcolm Roberts] Okay. After the TGA had already provisionally approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, Minister Hunt said of the vaccines quote – “The world is engaged in the largest clinical trial, the largest global vaccination trial ever”. Australians later died of blood clots due to the vaccine, a side effect that was not known prior to provisional approval. Why should Australians be the lab rats of a drug trial?

So, the word trial really, I mean, the treatment of COVID. And none of us has a crystal ball, where we’ll end up, whether it’s opening the borders or changes to the way we live our lives in a year or two is probably one of the biggest societal trials we’ve had since World War II. So, it’s true to say that because we don’t know whether vaccines are 100%, 90%, 80%, 70, 50, 60 in preventing transmission because we don’t know about the duration of protection, all those things. It is a trial in the sense that anything is new. So, that was a context. If you look at the wider context in which the Minister made those comments. Now, on the issue of benefit versus risk, every medicine or vaccine has significant risks. There’s been many dozen deaths due to Panadol in this country. And yet, if we didn’t have that drug for the relief of simple fever and so forth, there’d be a lot of people suffering. And so, every medicine has its benefits and its risks. Now, because the clotting thing is very rare, even though the trials were extremely large as trials go, 20, 30,000 people, and there’s been another 30,000 people on a follow-up trial of the AstraZeneca. Those numbers were still too low, but you would predict something would be seen 10 in a million times. And so, that’s why the clotting thing was not picked up.

[Malcolm Roberts] Isn’t there still something really big, outstanding though and that is that these are an RNA vaccine?

[Professor John] No, the AstraZeneca vaccine–

[Malcolm Roberts] Some of them, sorry, are RNA. How long before we know the intergenerational effects?

[Professor John] There’s no evidence at all from animal or human studies that the RNA vaccines, if you’re talking about them, incorporate into the genetic material of human beings. They wouldn’t have been approved for regulatory approval and that includes by much bigger regulators such as the FDA, if these bits of mRNA incorporated into the human genetic material. In fact, medicines that incorporate into human genetic material and are inherited are currently not permitted in most major countries, including Australia.

[Malcolm Roberts] So, what you’re saying is that it is okay to have a few deaths?

I’m saying that every medicine or vaccine is assessed both before it goes onto the market and once it’s on the market based on benefit and risk. And in Australia, we’ve had, sadly, one death. We’ve had a number of cases of this clotting syndrome, but the really encouraging thing is that many of our cases seem to be milder than in our countries. And that’s because of such widespread awareness. These cases are picked up early, they’re put in hospitals, even if it’s minor clotting, and the really good news is that, the overwhelming majority of those people were already out of hospital.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you, Chair.

I talked to Marcus Paul last week about our motion to keep our Judaeo-Christian values in our education system and questioned why ivermectin wasn’t available in Australia when it has been proven safe.

Transcript

[Marcus Paul] Tell me about this motion you put in front of me here. I give notice that on the next day of sitting, I nearly said another word then. I shall move that the Senate, what?

[Malcolm Roberts] Well, that the Senate actually makes sure that the national curriculum, includes Judeo-Christian heritage as the basis for our laws and customs.

[Marcus Paul] Right?

[Malcolm Roberts] We want that in the national curriculum, because in 2014, there was a review by two people called Donnelly and Wiltshire, into the national curriculum. And they recommended more emphasis, more emphasis on our Judeo-Christian heritage Because that’s the role it played in Western civilization and contributing to our society and making our laws and our culture. And lo and behold, when the 2020 national curriculum recommendations came out, they had a de-emphasis on our Judeo-Christian heritage and going over a bit more to the, what could you say, the flavours of the month? You know, the fads.

[Marcus Paul] Like?

[Malcolm Roberts] And so what we wanted the basics back.

[Marcus Paul] Hang on. Like?

[Malcolm Roberts] Well they want to emphasise that the First Nations people think that there was an invasion. They want to emphasise that there are other multicultural aspects of Australia. Now we’ve got no problems with that at all but we’ve got to make sure that the basis of our culture the basis of our laws, gets prominence and not, is not removed.

[Marcus Paul] Yeah, or we could just focus on teaching kids how to add up and to construct a sentence.

[Malcolm Roberts] Ah Marcus, that’d be wonderful.

[Marcus Paul] All right. The federal budget, you say that there’s been a lack of spending on visionary infrastructure to improve our productive capacity. We’ve continued to ignore the basics, energy and tax which are vital for manufacturing.

[Malcolm Roberts] Yes, that’s right. You know, we talked many times about tax and about energy costs. The energy costs are artificially high. We went from being the cheapest electricity in the world, Marcus, to being amongst the most expensive all because of artificial regulations that are not needed. We are exporting our coal to China where they sell electricity made from our coal at 8 cents a kilowatt hour. Our cost here, our price here is three times that all because of the rubbish regulations.

[Marcus Paul] Yeah.

[Malcolm Roberts] And so what we’re really doing is we’re exporting jobs to China because our manufacturers leave here and go to China or other places in Asia that use our coal and don’t have our stupid governance. So what we’ve got to do is get back to basics and stop all the subsidies destroying our electricity sector and also fix the tax system because, you know, we talked about that at length last week. So probably don’t need to go into that, but they’re the things that are really destroying our country. And instead of killing jobs, we need to create jobs and we need to build our productive capacity in terms of our infrastructure, things like dams in particular, power stations, so that we have cheap reliable water and cheap, reliable, stable power. They’re the basics for any society. And, you know, we’re letting the UN, Warragamba Dam wall. They wanted to raise that and they’re not allowed because of the UN’s world heritage agreement. Well, I didn’t elect the UN I want, I want to budget for us.

[Marcus Paul] Yeah. Very true. All right, mate, now there’s plenty in there for women’s services in relation to domestic violence, which all of us agree is worthwhile. You say, but nothing for men. What do you mean by that?

[Malcolm Roberts] Yes. And that’s a really good point that you raised Marcus. I know an outstanding group. That’s doing phenomenal work on a voluntary basis and they’re really supporting men and women. They’re not specifying only men, just men and women and also kids and families. Family law system is really crook and it’s devastating people’s lives. It’s the slaughter house of the nation. And what he’s finding is that he can get no support from the federal government in terms of providing counselling services that he is putting on voluntarily and getting volunteers to do. I mean, it’s an amazing network that he’s got. He’s just opened offices in Newcastle, Australian brotherhood of fathers. So, but the point is that we know domestic violence is perpetrated by men on women. We also know that domestic violence is perpetrated by women on men, but only one side of the story comes out. And only one side of the equation gets the funding. So men are vulnerable too, and they need to be protected and need to be funded.

[Marcus Paul] All right, there was plenty of money for mental health, the national disability insurance scheme, aged care. But the reality is, is that the money will never get spent. You say.

[Malcolm Roberts] Much of it won’t get spent Marcus, because we don’t have the professionals. I mean, I was at an aged care rally here, aged care health and safety, health services union on Monday. Sorry. Yeah. Monday morning.

[Marcus Paul] Yeah. Monday it was.

[Malcolm Roberts] Here in Canberra and I mean they’re wonderful people I know from my parents care is they’re wonderful people and they work very, very hard. They’re under extreme emotional stress but they can’t get enough because of the pay rates. But the other thing is they can’t get enough of the professionals and registered nurses and they can’t get enough of the psychologists in when it comes to the NDIS and other professionals. So we won’t be able to have the services anyway. We’ve got to focus on getting these areas fixed.

[Marcus Paul] Okay. Well, I mean, I don’t disagree at all. I mean, the whole thing in particular, in my opinion has been packaged to look pretty good. You know, it’s a, it’s a budget that’s full of plenty of promises, almost like a labor-esque budget if you like, but there’s apparently more money. And this is what, a point I wanted to come to. And this is where I think people like you and Pauline Hanson need to really hold these people accountable in parliament. Apparently there’s some sort of war chest. So there’s billions of dollars that’s been set aside for, you know, the election campaign not too far away. So in other words, they’ve held off on some things and rather than spend the money now or put it toward, you know, extra money toward mental health or extra money toward the aged care sector, et cetera people suggesting that they’ve kept it aside for, I dunno future pork barreling or promises ahead of the next federal election.

[Malcolm Roberts] That could be right. And you raise a fantastic point there because what’s happening is that with both the main old parties the tired old parties, they do exactly what you’re saying. And what voters don’t seem to realise is they’re having an auction with the voters money.

[Marcus Paul] There we go.

[Malcolm Roberts] And the voters are bidding those prices up. So we’re doing it to ourselves as voters but we need to hold these people accountable. And that’s what Pauline and I will be doing. She was, budget papers are very, very thick and detailed. So she was already discussing with me in the Senate in a quiet moment, some ridiculous expenditure. I can’t remember the exact one that, that she raised but it was just outlandish. So they’re the things that we will do in the coming weeks going through the details and exposing them. But you’re absolutely right. We’ve got to stop this budget that puts us on an annual cycle of making promises and stealing money from taxpayers to give to other tax payers.

[Marcus Paul] Some of it, to be honest is borrowed anyway but we’ll deal with that another time. We can’t travel overseas as we’ve learned probably until mid 22. The budget itself, many of the promises and many of the figures announced you know, predetermined on, you know the whole joint being vaccinated in time, et cetera. International students will be let back in in small phase programmes later this year. I mean, and I noticed yesterday in question time in the house of representatives, that we couldn’t get a straight answer from the prime minister. And even the health minister had to jump in and have his say. And he just muddied the waters further. Vaccines and whether or not our borders will be reopened is something that the government just can’t seem to answer at the moment.

[Malcolm Roberts] Yes. And that’s right. And there are too many uncertainties here and too many unknowns Marcus. First of all, the vaccine that the prime minister himself has come out and said it may not stop the spreading of the virus. What, well, hang on. It’s all based on that, and yet he’s admitting that it won’t necessarily stop the spread of the virus. The other thing Marcus, that people may not be aware of, is that there’s a drug called ivermectin. It’s been used for treating people in Africa all over the world. In fact, I’ll tell you someone else who’s been treated by it in a minute. This ivermectin is an antiviral and it’s been used for around six decades, 60 years ago.

[Marcus Paul] This was the stuff that Craig Kelly was spruiking. Yes?

[Malcolm Roberts] Well, he’s just picking it up from overseas. I mean, Craig’s doing a wonderful job that man I can tell right now, every interaction I’ve had with Craig, he’s solid on the data and he doesn’t open his mouth. But anyway, without the data, now, the thing is that ivermectin has been given in 3.7 billion doses to 3.7 billion people. It’s proven safe. It’s an antiviral.

[Marcus Paul] Why then, why then Malcolm is not on the list as a as a well I don’t know, as a as a vaccine for COVID-19. I’ve heard ivermectin, we’ve had we’ve heard all of the stories that was originally criticised as a bit of a conspiracy theory vaccine proposal. I respectfully understand that there are many scientists who agree that it could be used, but I just wonder, I mean we’ve just spent, what we’ve just bought another 25 million cases of a new vaccine, Moderna from the United States. If ivermectin was all it was cracked up to be, surely it would have already been authorised.

[Malcolm Roberts] Well, that’s the real point Marcus. That I was getting to. In many countries now ivermectin is legal and is being used and they’re desperate to get it into into place because it’s very safe. I went to India and developed a condition in India as a consultant over there in the mining industry in 2014. And I was given ivermectin by an Australian doctor here quite legally, I had no side effects. It was fantastic. So we know it’s proven around the world. There are more and more countries that are doing two things, bringing ivermectin in and more and more countries are now stopping the use of some of these vaccines for COVID vaccines because the blood clotting and other issues. So the reason I believe, well we’ve got to ask this question why aren’t we using ivermectin when it’s completely safe? It’s got no side effects. It’s killed no one. And, and it’s also being proven as effective with the virus. Why are we not using that when these unproven, untested vaccines or partially tested vaccines? And when we know so much, so little about them, why are we doing that? Is it because if there is a viable solution in ivermectin that the vaccine makers wouldn’t get their money?

[Marcus Paul] I dunno it could be you’re the Senator. And these are the questions that you will ask. I’m sure. Mate, I’ve got to go. I really appreciate it. Talk soon. There he is. Malcolm Roberts.

From last week on 2SM with Marcus Paul: why Christine Holgate was unfairly treated, how the government has bungled the vaccine rollout, the untapped potential of Queensland agriculture and more.

Transcript

[Marcus] G’day, Malcolm, how are you mate?

[Malcolm] I’m very well, thanks Marcus. How are you?

[Marcus] Well, I don’t have a $5,000 Cartier watch, do you?

[Malcolm] No, I don’t. And I’ll never buy one, but you know, that’s not the issue really at Australia Post. That’s what you’re talking about?

[Marcus] What is the issue, Malcolm? I mean, the whole thing in my mind, is really become a gender thing, which is a concern to me. Christine Holgate by all accounts, seems to be a pretty good operator, has she been unfairly punished here, do you think?

[Malcolm] Definitely there’s no doubt about that, Marcus. She did a remarkable job. She turned that, Australia Post around, from a big loss into, quite a substantial profit. And what surprised us, we were about to start holding the Government accountable about these Cartier watches.

[Marcus] Yeah.

[Malcolm] But we noticed that Angela Cramp, she’s the head of the licensed post office operators. You know, not all Australia Post, post offices are owned by the post office. They’re licensed out, to the licensed post office representatives. And Angela Cramp-

[Marcus] Franchisee’s, franchised.

[Malcolm] That’s it, thank you, thank you. So Angela Cramp jumped in strongly to support that and we thought, hang on, what’s going on here? Because we’ve worked very closely with the licensed post office operators and they’ve been really hard hit by, by Australia Post. What we found out, was that Christine Holgate, when I held her accountable in Senate estimates, when she first came on board, she actually took note of what I said.

And she followed up with Australia Post licenced post office operators and she helped them and started sorting out their problems. First time, in a long, long time, these guys have had any support. So they jumped in and supported Holgate, that alerted us, because we knew that that the LPOs weren’t in favour of the Australia Post executives normally.

And so then Pauline and I, both spoke with Holgate separately and then Pauline got the inquiry up, into what’s going on now after negotiating successfully with Labor, Greens and all the cross benchers. You just cannot treat people this way. I believe the Prime Minister is not telling the truth. Holgate is telling the truth. Holgate’s very competent, there are other issues here driving this.

The Prime Minister should apologise at the very least. And some of the statements from Australia Post, the Chairman of Australia Post and the ministers, just don’t add up. And I think the Prime Minister, if this keeps going the way it is, should resign, and you know at the very least Marcus, he must apologise. He must apologise.

[Marcus] Well, he doesn’t know how to say the word, sorry, Malcolm. We know that. He doesn’t take any responsibility for his actions. He likes to obfuscate. He likes to lay the blame elsewhere. He got fairly close yesterday by saying that he regrets any hurt, that Miss Holgate may well have felt, but he’s certainly not apologising.

[Malcolm] Yeah, exactly. And look, what does this say about the taxpayer funded empathy training? It’s gonna be a complete waste of time. The empathy training that the Liberal Nats have going on and what a lot of rubbish.

[Marcus] All right. Now, the vaccination rollout. Boy oh boy, you say it’s falling apart, mate?

[Malcolm] It is. There’s a critical thing here, that the Government has forgotten. It’s called informed consent. Before someone puts anything in my body, they need to get my consent. Now, the vaccine, there are two vaccines out there at the moment, the Astrazeneca and the Pfizer one.

We were told by the Chief Health Officer, that no one would know what vaccine was being distributed at which outlet, because they didn’t want people to come up and have a choice about the vaccine. I want this vaccine. I want that vaccine. That is completely unethical in my view. That’s the first thing.

The second thing is that they have rushed these vaccines. Both of them, they both have serious questions about them. Both, have bypassed some of the details in the testing procedures. The testing procedures have been accelerated, and now we’ve got problems. So, It’s the process here. The problem is the way the vaccine has been introduced, before proper trials.

[Marcus] All right.

[Malcolm] It’s a lack of data and there’s a lack of clear aims. And even the Minister for Health now, Greg hunt, has admitted that even with the vaccine, it won’t stop the restrictions. So what’s the point?

[Marcus] Fair enough. All right. Now, you’ve been out and about you’ve been in western Queensland, well, north and western Queensland. You’ve been to Townsville, Charters Towers, Hughenden, Richmond, Julia Creek, Cloncurry, You’re in Mt Isa as well. You’ve been looking at water infrastructure and potential for agriculture up there.

[Malcolm] Yes, and Marcus, what an amazing place this is. It’s untapped really. Big skies, big horizons, rich soil, plenty of sunlight, regular rain. And that’s what’s surprised us. The regular rain up here, at Richmond. And what’s really stunning up here, is that the local councils, the shire councils, have got off their backsides and started to stimulate thinking about irrigation projects, because they can turn this black soil and sunlight into bountiful production.

Richmond has now got, the Shire of Richmond, led by John Wharton, has got a project, that’ll cost a total of $210 million. Tiny amount, tiny amount of money. 8,000 hectares of irrigated land will come out of it. No dam, no dam whatsoever, just a diversion channel. Off flood seasons. ‘Cause the surprising thing is the rainfall is huge, but it comes at very short intervals and it’s very regular.

So they can basically get a diversion channel, take the flood water, harvest across the floodplains. So you’ve got no environmental impact of a dam and this whole area is buzzing. But what it needs is, is the government will, to actually get off their backsides and do it. The State Government is holding things back at the moment and the Federal Government is a bit lost. There seems to be a lack of vision in this country.

[Marcus] Well, I mean, look at the Murray-Darling basin. I mean, that’s been a complete and utter schmozzle. You would’ve thought lessons have been learned, mate?

[Malcolm] Well, you know, that’s really interesting. We’ve got the Murray-Darling basin has been decimated, by the Turnbull-Howard Water Act of 2007, which brought in the Murray-Darling basin authority. And it’s interesting. They changed from a highly successful, Murray-Darling basin commission in 2007, to the Murray-Darling basin authority.

That tells you what it’s about. The primary aims of the Murray-Darling basin of sorry of the Water Act in 2007, included the compliance with international agreements. What the hell are we doing that for, in our country? So they’ve made a mess of the Murray-Darling basin and it’s helped the corporates, destroyed farming communities, destroyed family farms.

And we’ve actually got people up here now, with a tonne of energy, from the northern New South Wales area of the Murray-Darling basin, and they’re making a go of things up here and just getting in and rolling up their sleeves and tearing into it. They’re doing a wonderful job.

[Marcus] Good to hear, Malcolm and great to have you on the programme as always. We’ll talk again next week.

[Malcolm] Thank you very much, Marcus. Have a good week mate.

[Marcus] My pleasure, you too mate. There he is, One nation Senator, Malcolm Roberts. Somebody sent me a note yesterday. Marcus, “Why just, why oh why,” “do you speak to people like Malcolm and Pauline” “and also Mark Latham?” Well Malcolm Robert’s, just explained it perfectly this morning.

I mean he and Pauline Hanson, spoke to Christine Holgate initially, when she took on the job at Australia Post and she took their advice, turned things around. You know, these people, do hold the balance of power. Quite often, they are voting and the government depends on their votes, to get important legislation across the line.

So I would argue they’re actually, some of the most important politicians to speak to on the programme, because ultimately they have to weigh everything up. They have to listen to all sides of politics and then decide which way they want to go. That’s why we talk to people like Malcolm Roberts.