Posts

Transparency is vital when it comes to taxpayer funds. During this session, I asked the Department of Climate Change for a comprehensive breakdown of the 2026-27 international travel budget across the climate change and energy portfolios, specifically requesting data on employee numbers and trip durations. In response, officials said they could not provide these details upfront, explaining that travel decisions are handled purely on a case-by-case basis.

Pointing to data from the Minerals Council of Australia, I noted that average decision times for resource projects had blown out to 3.8 years by 2025. I asked the Minister whether these ludicrous delays are intentionally used to discourage applications and penalise proponents millions in holding costs.

I questioned whether the newly introduced artificial intelligence pilot would be utilised for actual decision-making or just data collection, with officials confirming humans will remain the ultimate decision-makers.

I argued that the current environmental laws and sluggish approval processes act as a disaster for economic growth, stifling the mining sector, our number one exporter, and choking off funds needed for essential social and welfare programs.

While the government claims recent reforms aim to speed up approvals, the ongoing red tape continues to threaten breadwinner jobs and our standard of living.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. I appreciate your direct answers. This next question comes up frequently, so I assume you have the data on hand. What is your budget for international travel within the climate change and energy portfolios—that’s wages, airfare and accommodation—in the 2026-27 financial year? Could you include a breakdown of how much over how many days for how many employees?  

Ms Munro: These decisions, in terms of what the required travel is, are always taken on a case-by-case basis. A lot of the work that we do is done virtually, and it’s really by exception that there will be that international travel, but it is necessary to build the relationships and to negotiate outcomes. That’s the responsibility that the government has given us. We don’t have the detail that you are asking for, given that we need to plan through what are going to be the priorities for this year, and, as I said, we make those decisions almost on a case-by-case basis.  

Senator ROBERTS: Could you give me a broad idea of the categories of considerations that will go into that or could go into it.  

Ms Munro: Go into travel?  

Senator ROBERTS: Selecting travelling companions.  

Ms Munro: Yes, we’re happy to.  

Dr Box: There are a range of factors that we consider. Value for money is obviously a very big consideration. Another is whether the intended meeting outcomes are of significant benefit for Australia’s climate, energy, environment and water agenda. We also consider whether virtual or alternative representation options aren’t suitable, and, of course, all approved travel requests include a contingency. We look at the intended meeting outcomes and whether virtual participation is available and, of course, value for money as an overarching consideration in coordination with the PGPA Act.  

Senator ROBERTS: Value for money is a pretty subjective thing. It depends on the goals of your party going there. Coming back to the EPBC Act, your website page for the new national environmental standards under the EPBC Act does not appear to have been updated for some time. It still says that the circulation draft of the new standard would be made available in April, and it wasn’t. When will the new standard be made available to senators?  

Senator Watt: I’m not sure when that research was done, but, in the last month, we have begun a second round of consultation on two of those national environmental standards. In outcome 2, we’ll be able to talk to you at length about that. 

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. As things stand, the EPBC Act is, in our opinion—we differ on this, no doubt—a disaster for economic growth in Australia. The Minerals Council of Australia said, and I quote: Average decision times for resources projects have increased by 60 per cent, from 2.3 years in 2019 to 3.8 years in 2025 … What steps are you taking to increase your throughput?  

Senator Watt: Again, we could have an extended conversation about this in outcome 2, but that was exactly one of the key reasons for the reforms that we passed in the parliament last year. I know you voted against them, but one of the key objectives of those reforms was to speed up decision-making on projects after that blowout of timeframes that you referred to, and we’re confident that will happen.  

Senator ROBERTS: I note that the budget—and you’ve answered a related question from Senator Waters— includes a measure for introducing AI. Will that help in data collection and analysis or will that be actually making decisions?  

Senator Watt: Again, we can talk about this in more detail in outcome 2, but the primary purpose of that AI pilot and tool is essentially to help proponents in preparing their applications. There are people who know a lot more about it than me who will be available to talk to you about it in outcome 2.  

Mr Kaiser: I’ll just add to the minister’s answer an important principle in the application of AI in the public sector generally, and including in this department, is that humans remain the decision-makers.  

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, are you using ludicrously long delays in approvals for minerals projects to discourage application for minerals projects?  

Senator Watt: No.  

Senator ROBERTS: On a $500 million project, the holding cost of the project across a 3.8-year development application cycle will cost the proponents $25 million per year—almost $100 million total across 3.8 years to four years. How is this not a financial penalty on applicants caused by a procedural failure in your department?  

Senator Watt: Again, we can have an extended conversation about this in outcome 2, but a key objective behind the EPBC reforms was to speed up assessments and approvals of projects.  

Senator ROBERTS: Let’s get a benchmark going. How many applications for resource projects with a project cost in excess of $50 million are you currently holding, and what is the average age of those projects?  

Senator Watt: There will be officials available to answer those sorts of questions in outcome 2.  

Senator ROBERTS: What is your expectation for reductions in this figure of 3.8 years? When will the EPBC laws stop getting in the way of economic growth and the breadwinner jobs that go with minerals projects?  

Senator Watt: Again, we can talk about that in more detail in outcome 2.  

Senator ROBERTS: Can we talk about mining being a driver of the economy, of standard of living, and the six-to-one jobs multiplier in coalmines?  

Senator Watt: In my opening statement, Senator Roberts—and I realise you weren’t here for that—I referred to the fact that, along with greater protections for the environment, one of the key objectives behind the EPBC reforms was to speed up decisions around housing, energy and critical minerals projects.  

Senator ROBERTS: One of the things that’s become clear with new Labor is that it appeals to activists to get more votes.  

Senator Watt: That’s your view.  

Senator ROBERTS: Is the government aware, Minister, that obstructing resource projects stifles funds for social and welfare programs for caring for people?  

Senator Watt: I would agree with the general proposition that economic development delivers economic wealth for the country that can be used for those sorts of social services.  

Senator ROBERTS: And mining is a key to developing economic—  

Senator Watt: It’s a big industry. I recognise that.  

Senator ROBERTS: Number one exporter.  

Senator Watt: It’s a big industry. 

One Nation always aims to protect honest workers, protect small businesses and simplify our Industrial Relations (IR) system. The current IR reforms need a lot of work to achieve that.

Transcript

[Marcus Paul]

G’day, Malcolm.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Good morning, Marcus, how are you?

[Marcus Paul]

I’m okay. I’m just having a little chuckle at the wankfest going on in the United States at the moment. I get that it’s a momentous occasion. I understand every time a President’s inaugurated that they have to get celebrities up there to sing songs and carry on. But for God’s sake, enough’s enough, surely.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yeah, I’ve travelled through all 50 American States. I’ve lived there for five years. I’ve studied at one of the top universities over there and I’ve worked over there in eight different states. And I love Americans. They’re absolutely fabulous people, but they’re different. You know, in many ways they look like us. They dress like us. They have similar habits, they’re casual and they’re formal like us, they love us. But mate, they just go over the top when it comes to celebrating things. it’s just for Australians, it’s too much.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, you’d think that there’s no issue with COVID-19. You’d think that America is all this, there’s no social inequality. You think that there’s no civil unrest. It’s all, I don’t know, look, I’m seeing right now the presidential motorcade with the military escorting Joe Biden back to the White House, the bloke looks like he needs a good lie down.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yeah, it’s a contradiction in America. Wherever I went you can see contradiction. And, you can get a very energetic country like America but there are so many, so many inequalities as well. But there’s one thing that’s very strong in Americans and that’s the love of their country and their passion for freedom. And so, I think there’ll be a lot of Americans holding their breath right now.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, mate. Now you’re on the road driving down the New South Wales coast, you’re around Singleton, are you?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yes, and what a beautiful day it is. I used to live in Singleton, worked here several times but it’s a glorious day and blue sky. We just driven up the Valley from Singleton. We’re now in Musswelbrook and we went past Bayswater and Liddell Power Station. It’s just absolutely beautiful.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, nice, now the federal government’s so-called industrial relations reforms, you’ve had a fair bit to say about that ahead of Senate estimates hearings in March.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, they’re going to try and bring in the legislation into the Senate fairly soon, it’s an inquiry at the moment but we’ve had a good look at it and we still got a lot more work to do on it. But Marcus, you know, our aims are always to protect honest workers, to protect small business. And, in this case, to restore productive capacity. And you know, the government is really just playing at this, it’s not addressing energy, it’s not addressing tax, it’s not addressing infrastructure, it’s not addressing over regulation. It’s still making life hard for people. It’s not a real reform at all, it’s just tinkering to look after his mates and the overriding thing with this so-called industrial relations reform, it’s not reform, it’s tinkering with the deck chairs on the Titanic is that their aim seems to be to not upset anyone and to try and please everyone. And whenever you do that, Marcus, you’re coming out of fear.

[Marcus Paul]

Yes.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And so they’re afraid. And that means the country will suffer. These regulations, they don’t simplify and small business badly needs that. The key aspect of this supposed reform from the Prime Minister is to get jobs, mate.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Roberts]

It won’t get any jobs. It’s just gonna make things more complex. There are some positives in there but there are overwhelmingly a lot of negatives. We’re just going to have to do a lot of work on this.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, now, obviously, on this trip down the coast you’ve been catching up with people who may have reached out to you, made contact, what are you hearing on the ground?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, first of all, I’ve got to say how beautiful the country is on the coast coming south down through New South Wales. It’s just green, it’s glorious. And people, I’ve heard from small business, for example, a guy who run, well, I won’t tell you his business because it’s a boutique business and I don’t want anyone to come back on him but he was really talking about how difficult life is under state, federal and local government. Because they’re making things complex.

[Marcus Paul]

Absolutely, could you imagine all that bloody red tape a business owner has to go through these days? It’s just, it’s almost —

[Malcolm Roberts]

But, Marcus, he was telling me things like if you get a permit from the state government to do something and then by the time you’ve finished dealing with regulations for the local government, the state government permits have expired and you’ve got to get it again. And that means more fees. And he was talking about 20, $30,000, I think, 50, $45,000 in one case, just to get consultants in to do the work for the local government. You can’t afford that.

[Marcus Paul]

No.

[Malcolm Roberts]

But one good piece of news. We visited a workshop here in Philly, a large workshop here, well, in Rutherford which is near Maitland. And they’re telling us, they do a lot of work for agriculture and mining machinery and they’re telling us that the price of coal has gone up quite a bit and they’re hiring again which is good for the Valley. And it’s really good for the whole Hunter Valley and Newcastle because most people don’t realise this but for every job in the coal mine there are six other jobs depending upon those jobs. And so the price of coal and the use of coal is extremely important to everyone in New South Wales.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, look, you know, you’ve got a bloke up there in the Hunter who is making a fair bit of noise. I’m sure he’s scaring the pants off of Joel Fitzgibbon but, I don’t know, if things are looking okay or a little better up there in the Hunter maybe Joel might hold on a little bit.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, the problem with Joel is his party. His party won’t let him do things. His party has got their foot on the throat of the coal industry and they’re determined to kill the coal industry. I mean, some of the senior people in the labour party have admitted that and said that is what they want to do. And it’s insane. One of the things I did coming down the New South Wales coast, I’m doing a bit of research in southern New South Wales in the next couple of days and I stopped in Port Macquarie and worked for a day and a half with an absolutely astounding Scientist there who’s been going through the Bureau of Meteorology records and mate, the records are just so shoddy and he’s done advanced statistical analysis. Once he’s removed all the the deliberate movements or adjustments. And there’s no warming at all going on. So, this whole thing about coal is just a beat up.

[Marcus Paul]

Yep, all right. Now, well, just on coal, of course, the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, he’s had a lot to say. Oh, by the way, when you visit these places, do you don on your high vis shirt and you untuck the top of the collar just to show a little bit of chest hair, look all macho like you’re in the moment? And do you have your professional photographer tailing your every move for a photo opp, Malcolm? I’m just wondering.

[Malcolm Roberts]

No, that’s not me. What I’m doing is I’m driving by myself. This morning I’ve got some of my, one of my staff with me but I’ve been driving down the coast on my own. I make all my own arrangements. Take my own notes, I just listen to people because you can’t listen to people through others. You’ve got to listen by firsthand, direct.

[Marcus Paul]

Fair enough.

[Malcolm Roberts]

So, I don’t go for all that crap.

[Marcus Paul]

Well said. All right, mate, listen, we’ve got a listener Gail Thornton who follows the programme. We want you to say hello. Can you just do me a favour, say, good day, Gail. Hope you’re having a wonderful morning. Just say that for me.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Good day, Gail, hope you’re having a great morning.

[Marcus Paul]

See, Gail says on our Facebook page and I’ll have to tell you, you got a little bit of hate on our social media. Mind you, I get a lot of hate on my social media as well. That’s just what it’s all about. But your posts, when we re-share things that you know you and I have a chat about a certain issue, it’s one of the, this is what I don’t get, this is the hypocrisy with it all and on this programme, we will speak to anybody, labour, liberal, callithumpian, you know, we have Pauline, yourself and also Mark Latham. So, we listen to all sorts, we try to as much as we can. We would love to have the Prime Minister or the Premier on here, but they don’t even know we exist or they probably know we exist but their media people don’t want them to come on because they’re probably upset that I’ll- first question to the Premier would be, when are you going to resign? And the second question to the Prime Minister would be, do you take any responsibility for robo-debt? And what about the thousands of people that have possibly taken their lives? So, that’s why they don’t come on. But your stuff that we talk about is well-received, you know, you gotta have your haters for those to really like you, Malcolm, but Gail says, there’s no way that we will listen to anything Malcolm Roberts has to say. So, I just wanted you to say good morning to Gail. She’s one of your biggest fans, I think.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, tell her that I’ll be very happy to meet her. And I look forward to her giving me evidence that contradicts my arguments.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, that’s it. Good on you, mate. Always great to catch up, drive safely. You can’t drop by and visit us, I hear.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Not this time, I was wanting to do that and I’ve got two outstanding retired people in Sydney that I want to meet because they’re both very, very good on water. And that’s a critical issue for us but I was hoping to drop in. But if I go anywhere near Sydney, then, mate, I’ve got to lock up in quarantine in Brisbane when I go back. So, even if I just don’t get out of the car. I’ve just got to lock up. So, I’m going to drive through Mudgee and then that way down through Bathurst and then to Canberra that way, so it’s an extra drive but, hey, that’s the way it has to do.

[Marcus Paul]

Ah, look, we’re broadcasting out into those regions right now and it’s pretty good out there as well. You reckon it’s green on the coast. You should see it inland. It’s just gorgeous around 2MG Mudgee area and out to Bathurst to our station 2BS and out to Orange . I love it out there, mate. Look after yourself.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Thanks Marcus. We’ve got to look after this country and stop the wombats ruining it, the wombats in Canberra.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, mate, bye-bye. Malcolm Roberts, Marcus Paul in the morning.