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The 1,535 Page Dodge

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During this Senate estimates, I confronted officials over their “dodge” of my earlier question regarding M1 motorway works between Brisbane and the Gold Coast. Instead of a brief summary, they dumped a staggering 1,535 pages of unindexed data on my office, effectively telling my staff, who have already been halved by resourcing cuts, to dig through it themselves while conveniently handing spreadsheets directly to other senators.

Minister Chisholm tried to defend this bureaucratic brush-off as “too much information,” however I pointed out that “burying answers is not transparency”.

I went on to request a real, functional summary of all federal funding for M1 roadworks and the officials finally put the data on the record. Mr Brummitt walked through a comprehensive list of projects spanning current commitments, planning phases, and completed upgrades.

In total, the Australian government’s commitment is $2.2 billion to M1 projects since 2019. While I’m glad we finally got the numbers, it shouldn’t take a grilling in estimates just to get a straightforward summary. Transparency matters!

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here again. It seems like only yesterday, doesn’t it?  

CHAIR: It’s their pleasure.  

Senator ROBERTS: In February estimates, I asked a question regarding the extent of works on the M1 motorway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast. Mr Bourne replied that there were a lot of projects on the M1 and offered to take the question on notice. Your answer on notice, SQ-26, said that the information on M1 projects can be found in documents tabled by the secretary on 9 February 2026. These are the first few pages of the documents. There are 1,535 pages, covering all of your projects, some of them going back to grants awarded in 2014—12 years ago. I interpret this answer to be you telling my staff to find the answer themselves amongst the 1,535 pages of data. You provided another senator with a spreadsheet electronically. Do you dispute my interpretation?  

Mr Bourne: Senator, that document holds all the information in relation to the question that you asked.  

Senator ROBERTS: The Prime Minister & Cabinet document on the correct behaviour of estimates witnesses and the privileges committee rulings over the years all require a witness to provide a full and accurate answer. Minister, how is this any sort of answer, let alone a full and accurate one? I asked for a summary.  

Senator Chisholm: Thanks, Senator Roberts. I think Mr Bourne said it was full and accurate information. It might have been more information than you needed; that is the suggestion. I feel as though it’s a bit critical to be disappointed at receiving too much information.  

Senator ROBERTS: Well, you’ve cut our staff in half. We have only limited staff. We can’t go through 1,535 pages. It’s organised by state, not by project. We wanted the M1 project. The M1 project is not even named. You gave Senator Canavan a spreadsheet but not us. Burying the answer in 1,535 pages is not an answer, not a summary. So, I repeat my question. You can take it on notice. Please provide a summary of all roadworks funded at any point in their project life cycle, in whole or part, by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts on the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast. 

Mr Bourne: I’ll just ask my colleague Mr Brummitt to take you through that.  

Mr Brummitt: I’ll run through the projects in order. The M1 Pacific Motorway, Daisy Hill to Logan motorway, is in progress, with an Australian government commitment of $50 million.  

Senator ROBERTS: Was that 50 or 15?  

Mr Brummitt: Fifty.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you.  

Mr Brummitt: The M1 Pacific Motorway exit 45 north is in planning. That’s a $10 million commitment. That was a budget commitment, a new project. The construction funding for the M1 Pacific Motorway, Daisy Hill to Logan motorway, exit 45, is a $10 million commitment, with a total project cost of $20 million. For the construction funding for the M1 Pacific Motorway, Daisy Hill to Logan motorway, which has not commenced construction yet, there is an Australian government commitment of $450 million, with a total project cost of $900 million. The M1 Pacific Motorway Varsity Lakes to Tugun was completed in 2025, with an Australian government commitment of $750 million and a total project cost of $1.5 billion. For the M1 Pacific Motorway upgrade program, exits 41 and 49, completed in 2025, there was an Australian government commitment of $117 million, with a total project cost of $234 million. For the M1 Pacific Motorway Eight Mile Plains to Daisy Hill, completed in 2025, there was a $510 million Australian government commitment and a $750 million total project cost. The M1 Pacific Motorway upgrade program, exit 45, completed in 2022, had a $7.3 million Australian government commitment, with a $14.6 million total project cost. The M1 Pacific Motorway upgrade program, Mudgeeraba to Varsity Lakes upgrade, was closed and the project was completed in 2020. We’re going back a little bit there, but I wanted to be as comprehensive as I could for you, Senator. That was a $194 million Australian government commitment, with a $217 million total project cost. Another one completed a while ago, in 2020, was the M1 Pacific Motorway upgrade, the Gateway Motorway/Pacific Motorway merge, with a $111.5 million Australian government commitment and a $189 million total project cost. Also, under the SEQ growth/Brisbane 2032 business case development program there are three planning projects in progress. That’s planning for the Pacific Motorway Worongary interchange improvement, which is a $1 million Australian government commitment, with a total project cost of $2.9 million. This is the project I mentioned earlier, and I’ll explain. For the Pacific Motorway exit 45 north business case, there was a $750 million contribution from the Australian government and a total project cost of $1.5 million. Then what was announced at budget was $10 million, which was additional funding for detailed design and pre-construction work to get that project really shovel ready and well prepared. The final one under that program is the Pacific Motorway, Logan motorway to Nerang, planning for smart motorways, also still in progress, and that was a $700,000 Australian government commitment and a total project cost of $1.5 million. Since 2019, that’s a total Australian government commitment to projects on the M1 of $2.2 billion.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you very much. Was that available last time? 

Mr Bourne: I think I did offer to go through those with you last time, but you asked us to take that on notice. 

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Restoring Helium to the Critical Minerals List

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The Albanese government removed helium from Australia’s Critical Minerals List in December 2023, allowing the country’s only helium plant in Darwin to close.

Australia now relies entirely on imports from Qatar, the US, Algeria, and Russia —nations tied to current global conflicts.

Helium is irreplaceable and vital for critical domestic sectors, including healthcare (MRI machine cooling), technology (semiconductors, electronics, and quantum computing), data centres, and defence.

This government is mismanaging the economy and harming key industries.

— March | Senate Speech

Transcript

Senator Roberts: I thank Senator Tyrrell for this motion, which One Nation supports. My comments go to the connection between helium and the quality of living in Australia. Helium was included on Australia’s Critical Minerals List until this Labor government removed it in December 2023, the same month the government allowed our only helium plant to close. Not only did the government not do anything to save the Darwin plant; taking helium off the Critical Minerals List cleared the way. Now we import our helium from Qatar, the US, Algeria and Russia, three of whom are caught in the current war. 

Helium is unique, meaning no other gas can replace it. It’s needed in health care. Every MRI machine in Australia requires liquid helium to cool its superconducting magnets. Without it MRIs can’t operate, disrupting diagnostics for cancer, neurological conditions and more. Running out is not an option; Australians will suffer. It is needed in semiconductors, electronics and quantum computing. Helium is essential for cooling, purging and atmosphere control in chip fabrication, which is a rapidly growing Australian industry that generates things this government hates: non-government jobs and financial independence. It is needed in data centres. The government is forcing more people into the digital economy, then it’s taking away the gas that cools the data centres. What could go wrong? Helium is also needed in defence applications, the other thing this government doesn’t want. 

All the Albanese government can offer the Australian people is no petrol, no diesel, no fertiliser, no houses, falling wages, falling per-capita growth, falling wealth, falling productivity and falling prosperity. They have managed to freeze the economy at a complete standstill—no helium is needed now. One Nation will make the Critical Minerals List great again and produce everything on the list here in Australia. We have the minerals. One Nation loves this country, and we want everyone who’s here to have a life of wealth, security and abundance. 

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When the Trucks Stop, Australia Stops

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Government is failing to maintain the internationally mandated 90-day fuel stockpile, currently holding less than 30 days of reserves.

Senator Ayres is misrepresenting statistics, claiming “115% capacity” when it actually means only 26 days of supply. A deliberate deflection of accountability.

Depleted fuel reserves put the nation’s daily transport, defense, mining, and agriculture sectors at severe risk, threatening to grind the country to a halt and fuel inflation.

Australia needs long term fuel security – not short term band-aid fixes.

For decades Senator Hanson has suggested a pipeline to convert domestic natural gas into liquid fuels (diesel and petrol) for major cities.

The United States has dropped net zero and the Paris agreement and is now producing more hydrocarbon fuels. Why? Because they are essential for human life as we know it.

One Nation calls for an immediate parliamentary inquiry to reveal the truth, address price volatility, and secure Australia’s fuel supply chain.

Transcript

Senator Roberts: This matter is urgent for three reasons. Firstly, the truth is not coming out. We want it out. It has to come out immediately before more people die. Secondly, fuel security—the people are getting ripped off at the bowser because of fuel volatility in prices and supply. I want to correct the record here, and I also want to point out, yet again, how urgent this is. 

This is from Senator Hanson, Leader of One Nation, from a Hansard from 2021: 

“I rise to speak on the Fuel Security Bill 2021. When I came into the Senate in 2016 I raised the importance of fuel security for all Australians.“

For a decade, she has been on about it, and I have been hearing her for that full decade and before. She goes on to say: 

“This and previous governments have continually failed to meet the internationally mandated 90 days stockpile of fuel for the people of this nation. That means this government has put at risk—“

that was the Morrison government, but you’re doing the same now— 

“the fuel security of our daily transport needs—” 

daily transport needs of the people watching this at home— 

“our defence, our aviation industry, our mining and our commuter needs. Without this internationally mandated 90-day stockpile of fuel, Australia risks coming to a grinding halt. My concerns were echoed by Senator Jim Molan when he entered the parliament in … 2017.“

Not only has she done that, but she’s advocated for a pipeline across the country to bring some of the world’s largest gas reserves to the east coast cities of Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney and get fuel from gas to liquid fuel, diesel and petrol, conversion. And what have you done? Nothing 

What Senator Ayres did, through you, Chair, on Monday, when I asked this question and started this talk about fuel security—which we must discuss—is try to conflate it by saying he had 115 per cent, 120 per cent, 150 per cent. Forget the arithmetic; he was misleading, because, when we went and did our research, we found out he had 115 per cent of 24 days, which is about 26 days. We realised he was misleading the people of Australia and misleading the representatives in this chamber, because he was saying we had 115 per cent of reserves when we had less than 30 per cent of reserves, according to the International Energy Agency. Then, when he was caught out by my question on Monday, what did he do? He focused entirely on Angus Taylor, who has nothing to do with this at the moment. 

This is what the government try to do. They try to deflect, denigrate and mislead, and they try to hide it. That’s why we need this, if I follow Senator McKenzie’s call—I’ll read clause (b). It calls on the government to take ‘urgent action to avoid a fuel crisis that will add to Australia’s already existing, home-grown inflation pressures’. Fuel stocks are low. We are not arguing they are low under Mr Taylor as the energy minister. That’s for another day. We want to sort the problem out now. We need truth, we need security, and we need absolute facts out in the open. That’s why we need this inquiry. We can’t get the answer by asking the minister, Chris Bowen, or Senator Wong. 

Volatility of fuel prices is cut by having reserves at 90 days. That is a fact. The people of Australia will pay through the neck. The other thing is security. The whole country stops when we run out of diesel—farms, mines, transport. Every single thing in this country relies upon transport indirectly or directly, and, when the trucks stop, Australia stops. You should know that from listening to Glenn Sterle, a truckie himself. This is about security. It’s also about long-term security, getting a pipeline across the country, as Senator Hanson has requested and suggested for decades now, to convert our gas fuels into liquid fuels, diesel and petrol in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. We also note that the United States has dropped net zero and the Paris agreement and is now producing more hydrocarbon fuels. Why? Because they are essential for human life as we know it. 

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Rejecting the UN Scam

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A question I asked Minister Don Farrell back in March.

From the start, One Nation opposed the UN’s net zero policies and will continue to oppose.

Will the Uniparty fully embrace coal, oil, and gas as being essential for modern civilisation and commit to true national self-sufficiency across our entire hydrocarbon supply chain, from drilling to the petrol pump?

I doubt it!

— March | Senate Debate

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, from the start, One Nation has completely opposed the United Nations net zero scam. Only One Nation has said from the start and continues to say, ‘Scrap United Nations’s net zero.’ The Nationals say, ‘Scrap net zero by 2050.’ They support the net zero concept but want to delay implementation. The Liberals say the same. They still support UN’s net zero; they just want to drop net zero by 2050. The Liberals started net zero under Prime Minister Morrison after he’d promised at the election just 18 months earlier not to adopt it. The Nationals went along with it blindly. The Labor Party has adopted One Nation suggestions— 

Senator Canavan: Barnaby did! 

Senator ROBERTS: He now realises he was wrong, and he’s probably said so, to his credit. That shows his integrity and courage. Labor has adopted One Nation’s suggestions. We were the first to raise the looming fuel crisis back on Monday 2 March, three days after the Israelis attacked Iran. We were ridiculed for that—called far-right-wing extremists, I think—by the Labor Party. I can distinctly visualise Senator Tim Ayres over there saying that as he pointed towards me. It doesn’t bother us, because we know that he was desperate. But we thank you for adopting so many of our policies over that last four weeks, and you’re still adopting them. Thank you. Will you adopt our advice to scrap UN net zero? Will you at least acknowledge that the hydrocarbon fuels coal, oil and natural gas are essential for modern civilisation—in particular, oil for transport? Will you acknowledge that we need to be self-sufficient in the entire hydrocarbon supply chain, from drilling rig through to petrol pump?

Senator Farrell: I thank Senator Roberts for his question. I should congratulate you on your result in the South Australian elections, Senator Roberts. I know you came down and campaigned, certainly in the seat of Colton. I saw you down there with your candidate.

I have an apology to make to Senator Canavan. When I was answering one of his questions last week, I referred to the fact that, in his first outing as leader of the National Party, where he was going to take on One Nation, your candidates got 22 per cent of the vote, and I said in the Senate that the Nationals had got one per cent. I have to apologise to Senator Canavan; that was not correct. It was 0.7 of one per cent, not one per cent. So, in his first outing as leader, espousing all of the policy positions he’s just explained to this Senate, that was the result.

We do produce gas in this country, Senator Roberts, and we’ve produced it under this government. I’ve referred, in an earlier answer to Senator Canavan, to some of the places where we’re doing it. We’re doing it in the Barossa. We’re doing it in the Beetaloo. One day we might do it in Narrabri. We’re certainly increasing production in the Cooper Basin in South Australia. But we do have a commitment to net zero. That is, as you say, a commitment that both the Nationals and the coalition, at certain periods of time, have been committed to. Gas, in particular, is a transition fuel, Senator Roberts. It’s the way in which you get to net zero.

But right now we have an emergency. We need to ensure that our stocks of petrol, diesel and airline fuel continue to be available to businesses and consumers in this country. There is an emergency about dealing with this. What happens on the sea is that there are ships containing oil, petrol and airline fuel. They become available for purchase, and sometimes you’re only given 24 or 48 hours to make that purchase. The reason we have decided to use the facility of Export Finance Australia to bid for these products is that they’re a very nimble organisation, they’re very experienced in this space, they are run really well by a fellow called John Hopkins, they regularly report to me, and we see them as the best organisation to ensure that we act quickly on this.

Minister Bowen has ensured that, in combination with me and Minister King, we have taken all of the steps that we need to take to ensure that Australians continue to have access to all of those fuels that I just mentioned. But there is an urgency about this legislation. Despite everything Senator Canavan said, I’m not sure that he appreciates that urgency. We do need to get on with this, and the quicker we pass this legislation, the quicker we can get some certainty to businesses and consumers about the reliable supply of those fuels.

The TEMPORARY CHAIR (Senator Scarr): Senator Roberts, there’s only seventeen seconds left for the debate, but you have the call.

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, will you support One Nation’s initiative in recommending the conversion of gas to liquid fuels? You mentioned gas. 

The TEMPORARY CHAIR (Senator Scarr): I’m sorry, Minister, but, pursuant to the order agreed to yesterday, the time allotted on this bill has expired. 

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Productivity is Prosperity

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… government greed for other people’s money is our biggest threat.

Productivity and prosperity – these are two concepts intimately linked and yet wrongly separated thanks to the over-taxing demands of Treasury.

Productivity is not about taxation.

Taxation is a reward taken by the Treasury from productivity in the private sector.

This has led some ministers to view tax revenue as the chief goal of productivity instead of a reflection of economic success – a catastrophic error that speaks to the financial illiteracy plaguing the Labor government.

The recent Budget saw Labor propose raising taxes on the few remaining productive sectors of the economy. These represent the small corners of investment occupied with people trying to make ends meet in an increasingly unfair system. The result has been … predictable. A flat, weakening investment sector and stagnating housing markets.

Panic has spread. Money has retreated. Productivity has taken a hit it could not afford.

It was only last week that the Treasurer had to be told that his new Capital Gains Taxes threatened future productivity within the business sector and the investment market.

Think about it. When doubling taxes on risky investment returns, the government misses out on the taxes it could have collected when investors transition into home ownership. Which is what most young people say they intend to do with their capital gains… Because of these new taxes, young people will purchase fewer homes. It is just one example of stifling economic growth in favour of short-term tax grabs. And this is without mentioning the reduced productivity of renters already facing price hikes as a result.

Government greed for other people’s money is the biggest threat to productivity.

This government has strongly disincentivised productive risk-takers.

Business owners are punished and over-taxed workers are conditioned to blame their employers for economic hardship. This creates unproductive economic tension.

Instead, the true culprit is the acute failure of government to contain inflation and tighten its own belt. Labor has acquired substantial debts through mismanagement, hubris, panic, and delusion. What did we see in this budget? The Treasurer is still spending money he doesn’t have on things this country doesn’t need.

Meanwhile, businesses are collapsing are record rates. The public sector is growing. Wealth generation is shrinking. This is not productive.

Australia is becoming an incoherent economic mess that rewards a culture of hand-outs – be they corporate or private – instead of offering a hand-up to those who want to succeed.

Here is the truth. We are almost at a trillion dollars in debt, chasing our tail to keep up with interest repayments worth $28 billion per annum. Dead money. The Treasury is in desperate need of productivity while having no idea – whatsoever – about how to nurture productivity in a complex Western democracy full of free people making independent choices about their economic future.

The economy requires incentive, not the punishment.

What is ‘productivity’?

Productivity is cheap, reliable, Australian-sourced energy. It is good roads connecting regional areas with city centres. High speed rail lines and Australian-controlled ports. Refineries guaranteeing fuel supply when the world is in crisis. A competitive construction industry. It is the cutting of petty and unnecessary red tape. It is cutting UN and foreign agency imposed green and blue tape. It is high-speed, reliable internet – everywhere – including along highways and in regional areas. It is the freedom to take risks and earn a reward. It is a reliable nation of stable economic rules to encourage investment.

Productivity means placing trust and respect in businesses – freeing them of unnecessary cost burdens so they can hire staff, reward the hardest workers, and voluntarily pay above minimum wage.

Labor is spending all of its time focused on the minimum wage, because the economy is dying. Low wages are becoming the standard, rather than the baseline, because businesses are giving too much of their capital to the Treasury.

A Treasury that has run out of money and wants to dip into the pockets of Australians who did nothing wrong.

Productivity is not about working harder – it is about working smarter.

The Woke-Left have taken over the economy and built an economic prison rather than a promise.

One Nation wants to free the Australian people so they can be productive – on their own terms – to build a future they want for their children and their children’s children. Also, a nation worth living in for the people alive now, who deserve to enjoy the sacrifices of their ancestors.

To the Prime Minister, I say this, you don’t make the next generation of Australians productive through saddling them with an education debt larger than a housing deposit, selling their jobs to an imported workforce, and then tempting them into home deposit schemes they can never hope to pay off while depreciating the value of their asset. These Australians will never have the financial security to invest their money or take the risk of starting a business that creates productivity. What they are doing is surviving. Not thriving.

One Nation have been presenting policies for productivity for years. Since rising in the polls, these policies have gained traction. The response? Our political opponents are seeking to tear them down. They complain that any drop in revenue is an affront to the status quo of Treasury.

When we offered income splitting to give families a fairer tax policy and the flexibility to raise their own children, we were told this would ‘hurt income tax returns’ and ‘cause women to leave the workforce’. I’m sorry? What about the savings to childcare, which are currently costing the Budget a fortune? What about the humanity of allowing one parent to stay home, if that is what they wish? What about the benefits to the child? The community benefits? The education benefits? One Nation offers economic freedom – and the economists whinge.

When One Nation offered to end bracket creep – Labor, the Coalition, and Greens united to stop us. Then the government tossed a measly $250 at working Australians in compensation. It is … disgusting. It is … dishonest.

When One Nation offered greater freedom to businesses so they can grow and hire more staff, we are told that we are denting corporate tax. One Nation does not want minimum wage to be the anchor dragging down prosperity – we want the private sector to reward merit, pay better wages, and give proper benefits to the hardest workers and brightest staff because the most skilled should rise to the top. Productive societies are merit-driven. Always.

Merit makes money. Hard work makes money. Businesses make money. Government spends money other people have made.

And it should spend that money in a way that encourages productivity – not fantasy obsessions, like a non-existent climate crisis. The green apocalypse made a lot of corporations very rich at the expense of taxpayers. You think we didn’t notice – we did.

Of course, One Nation will retain the minimum award system and seeks to elevate wages above the minimum level through productivity increases.

One Nation understands that productivity has nothing to do with forcing people to work harder. They already work hard. Instead, Australia requires bold changes in regulation to unchain the economy and release its potential.

A smaller government.

This is our message to the Treasurer. If you have to sit around mulling over productivity at a roundtable it means you don’t understand productivity. You have no clue what to do.

Just as you cannot subsidise your way to becoming an energy super-power, you cannot tax your way to productivity.

A One Nation leadership will force – force – the government to tighten its belt, stop wasting money, and cut off parasitic departments and bureaucracies. We will shrink the government to fit the constitution, saving $90 billion a year of waste and duplication, so that we can offer the Australian people lower taxes, less red tape, and more personal flexibility. One Nation wants tax money put to use to build transit lines and infrastructure required to increase productivity – not into wasteful projects that tick a Net Zero box at the UN.

We cannot keep sending billions ($31 billion a year) of dollars offshore and billions more into the hands of domestic fraudsters and criminals.

Cheap, reliable energy. Proper infrastructure. Real wealth. Lower taxes. Less bureaucracy.

That is the formula for productivity.

I will finish with this. And this will hurt. If the Treasury wants productivity, it will have to take a leaf out of the private sector. It will have to take a risk. Take a hit to its balance sheet. Make an investment. It will have to lower taxes and allow the private sector to keep more of it what it earns so that the men and women of Australia can choose what sections of the economy to grow – to pick the best parts to invest in – to cultivate what actually works, not what the government wants to work.

The Australian people have always been financially responsible and economically intelligent. They will dig the government out of this financial hole – only if the government lets them.

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Where is Our Dam?

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The people of Central Queensland deserve clear answers, not continuous delays, when it comes to the Paradise Dam new wall project. The last public update on foundation geological mapping was in late 2024 and it’s time to find out what actual progress has been made.

Mr Darrough from the National Water Gridadmitted that the detailed business case was finalised in July 2025 and evaluated by Infrastructure Australia in September 2025. And here we are in 2026 and still a formal proposal for the revised dam wall hasn’t been submitted.

The estimated cost has skyrocketed to a staggering $4.4 billion because they realised the old wall couldn’t be reinstated, and they would have to build a new one downstream.

The federal government has committed $600 million (with $50 million already spent on early works), and the rest is just sitting in the budget.

The federal department is just sitting on its hands waiting on the Queensland state government to get its act together and put forward a formal funding proposal.

Meanwhile, Queenslanders wait for water security.

— Senate Estimates | February 2026

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you all for appearing again today. I have some brief questions about water infrastructure. I’m told this needs to be asked here. Is anyone familiar with Paradise Dam?

Senator Watt: Oh yes!

Senator ROBERTS: It’s about the new dam wall for Paradise Dam. The last update we can find on this project is the conduct of foundation geological mapping conducted by Sunwater in November 2024. Has anything progressed beyond that and, if so, what?

Senator Watt: While the officials are getting ready, I’ll say that this is a Queensland government project. There will be a limit to the role that this department has in that project, but obviously the officials can share whatever they have.

Mr Darrough: The detailed business case was finalised in July 2025 and is being considered by the Queensland government. The Queensland government hasn’t submitted a proposal for the new project with the revised dam wall arrangements. Infrastructure Australia published its evaluation of the detailed business case in September 2025.

Senator ROBERTS: Who’s funding the new dam wall and in what proportions?

Mr Darrough: The Australian government made a commitment of $600 million; $50 million of that is contracted with Queensland to deliver early enabling works and the detailed business case, and the balance of the funding remains available in the budget.

Senator ROBERTS: What do you expect the total cost to be? How much will the Queensland government pay?

Mr Darrough: I think it’s on the record that it’s an estimated $4.4 billion.

Senator ROBERTS: So the vast majority will come from the Queensland government?

Mr Darrough: The Queensland government hasn’t put forward a proposal to the Australian government for funding.

Senator Watt: In case you’re unaware, Senator, the commitment that our government made of $600 million was 50 per cent of the funding for—was it going to be a new dam originally?

Mr Darrough: It was originally to reinstate the old dam wall, but, when the early work was done on that, Sunwater realised that it couldn’t be restored and that they needed to do a new dam wall downstream, so the price has been revisited. That’s also some time ago, so the estimates have gone up through escalation factors in any case.

Senator ROBERTS: So you’re waiting on the Queensland government to get the total cost?

Mr Darrough: Yes.

Senator ROBERTS: Is there any formula for funding of that from federal compared to state?

Mr Darrough: No. The National Water Grid Infrastructure Investment Framework puts in place arrangements whereby states and territories can ask for up to 50 per cent of funding for capital and construction projects, but there is no formulaic base. The level of contribution that the Australian government would make is a matter that’s decided by the government, and it’s informed by the business case evaluation from Infrastructure Australia, the proposal from Queensland and advice from the department.

Senator ROBERTS: So, in summary, you’re waiting on the Queensland government.

Mr Darrough: Yes.

Senator ROBERTS: Let’s move on to Urannah Dam. It was cancelled by the Albanese Labor government in 2022, I understand. We have the preliminary business case, which was released. I don’t have the final business case and environmental impact study, which I’m assuming showed why the project was not feasible. Were these completed?

Mr Darrough: On Urannah Dam, the then Australian government committed $22.65 million to support the business case, environmental approvals and geotech. On 16 December 2022, the delivery agent, Bowen River Utilities, announced it had withdrawn the scheme from environmental assessment processes in Queensland.

Senator ROBERTS: Was any reason given?

Mr Darrough: I’d need to take that on notice. The funding that was actually in the budget for construction of Urannah Dam was within the infrastructure portfolio, not the water elements that transferred to DCCEEW.

Senator ROBERTS: In whose hands is the final business case?

Mr Darrough: I’ll need to take that on notice.

Senator ROBERTS: And also the environmental impact study?

Mr Darrough: Again, I’ll take that on notice. We encourage jurisdictions to publish business cases that the Australian government contributes to, but, ultimately, the Commonwealth-state relations and the funding arrangement that we have puts ownership of those documents in the hands of the jurisdiction. It’s ultimately a matter for them to decide whether or not they publish.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s the state?

Mr Darrough: Yes, but we encourage in all cases that it be published.

Senator ROBERTS: If you have access to it, may we have a copy, please?

Mr Darrough: I’ll need to take it on notice.

Senator ROBERTS: Yes, that’s fine. If the business case says there’s not enough use for the water, then are you aware that there’s a Project Iron Boomerang or, actually, Capricorn Steel, which is a large project—I won’t go into the details—that would involve putting a steel mill at Collinsville?

Mr Darrough: I can talk more broadly about the Burdekin Basin, of which the Urannah area is part. The Commonwealth is partnering with Queensland on the Burdekin Regional Water Assessment, and that process is under way, looking at a basin-wide assessment of demand and supply for water in the catchment.

Senator ROBERTS: I don’t expect you to know this, but I’ll ask it anyway. Are you aware of the potential for a steel mill at Collinsville and other steel mills in Central Queensland? Mr Darrough: Only from newspapers.

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Why QLD Projects Are Going Nowhere

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I wanted a clear update on major projects vital to Queenslanders. As usual, we are seeing a lot of bureaucratic foot-dragging.

First up, I called out the very slow pace on the M1. The Infrastructure Priority List shows we are still stuck at Stage 2 and 3 of the framework, waiting on the Queensland State Government to get its act together on a business case. While a tiny 10-kilometre section was upgraded, the M1 is 80 kilometres long. When I pushed for a timeline on the rest of the highway, the department couldn’t give me a straight answer on the spot and took it on notice.

It was a similar story with the Centenary Highway. Whilst the new bridge in western Brisbane is welcome, the highway is 42 kilometres long. I asked the exact same question: when will the rest of the widening actually happen? The department’s answer? We’re still in the “business case stage.”

We then discussed the Paradise Dam. We support rebuilding the dam wall, however the numbers must make sense. When I asked about the timeline and cooperation from the Crisafulli Government, the department shirked responsibility and passed the buck, claiming it falls under the Department of Climate Change (DCCEEW), not land transport.

The Queensland Inland Freight Route (Mungindi to Charters Towers) is a brilliant project that One Nation has been pushing for a long time. It links vital regional networks from Roma to Longreach and up to Townsville. I wanted to know why it has stalled and when the Minister will use some real leadership to get it moving. The department clarified it’s a road upgrade, not rail, and provided an update on early works, including pavement widening and bridge upgrades on the Carnarvon Highway and Gregory Developmental Road. It’s a massive multi-year project, and it needs to be finished.

Lastly, I wanted to know why the Port of Gladstone land and sea access upgrade has been stuck as an “identified problem” since 2015 with zero progress. I asked if they were considering the major I-PG Global container facility proposal, however the officials could not answer, instead directing me to Infrastructure Australia who handles those assessments.

— February | Senate Estimates

Transcript

CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Canavan. Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: I’d like an update on the infrastructure plan for the country. My first question is this. Referencing the infrastructure priority list dated 6 February 2026 on the Brisbane to Gold Coast highway it says the next step is: Proponent to develop potential investment options (Stage 2 of Infrastructure Australia’s Assessment Framework), and complete business case development (Stage 3 of the Framework). The proponent is the Queensland state government; is that correct?

Mr Bourne: Yes.

Ms Hall: If that’s what’s on the infrastructure priority list, yes, that would be correct.

Senator ROBERTS: I note that a 10-kilometre section of the highway was upgraded, yet the M1 is 80 kilometres long. When will we see progress on upgrading the rest of the M1?

Ms Hall: We can take you through what programs we have on the M1 currently, but any additional requests for funding would have to come from the Queensland government.

Mr Bourne: Would you like us to go through our projects along the M1?

Senator ROBERTS: Yes, please. Or could you put it on notice, maybe? I’ve got a few other questions. Are they all short answers?

Mr Bourne: There’s quite a bit to them. We can take that on notice if that’s how you’d prefer to do it.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. The centenary highway is the next project. The new bridge is welcome, so thank you for that. People in western Brisbane appreciate it. However, the centenary highway is 42 kilometres long, and, on the plans to widen the motorway, let’s talk about what to do next. It’s the same question. When will we see the rest of the widening occur on the centenary highway?

Mr Bourne: Currently, we have a project called the Centenary Motorway upgrade, and that is a business case that is currently underway. That will be subject to the outcomes of that business case.

Senator ROBERTS: So we’re at the business case stage?

Mr Bourne: Yes, if we’re referring to the Centenary Motorway upgrade.

Senator ROBERTS: The next one is Paradise Dam. We don’t disagree with the decision taken to rebuild the wall—let me make that clear. My question, though, is straightforward. Construction on the replacement dam wall was listed at a cost of $4.1 billion. However, the project is still awaiting a business case. What stage is this project at? When is construction likely to start? And what is the level of cooperation from the Crisafulli government to start the rebuild?

Mr Betts: That would be a matter for the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water.

Senator ROBERTS: The department of climate change?

Mr Betts: Yes, DCCEEW.

Senator ROBERTS: So it’s under their purview, not yours?

Mr Betts: Correct. We are responsible for land transport infrastructure.

Senator ROBERTS: We’re excited about this next one. The Queensland inland freight route capacity and safety proposal is to bring Inland Rail over the border at Mungindi and then take it due north to Charters Towers. This would link in with the Brisbane line and the Toowoomba airport from Roma, the existing line to Longreach, the Port of Gladstone with a small missing link across to the Gladstone heavy rail network and to Mount Isa and Townsville along the existing MITEZ route. This is the right alignment for Inland Rail. At last, we’re seeing progress. This proposal appears to have stalled, though, waiting on the Crisafulli government to do something. At what point, Minister, do you use your power to just get these brilliant infrastructure projects moving? We’re delighted to hear of these projects.

Senator Chisholm: Can the department provide any update on where that is at?

Mr Bourne: Senator, if you’re referring to the inland freight route upgrade—because I think you also mentioned the Inland Rail as well—

Senator ROBERTS: The inland freight route capacity and safety—going from Mungindi to Charters Towers.

Mr Bourne: Yes.

Senator ROBERTS: We love the idea! It’s something we’ve been pushing for a while.

Ms Hall: That’s a road upgrade, not a rail upgrade. We can take you through the inland freight route upgrade.

Senator ROBERTS: Yes, if you could, please.

Mr Brummitt: There’s an early works package that’s continuing at the Carnarvon Highway between Injune and Rolleston, the Dawson River Bridge and Gregory Developmental Road, and pavement strengthening and widening of various sections as well. Then, also on the Carnarvon Highway, the Baffle Creek bridge upgrade is proceeding, and the Gregory Developmental Road pavement strengthening and widening in a number of sections there is under construction, as well as a number of major culvert upgrades. The inland freight route is obviously a very large multi-year project.

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The Broken Promise of Inland Rail

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In this session with the Australian Rail Track Corporation (ARTC), I asked questions on the Border-to-Gowrie section of the Inland Rail, a project that continues to look like a horrendous waste of taxpayers’ money.

I asked how much hard-earned taxpayer money has been spent on this 217-kilometre stretch to date and what it will cost before construction even starts. This question was taken on notice. Estimates have been submitted to the federal government, yet the actual cost of building 37 bridges and 3,000 culverts remains up in the air.

We were originally promised a “port-to-port” network from Melbourne to Brisbane. Now, the ARTC admits the actual scope only goes from Beveridge to Kagaru. They’re admitting they cannot get double-stacked, 1.8-kilometre trains into the Brisbane port — and never will. Moving the intermodal terminal to Ebenezer is a flat-out confession of that failure.

They’re stubbornly sticking to a route that goes over a mountain and straight across the Condamine flood plain, which is an engineering nightmare that we’ve warned them about for years. They’re even talking about a “vast new rail tunnel” down the range before they’ve even sorted the basic costs or engineering reality.

I put it to them directly: every single cent being spent on this Queensland route is completely wasted. If you can’t get double-stacked freight to the port, the entire business case goes completely out the window.

While I know the ARTC is just “following orders,” I urge the government to stop throwing good money after bad.

Although they need to finish costing that range tunnel, they must immediately halt the rest and look at alternative routes, such as taking the alignment to the Port of Gladstone, which would actually deliver real logistical and economic benefits for the entire nation.

Once again – this was taken “on notice.”

— February | Senate Estimates

Transcript

CHAIR: Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing tonight, and have a good evening. My questions are on Inland Rail from the Queensland border to Gowrie specifically. This stage is at phase 4 approval. For 2026, ARTC anticipates increased activity, with teams conducting more site investigations, surveys and updates as they work towards securing final environmental approvals. How much money has been spent on the border-to-Gowrie section to date, and how much is expected to be spent before the first construction begins?

Mr Zambelli: I’d have to take that historical data on notice. At the moment we do have a design team engaged—that’s working on that border-to-Gowrie section to get the next refinement of the design—and we’re out there doing site investigations. I’d have to take on notice the total amount that we’ve spent over many years.

Senator ROBERTS: I can understand that—and also the cost of the design.

Mr Zambelli: Yes.

Senator ROBERTS: It appears you’re persevering with a route over a mountain and across the Condamine flood plain, which we’ve talked about many times, to get down to the Brisbane rail network, which will never be able to handle 1.8-kilometre trains or double-stacked trains—never. Why are you persevering with a route that will never get you to port, instead of taking the Inland Rail alignment to the port of Gladstone? There are many logistical benefits for the whole nation.

Mr Zambelli: The scope of Inland Rail is to go to Kagaru, not to Brisbane port, with double-stacked trains to Ebenezer and single-stacked trains to Kagaru. That is the scope. Inland Rail does not go to Brisbane port.

Senator ROBERTS: No, I understand that, but we were originally told it was port to port—Melbourne to Brisbane. That’s what we were originally told was the vision for Inland Rail. It’s not going to do it. It can go to the port of Gladstone.

Mr Zambelli: I’m just telling you the scope, Senator. Inland Rail is Beveridge to Kagaru.

Senator ROBERTS: Yes. You’ve got to follow orders. The border-to-Gowrie section is 217 kilometres of mostly new track, 37 bridges and 3,000 culverts. How much will this cost?

Mr Zambelli: The cost of that section is still being determined. We’ve provided some scope and design, schedule and cost estimates to the federal government, and that’s a matter for the federal government and their assurance verification specialist that’s working with them.

Senator ROBERTS: It’s horrendous. There’s Gowrie to Helidon, including a ‘vast new rail tunnel’—they’re Inland Rail’s words. Surely, taking Inland Rail to Toowoomba shouldn’t be considered until you sort the cost and engineering for taking it down the range. I put it to you that every cent you’re spending on the Queensland route is completely wasted. If you can’t get double-stacked freight to Brisbane, the whole business case is out the window, and your recent update about moving the intermodal from Kagaru to Ebenezer acknowledges you can’t get double-stacked trains to Brisbane itself, which you’ve admitted. Would you please continue work on costing the tunnel down the range but otherwise spend your time, Minister, revisiting alternative routes for Inland Rail? There are so many other fine options that will benefit the country.

Senator McCarthy: I’ll take your question on notice, Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: Thanks, Minister.

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One Nation’s Gas Policy: Securing the Wealth of the Nation

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One Nation aims to increase domestic oil and gas exploration and production by partnering with the industry rather than restricting it. Our goal is to secure greater financial returns for Australians, lower energy prices, and reduce government debt through direct state investment rather than new taxes or forced reservations.

By financially backing exploration and taking an equity share, our aim is to boost fuel security and give Australians “real ownership” of their natural resources.

Transcript

Well, it’s a real honour to be with you today and especially to introduce my gas policy to you. I think it’s very important. I hope that you see in my policy, I have a vision for this country and I think it reflects in my gas policy, so let me share it with you.

Thank you to the Australian energy producers for having me at your 2026 conference. Today I will be announcing One Nation’s new oil and gas policy. This is a bold long-term vision that will give the Australian people vastly greater returns from their resources and align government objectives with our world-class gas industry.

Australia’s gas reserves are nothing short of a miracle. For a country with only 0.3% of the world’s population, we supply nearly 10% of the world’s exported gas. One Nation has always fought for a fair return for the Australian people on our country’s natural resources.

Australians are rightly unhappy. Despite our enormous resource wealth, ordinary families are not seeing the benefits in affordable energy, reduced debt or improved services. Public unrest is building because successive governments have failed to secure a fair share while pursuing policies that risk killing the industry that generates that wealth.

One Nation understands that gas doesn’t magically extract itself. Gas production is only possible with the expertise of the private industry. One Nation will work with industry as a partner, leveraging this expertise to get the most out of our incredible resources.

We want more gas, more oil and more energy to drive our economy forward, pay down our debts and secure our energy future. Before I go on to our policy, I would like to take a moment to address the other policies that have been put forward. Senator David Percock and the Greens Party, along with lobby groups like the Australian Institute, continue to call for an industry-destroying 25% tax on gas exports.

The tax would apply to the total value of all gas exports and destroy the economics of the entire industry. That is their goal. They have drawn false equivalency with countries like Norway, who share the full risks and rewards with their industry.

A model that has succeeded because government and industry partner together, supported by generous tax incentives. These activists simply want to destroy our gas industry and push their Green Agenda scam. It’s nothing more than economic vandalism.

They don’t live in reality. They live in a ridiculous net-zero fantasy world, where fertilisers, plastics, medicines and rubber can be made with the intermittent power from solar panels. Where the 1,500 degree furnaces for smelting can be run on wind turbines.

They want gas stopped. One Nation wants more gas extracted, bigger returns and real energy security. One Nation has previously considered an East Coast gas reservation policy.

However, through consultation with industry and stakeholders, it became clear that it fell short of our policy objectives. The government’s 20 per cent reservation policy will damage onshore development of oil and gas projects. Many of these projects are Australian producers currently supplying the domestic market.

It forces inefficient use of our precious resources under the oversupply model. We will not destroy the industry with forced oversupply. Our policy will instead be flexible to export surplus gas when domestic demand is satisfied, building sovereign wealth rather than undermining domestic supply projects.

Typical of this government, they have thrust these changes onto existing projects with little to no consultation, damaging their ongoing feasibility. This policy is a blunt tool that will result in less competition and less efficient industry. One Nation’s policy will drive more exploration, more development and more production, without pushing out smaller Australian producers.

One Nation is proposing a genuine partnership with the gas industry from exploration through to production and decommissioning. We will provide a 30 per cent rebate on genuine oil and gas exploration in Commonwealth waters. In exchange, the Commonwealth may take up to 30 per cent equity in issued production licences.

The Commonwealth would be responsible for its costs as an equity owner and in turn be entitled to a proportionate share of the production. These costs will include participation in decommissioning, ensuring responsible end of life management is planned from the outset to protect the environment and taxpayers. These ownership rights would be 100 per cent owned by a new Commonwealth special investment vehicle, the Australian National Wealth Investment Corporation or called ANWIC.

ANWIC will direct its share of oil and gas to Australia’s greatest benefit, selling to critical domestic industries like fertiliser production, energy and fuel refining or exporting when the domestic market is well supplied to pay down debt and build sovereign wealth. This flexibility will maximise value for Australians while encouraging industry participation. One Nation would ensure the ANWIC board consists of only industry experts who have had success in the oil and gas industry, not government appointed bureaucrats.

Any profits made on Australia’s equity ownership will be put into a sovereign wealth fund to reinvest and grow, not to be rorted by future governments. Importantly, ANWIC would only act as a non-operating equity partner. We recognise that the expertise rests in our world-class industry and we are there to benefit from their knowledge.

ANWIC would also be empowered to invest in current producing projects. And before the Greens get excited, this won’t be some socialist takeover. It must pay its way into any existing project under commercial arms length terms, not under compulsion or coercion.

This will be a direct financial investment, not a takeover. The equity model gives flexibility to support domestic manufacturing or capture high export prices. It also provides the predictability foreign investors need.

Japan and South Korea are looking elsewhere because of policy instability in Australia. We must look after our trading partners. South Korea takes our LNG and supplies us with essential liquid petroleum products.

Stable partnership policy will keep these vital relationships strong instead of driving capital away. Under One Nation’s policy, the government will have skin in the game as a true partner to industry, maximising returns to the Australian people. This bold new strategy will be supported by One Nation’s long-standing policies of cutting red, green, black and blue tape and dumping net zero targets.

When I consulted gas producers on this policy, they were shocked to be asked their views. One Nation has done more consultation with industry than this government has ever done. The gas industry has been fighting an uphill battle against net zero-obsessed governments.

To all the representatives here, you will not be spared by trying to satisfy the net zero zealots. If you accept any form of net zero or emissions reduction policy, you are signing your industry’s death warrant. They will not stop until oil and gas in Australia is gone.

One Nation will dump all net zero policies. We will abolish the safeguard mechanism that fines gas companies for doing their job. It is actively destroying investment.

It sets rigid emission baselines and imposes heavy penalties, often millions per facility for breaches, even if our gas supports energy, security or vital industry. Companies divert enormous sums to compliance and offsets instead of production and jobs. Constant rule changes create uncertainty, leading to project delays and cancellations and telling investors Australia is not open for business.

At the same time, insane environmental approval processes driven by activist litigation and aligned with UN net zero ideology are compounding the damage. Capital is fleeing to the places that are rolling out of the red carpet, taking jobs and money away from Australians. Red, green, black and blue tape must be cut.

Approvals will be decided within six months with certainty. Fixatious legal claims will not stop vital projects. One Nation is taking the industry in a fundamentally different direction, clearing the way for Australian industry and thinking in generations, not election cycles.

We want more gas unlocked and government as a genuine partner, not an adversary to the industry. Lastly, the petroleum resource rent tax has been a failure in the gas industry. PWRT for offshore gas is not consistent or fit for purpose.

It was designed for oil projects and its structure does not suit gas economics. This has led to unstable tax revenues and eroded community trust. One Nation would replace the PWRT with a simple Commonwealth royalty on wellhead value.

This will give the Australian people a consistent tax take, help preserve the industry’s social licence and provide industry with predictable costs based on production. This change will only apply to prospective projects, grandfathering current PWRT arrangements under which billions were invested. Our policy aims for returns through participation, not ever increasing taxation.

This policy is a massive shift in how Australia gets returns from its resources. Australians will have real ownership of their resource assets for the first time and they will get first use. One Nation will be a partner of industry on behalf of the people of Australia to ensure we have fuel security, cheaper power and pay down our debts while providing the predictability our trading partners need to continue their mutual beneficial relationship with Australia.

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A Masterclass in Buck-Passing

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This is my Senate Estimate session in December with the CEO of Snowy 2.0 and Minister Watt, where we witnessed a masterclass in buck-passing and dodging, when asked about the future of the Tomago aluminium smelter.

Tomago employs thousands of people both directly and indirectly. It relies on cheap coal power from the Eraring Power Station to reduce its production costs to compete with cheap Chinese aluminium.

With Eraring scheduled to close in 2028, Tomago has advised that the renewable power currently available for order is substantially more expensive, making the plant not economically viable.

The Albanese Government has held several press conferences in the Hunter region in the last few months, assuring locals that the government “has their backs” and that the power will come from firmed renewables from Snowy Hydro. Specifically, this extra power is intended to come from Snowy 2.0 upon its completion and from the new gas plant in Kurri Kurri. However, this solution will not work.

Tomago uses 8,400 GWh of power annually. Snowy Hydro will contribute 375 GWh, and the new Kurri Kurri gas plant 2,500 GWh, bringing Snowy Hydro’s total generation to 5,800 GWh. Even if all existing customers sourced their power elsewhere and Snowy sold Tomago every watt of power they had, it would still fall short of the required amount needed. Given that Eraring generates 14,000 GWh, the solution is obvious: Eraring must remain open.

When questioned on this, Snowy Hydro CEO Mr. Barnes did his best not to upset Minister Watt by deferring to the Department. The Department advised that these discussions “sensitive” and declined to provide further information.

Most alarming was the admission that Snowy 2.0 isn’t an energy provider, it’s more of an “insurance company,” designed to run only 10% of the time, with their power being used to backup the grid in case of an emergency.

If Snowy Hydro sold its entire power to keep Tomago operational, the grid will not have that emergency source of power, inevitably resulting in blackouts. This highlights the lie that Snowy Hydro can “save” Tomago.

The government claims to care about jobs in the Hunter Valley, yet when asked what the plan was to replace the baseload power being lost, they had nothing to say other than they were at the “sensitive stage of discussions.”

The net-zero transition is a disaster that is wrecking breadwinner jobs. One Nation will extend the life of Eraring until new baseload coal power can be built at Bayswater, followed by a refit of Eraring to ensure further operation.

— Senate Estimates | December 2025

Transcript

CHAIR: Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing again. I’ve got simple questions about Snowy. First, with reference to media reports on 24 November this year regarding a role for Snowy Hydro in saving the Tomago
aluminium smelter, the report states that Snowy Hydro will provide Tomago with electricity subsidised by the taxpayer from 2028. Are those plans advancing? How much power will be supplied, and how much will the subsidy cost taxpayers?

Mr Barnes: It’s always flattering to have the role of Snowy recognised, but that’s a question for the department. We’re not acting on that right now.

Senator ROBERTS: You can’t tell me about Tomago’s advancing?

Mr Barnes: No.

Senator ROBERTS: What about your role in that?

Mr Barnes: We’ve provided some limited advice to the department.

Mr Duggan: I answered this question earlier. The stage of discussions at the moment is sensitive from the point of view of commercial negotiations, so, in the interests of that, we’re not providing any more information at this stage around the process.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. The next question is about reviewing Snowy Hydro’s generation capacity. I would have thought you were selling all the power you generate. How much spare capacity does Snowy Hydro have currently?

Mr Barnes: We currently have 5,500 megawatts of generation capacity.

Senator ROBERTS: That is 5.5 gigawatts.

Mr Barnes: Yes. We’re obviously building 2.86 gigawatts with Kurri Kurri and Snowy 2.0. We sell to multiple channels, whether it’s residential customers from our retail brands, large industrial customers or the
wholesale market more generally—our competitors and anyone who participates in that market. The contract duration varies, so we don’t necessarily have a 10-year home for all of our capacity, so our spare capacity does vary, but we are, of course, currently in the process of building 2.86 gigawatts, which we haven’t sold.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. In fiscal year 2024, Snowy Hydro generated 3,937 gigawatt-hours in total. Even if your gas plant, the Hunter power project, is fully online by 2028, that’s only another 2,900 gigawatt-hours. Snowy Hydro 2.0 is only another 375 gigawatt hours. They won’t be available in 2028; you just said that’s going to be finished at the end of 2028. Can you give me an honest assessment of how much power you will have available for Tomago in 2028?

Mr Barnes: I won’t reference it to Tomago, but—

Senator ROBERTS: How much is available?

Mr Barnes: To describe how Snowy Hydro works: we’re a provider of what you might call last-resort capacity. Our average capacity factor, or the amount of time our plant runs relative to its capacity, is only 10 per
cent of the time. We expect, for example, Kurri Kurri to run for less than 10 per cent of the time. So we’re not really an energy provider; the energy provision is from the solar and wind that we enable. We have now contracted more solar and wind than we will produce from the Snowy 1 hydro scheme.

Senator ROBERTS: You mean receive it?

Mr Barnes: That is to receive it and be able to sell to customers packaged as a firm supply. We’re not really an energy provider; we are the provider who’s there when, currently, a coal plant fails, the wind is not blowing or the sun’s not shining. Energy provision isn’t really our game. Being there when another plant isn’t available is really our game. We enable energy to come to market.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for being honest with me. Very few people will actually admit would you just admitted—that Snowy 2.0 is not an energy provider.

Mr Barnes: No, we act more like an insurance company.

Senator ROBERTS: Or a battery.

Mr Barnes: We back that insurance with physical assets.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. You have the generation capacity in the Snowy scheme, but you’re limited by water, and of course we need to balance water with real environmentalism—environmental needs for water as well. Minister, as coal comes out of the grid, will the government be forced to change the rules to allow more water for hydro and less for the environment?

Senator Watt: I don’t really think that’s a question in this outcome. I’ve only just arrived here, but I presume all those sorts of issues were canvassed with the department earlier in the day. If you’ve got questions for Snowy Hydro, now is probably the time to ask those, but those are much broader policy issues that the relevant officials aren’t here for.

Senator ROBERTS: Mr Barnes, your water need is one of the vulnerabilities of Snowy 2.0. The catchment area for the upper reservoir is very small. I know you’re going to recycle water, but nonetheless that surely must be a concern. I think someone identified it in the past as a concern that you will need to take water from other places, which means either farming or the environment.

Mr Barnes: Snowy Hydro is obviously subject to water regulation. We don’t make those rules, so we comply with those rules. The purpose of the Snowy scheme is to capture, store and release water to provide reliable
irrigation flows and support the electricity market. As you know, Snowy 2.0 is a recycling plan, so it doesn’t actually rely on those inflows. As I say, there are a couple of current reviews underway on the balance of environmental flows versus flows for irrigation and the electricity market, but we don’t make those. We are subject to water license compliance, which is the instrument that governs us 100 per cent each year.

Senator ROBERTS: I accept that you don’t govern the water requirements and that you’re governed by regulation, but you foresee any need for increases?

Mr Barnes: Again, it is not really a question for Snowy Hydro. We will be subject to whatever regulation is put in place.

Senator ROBERTS: That would tend to indicate that maybe Snowy 2.0 is not terribly secure.

Mr Barnes: Like I say, Snowy 2.0 is a recycling plant, so it doesn’t really rely on any changes to inflows or outflows from the scheme.

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, is the proposal to use Snowy Hydro to keep Tomago open complete nonsense?

Senator Watt: As you may be aware, I’ve been a little bit focused on some other matters over the last few days, involving EPBC reforms!

Senator DEAN SMITH: I thought that was last week!

Senator Watt: It was. I was on the job again on that today in Tasmania, as you may have seen. So I will ask Mr Barnes to say what he can about that matter. You might get better information out of him than you might out of me, but I’m not sure what he’s at liberty to discuss.

Mr Barnes: What is the question?

Senator ROBERTS: Is the proposal to use Snowy Hydro to keep Tomago open complete nonsense?

Mr Barnes: Again, it is not one for me to comment on. I think it’s a process for the department and the
government.

Senator ROBERTS: So Snowy Hydro can’t comment and the minister can’t comment?

Mr Duggan: I will repeat what I said earlier, which is that in earlier evidence we indicated that discussions with Tomago are ongoing. They’re through the industry department, not through this portfolio. We’re supporting them, but they are at a sensitive stage of discussions and therefore I wouldn’t feel at liberty to provide further information on the process, as that may upset those commercial discussions.

Senator ROBERTS: I will reiterate that Snowy Hydro 2.0 is only 375 gigawatt-hours and Snowy Hydro’s gas is almost half of Snowy Hydro’s generated power, so there seems to be not much room for error there.

Mr Duggan: This is, again, probably a question more for the industry department about those discussions with Tomago.

Senator Watt: We would love to have a chat with you about that later in the week.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. The Eraring Power Station produced 14,000 gigawatt-hours in fiscal year 2023. Minister, will you take over Eraring, extend the life of Eraring and keep Tomago smelter open to save the thousands of jobs it supports at the smelter and in the Hunter?

Senator Watt: I’m not aware of any of those discussions, but, again, we’re here to answer questions about Snowy Hydro in this part of the program. I’m sure Minister Bowen will have more to say about that in coming—

Senator ROBERTS: I’m very concerned about the jobs in the Hunter though.

Senator Watt: As are we. You will be aware of the work that this Labor government has done to protect those jobs, as has the New South Wales Labor government.

Senator ROBERTS: And threatening coal.

Senator Watt: Well, it is a coal-fired power station that is coming to the end of its life whether we like it or
not.

Senator ROBERTS: It was brought forward, and now it’s been shoved back again. On the night of the election win in New South Wales state election in 2023, the incoming energy minister dropped a very big hint that they wanted to prolong the life of Eraring, and now they aren’t doing that.

Senator Watt: You’re talking about decisions of the New South Wales government. I couldn’t comment on that.

Senator ROBERTS: Your Labor government. Thank you.

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