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MORNINGTON ISLANDERS ABANDONED

Mayor Yanna has identified multiple problems with satisfying the needs of Mornington Islanders. After the closure of the canteen which served safe light beer, many of the people addicted to alcohol turned to poisonous home brew which destroyed their kidneys and is killing many.

It’s just another example of how despite billions of dollars in funding, the complaints of inner city activists are not helping indigenous people in their communities at all.

Transcript

Senator Roberts.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you Chair, and thank you for being here today. Six months or so ago in response to one of my constituents on Mornington Island. One of my office staff visited the island and he was shocked with the outright squalid conditions that the Islanders are forced to endure, absolutely through no fault of their own. We’re planning for me to visit with all the aboriginals in the coming dry season, right across the whole of the Cape, including Mornington Island. It’s recently been the subject of interest in the Queensland media due to the poverty and poor health the islanders living there. And I understand the Queensland Premier and the Queensland Health Minister have both said they will visit the island to see the conditions for themselves, so they’re obviously aware that it’s shocking. So my first question is, with the dwindling population of less than 1200 residents in Mornington Island why is the medical centre only manned by nurses with no resident doctor, to look after the needs of the residents when 50% of the population are reportedly having chronic diseases?

So well, it’s a very broad question.

[Malcolm Roberts] It is, yeah.

But I think, so in terms of provision of good primary health care for that then we don’t specifically mandate the requirements for each particular health centre that has to have X, Y, and Z. That tends to be the health clinics will tend to work out what they’ll need for that, most we’ll have arrangements where there is a nurse led post, which will deal with all of emergencies, and then that’s usually where they’ll connect up, and that is for a lot of the day-to-day provision of, for basic primary health care, for more chronic needs then most of the clinics have arrangements with, either they’ll have GPs visiting from time to time or they’ll connect people up on, in through other services in mainland to basically get that provision of GP service. So it depends, it varies a little bit from service to service, how that will be done. Mornington Island, I think we would need to go and check so I’m not actually sure whether that’s a community control clinic, it might actually be a Queensland Government clinic as well, possibly for that so we would need to go and find a bit more detail specifically around that but it does vary from community to community about how the clinics provide health care and how they will access into there for the GP services. But, nurse led processes are not uncommon in remote communities because they are a way of delivering good frontline healthcare and then connecting up with GP care…

[Malcolm Roberts] Yeah, I accept and understand that a lot of the nurses are wonderful, but why are so many residents of the island needing dialysis off island, and how many are treated this way? Now you probably have to give me that on notice.

We would need to, in terms of specific numbers about how many would be needed, the dialysis cohort on time I would absolutely have to go and check with that. And that dialysis is generally a state and territory provision through hospital and outreach services they’ve structured that, there are in various places in remote, you know dialysis chairs, and we did have some visiting services around that to return people in there, but obviously a lot of the people with dialysis can have other complex issues. So sort of being able to provide the dialysis in a setting that has that wider medical facilities is which is why quite often went out, why quite often dialysis occurs in hospital settings, and those sort of places. Although obviously there are some, there is a general movement in some areas to try and get dialysis back into closer to community, and that’s why we have things like Purple House and providers, particularly in the territory and some of the remote areas who will then provide dialysis closer to home.

Sorry Senator, we’ll probably have to take a lot of the detailed questions around Mornington Island specifically on notice, but certainly Mornington Island has a hospital and a healthcare centre run out of the hospital, that’s provided by Queensland Government, its staffing and its adequacy we’d need to talk to Queensland about as well.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you, so taking on from Mr Matthew’s point, it is more complex than just simple dialysis. Why is type two diabetes, for example, so common in the residents even including teenagers, and how many are treated for this? So you’d have to do that on notice.

We’d need to take that on notice.

[Malcolm Roberts] So with the chronic shortages of affordable fruit and vegetables and widespread malnutrition, have something to do with it?

I couldn’t comment without knowing the details Senator, but sadly chronic conditions and the incidents of chronic disease is high in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities…

[Malcolm Roberts] And even malnutrition?

Particularly, in remote communities.

[Malcolm Roberts] For such a small population, why is the death rate of residents so high? And how many deaths occurred last year, and why is the suicide rate in particular so high? Even extending to child suicides. And how many in the last year children and adults suicided?

Again, we would need to take the specific data, but I mean they’re obviously very multifaceted issues as well, that are not, you know there’s a range of factors across all of those that would lead to them that are not specific to a health intervention from a health clinic or something like that. There are any number of reasons what that would lead to those, outcomes is very complex.

[Malcolm Roberts] Yeah I accept that it’s complex, and we need to dig into the issue, and that’s what my questions are trying to do. Could the lack of quality accommodation be a cause when currently up to 11 people reportedly pack into small two bedroom houses, many people to the cramped rooms, or even are forced to sleep rough with no roof or protection from the tropical weather? So it’s not just health issue, it’s not just a suicide issue, it’s also a housing issue. So is the confusion about the native title status of the island affecting the health of that residence?

I don’t think we could speculate on that, I think Senator that would, yeah I don’t think we can speculate on that at all.

[Malcolm Roberts] ‘Cause we raised questions about native territory yesterday and it’s actually preventing, well we won’t go into that here. Is home brew a cause of the widespread kidney failure in the community?

We couldn’t comment without further information from Mornington Island.

[Malcolm Roberts] Perhaps I’ll ask several questions together and you can jump in if you can answer any, and I’m not criticising you for not being able, I accept the trustworthiness.

And a lot of these questions we may not necessarily be able to answer, that would be questions for the community broadly, as opposed to perhaps what, we will do what we can to answer them, but some of them it may not actually be appropriate for us to weigh the answer, or speak on behalf of the community…

[Malcolm Roberts] Perhaps you could let me know, yeah I accept that. Has the closure of the island canteen been an indirect cause of the overuse of poisonous home brew within the community? Would reopening of the canteen for managed and limited sales of low alcohol, mainstream alcohol be better than driving people addicted to alcohol to drive dangerous home brew? Would it be beneficial for the government to subsidise the costs of fresh fruit and vegetables for the community? Could the federal government fund and audit the commence but never completed market garden promised to the community by the government to assist the community to be self-sufficient in growing crops to feed themselves? Could the use of the once a week barge service be subsidised to lower the cost of bringing fresh fruit and vegetables, fresh milk and other healthy foodstuffs to the shops? There’s one grocery store there for the residents. But this is a really interesting question and again, I don’t expect an answer other than on notice. Why is there no fishing industry in a region rich with marine resources? There were three large tinnies that my staffer saw abandoned on the dump, because they needed simple welding repairs. Why is there no mechanical service on the island to keep machines, vehicles, and boats going? And this is the reason why many repairable vehicles and white goods stand abandoned across the island and at the dump. Why was the cattle herd that existed for many years in the island destroyed?

Senator Roberts, I understand the validity of your questions, but I’m not sure if the Department of Health is the right agency to be asking them to.

[Malcolm Roberts] I think we’re looking at a multi-faceted, multi-layered health issue and we need to get to the core of it. These communities have been abandoned in many senses for a long time.

[McCarthy] Environmental Health that’s what your…

[Malcolm Roberts] Well, many yeah. Living environment, perhaps if I could. Well, there’s another one here Chair, could the creation of real jobs at the residents perhaps involve the hundreds of wild horses that roam freely on the island? Could it assist to alleviate the high mental health depression problems of the community or the fishing industry, the tourism? And here’s the really important question I’m leading to, why are the many programmes currently on the island to assist youth and the aged on the island missing? They’re just not visible on the island. So I suggest that a real audit of services not a paper audit, but a real audit be provided to the island, and that’s desperately needed. Where’s the federal money going?

So Senator, we’re gonna take, we’re gonna have to take the majority of the health-related questions on notice, and specifically drill down into the funding that goes to Mornington Island, what it’s used for, how it responds to particular health issues. Obviously, there’s a range of other portfolios. And the state government that’s involved in funding there as well, and questions around industry development and jobs obviously…

[Malcolm Roberts] And the problem is a difficult one for you because it’s not, I’m trying to paint a picture that is not as simple, give them a jab or give them something else. It’s a really serious issue.

We understand Senator.

[Malcolm Roberts] As Senator McCarthy said.

Senator if I could just, I’ll give you some information on the market garden issue of Mornington Island. There is an existing market garden initiative on Mornington Island, which is delivered as an activity under the CDP. And we are aware that, and we’ve been talking with the Mornington Shire Council and they’re interested in establishing a larger commercial market garden for the community. And there, my understanding is they’re trying to negotiate now with traditional owners to gain the use of a parcel of land, which is subject to no title to develop a larger scale commercial garden. So, there is some movement in terms of market gardens there.

[Malcolm Roberts] Good.

It’s interesting you say that, we’re quite happy to take the health questions, I think we may need to, as I’m sure the secretary, but you know we’ll need to work and a lot of those questions really get to the broader social determinants which are well beyond the health departments, so we might need to work out where those are best addressed, because otherwise we will not be able to answer a lot of the questions broadly about, particularly employment, housing, fishing industries.

Perhaps some of your questions Senator directed more generally rather than to the Health Department with respect to. I understand…

As Senator McCarthy said…

No, I’m not disagreeing with you, but some of the questions that you’ve asked while having that broader, as Senator McCarthy said, environmental health perspective, but some of them clearly go to some of the other indigenous programmes rather than the more health specific ones that operate in that community, and it might be that you can get more definitive answers to your questions by directing them in a different way.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you for that advice, I’ll take heed of it. I’m also concerned though that, the people on the ground in these communities are not getting the money that’s being poured their way, and people in the Aboriginal industry seem to be taking it along the way. And that goes to every federal government, I’m not saying it applies to every federal government initiative, but it goes to a lot of the federal government pathways for money, and the people who really need it are not getting it.

I think that actually goes to the point that I was making with respect to some of the broad programmes that are operated and how they might be perhaps coordinated, is that sort of gets to what you’re talking about.

[Malcolm Roberts] And Senator Colbeck perhaps I could ask you, the paternalistic and patronising approach, I’m not accusing you of this, of supposedly helping these communities over many, many years is probably, well I’m sure it’s hurting them, having visited a lot of the communities, and maybe that’s something, a change in direction, because we can’t keep going like this.

Senator I think from a government perspective, what we would like to see is programmes that are effective on the ground. A lot of the conversation, I think today has been quite constructive in actually seeming to achieve that, getting results. So again, my point about where your questions get directed, then going to interrogating the way that some of those programmes work, so that, and the term continuous improvement has been used a few times here today, and certainly my aspiration and clearly yours, and others sitting around the table would be that we continue to improve the circumstances of people living in communities and how they are engaged as a part of that process is, as you quite rightly pointed out very important, rather than necessarily being imposed.

[Malcolm Roberts] Can I just make one final comment in response?

[McCarthy] Is it a comment or is it a question Senator Roberts?

[Malcolm Roberts] It is a comment to Senator Colbeck.

This is more a forum for asking questions of ministers than making comments to them.

[Malcolm Roberts] Well I’ll frame it as a question. Senator Colbeck…

[McCarthy] Fine.

[Malcolm Roberts] I’m familiar with continuous improvement versus step change, and what I’m suggesting here is continuous improvement to the same old process is not going work, we need a step change, wouldn’t you agree?

Senator I was not looking. Yeah look, I won’t disagree with you, I think clearly the circumstances and conditions need to be improved. It is quite a complex area as I think has been demonstrated by your questions and by your statements. And that would align with I think, all our aspirations.

[Malcolm Roberts] Thank you Chair.

Thank you very much Senator Roberts. We are due to adjourn at 3. Senator Dodson how much longer do you have to go?

Oh look I’m not going to punish people any further today.

You’re happy to…

I’ll wait until health comes up tomorrow or next week.

[Matthews] And we will have all the answers on the Kimberly, Senator Dodson, ready for you.

[Dodson] Don’t worry, they’ll come.

Wonderful.

And just to finish up, probably with just the one thing, just to further to Senator Roberts just around one thing that we do do in the health space I think, perhaps not. I don’t think it’s quite as relevant necessarily for Mornington Island as such, but obviously through the work we do to support comprehensive primary health care, driven by Aboriginal and Torres Strait community controlled organisations, that is effectively the reason why that is not growing, obviously grown from Aboriginal and Torres Strait people wanting to kind of that sense of self-determination and growing their health services, for that is about putting them in charge of health and getting improved outcomes through that, and so we are at the moment going through a process to strengthen, and work very collaboratively with the sector to strengthen that over the time, we have put funding into that sector to strengthen it. Recently, we injected about $90 million over three years into that, over recent times we put a further 36 million into that recently to expand services. There’s a new clinic in, that we’ve set up through in Puntukurnu, in Newman, in WA. So we have been trying to, and we will continue to keep working away with that sector in line with the new closing the gap agreement, because of that exact point you’re talking about there in terms of strengthening community and strengthening, you know, backing the local communities in to provide services for local communities.

And to acknowledge that I’ve seen communities in the Territory and in Queensland, who are proudly talking about some of the measures that they’re taking in regard to preventative health care through food and nutrition. So I acknowledge that.

So we are working very closely with the National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation and their affiliates on those matters, thank you.

Even though the government says they don’t want to mandate vaccination, they haven’t ruled out attaching it to everyday activities. That means they won’t rule out that you might have to be vaccinated to go to the pub which sounds as good as mandating it to me.

I believe in the vaccine being available to anyone who wants to take it, but it should be every individual’s choice whether they take it or not. I do not believe they should be government mandated. Where do you stand?

Transcript

[Malcolm Roberts]

Thank you chair. And thank you all for attending. What percentage of the population, that will, will receive a COVID 19 vaccine? Do you expect or plan?

[Brendan Murphy]

Well, we were, our target at present Senator, is to vaccinate all the adult population, the over eighteens off by the end of October, give them a first dose. So that’s I think approximately 20 million, I think?

About, about 20 million going on.

Yeah. Now we may then go on and vaccinate children. If we have vaccines that are registered and approved for children. And if they prevent transmission and that helps us with herd immunity, but there are no vaccine. There’s no trial data on children at the moment. So the vaccines are only registered for adults.

Or 16 to 18 in the case of one. But no nobody under 16 has a registered product at this point.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Will that include the elderly, the frail?

[Brendan Murphy]

Absolutely. Unless there is a medical contraindication which is very rare. So if someone is very close to end of life it may be decided that it’s not appropriate. But in general, absolutely. That’s what we’re doing in residential aged care. Vaccinating a lot of very elderly and very frail people.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Thank you. Do you have the constitutional or legislative power in your opinion, to impose mandatory vaccination?

[Brendan Murphy]

The government policy is very clear that we’re not. We’ve never imposed mandatory vaccination in Australia. We take the approach that we want to encourage, promote and provide the evidence for vaccination. There have been situations where, for example, with flu vaccination last year in aged care where there was a public health order that the States and territories made. That decided that you couldn’t enter a facility unless you had proof of flu vaccination. But that was that’s very different from, from making, from mandating a vaccine. It just means that you have to make a choice about whether you go into an aged care facility. And obviously for childhood immunisation similar rules have applied. With again, mostly enforced by the States and territories, with no jab no play and government policy with no jab, no pay. But none of those have said that you are by law required to be vaccinated.

[Malcolm Roberts]

In the States?

[Brendan Murphy]

Yeah, In the States. Nobody can force a medical intervention on another citizen. We can do a lot of things to encourage, promote. And in some cases to restrict situations of risk if you’re not vaccinated. But we have never taken the view that we can force a citizen to have a medical intervention.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And you won’t be taking that view.

[Brendan Murphy]

I, I can’t imagine. That’s not, we wouldn’t recommend it.

[Witness]

There is absolutely no proposal from the government to make any COVID vaccine compulsory for anybody.

[Malcolm Roberts]

So are there any policies or plans or ideas or has it been discussed to make something unavailable without the vaccine? Effectively making it compulsory?

[Brendan Murphy]

Well, again, there has been discussion at HBPC. About whether, and Professor Kelly can comment on that, whether, at some stage we might use the same approach that we used for flu last year. To say that if the COVID vaccine is really effective at preventing transmission, that to say that to work in aged care or to enter a facility you need to have a vaccination. But HBPC has decided that; A, there isn’t enough evidence on prevention of transmission at the moment. And, B it would be silly for such a public health order to be introduced until such time as all of those workers and community members who might visit aged care have had the opportunity to be vaccinated. So that is, that’s a live matter for consideration that will be reviewed as the evidence evolves.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Okay.

[Witness]

No, I’ll just be very clear here though, that the current position of the government is that this vaccine is voluntary and not withstanding that the HPCs work and the, and the health departments work. But the government’s position is very clear, that the vaccine is voluntary.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Thank you. And thank you, Dr. Murphy. I’ll just jump outside of vaccines for a minute. To understand the overall context, and then come back to vaccines. What are the main factors in managing a pandemic? I’ll just test my own knowledge with you first. Is isolate and arrest the vaccine, which is called a lockdown, I understand. Then there’s number two is, identify the location and the spread to get on top of the quickly. What’s that? testing, tracing and quarantine. Then there are attempts to reduce the transmissibility through restrictions like masks, gatherings, criticism, movement of people, sorry, not criticism, movement of people. Then the fourth one would be cure and prophylactic areas to try and prevent, to try and cure people of the virus. For example, antivirals. Number five would be vaccine. Have I, have any, have I included any that are wrong? Have I missed any?

[Brendan Murphy]

Well you’ve missed international borders, which is probably…

[Malcolm Roberts]

Isolate and arrest.

[Brendan Murphy]

Yeah, well, certainly that has been one of our most successful interventions. Was to prevent the importation of a virus from, despite all the impact that it’s had on our citizens overseas. It has been one of the most singularly important parts of our success in controlling COVID.

[Malcolm Roberts]

So there’s just isolate and arrest, which I include international borders. Identify the location and spread through testing, tracing, quarantine. Reduce the transmissibility through restrictions. Cure and prophylactic approach and vaccine.

[Malcolm Roberts]

That seems pretty complete Professor Kelly?

[Professor Kelly]

individual behaviours.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Sorry?

[Professor Kelly]

Individual behaviours. So the hand hygiene, cough into your elbow, that sort of stuff.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Okay. Thank you.

The following line of questioning occured after the end of the attached video clip (see HANSARD)

[Chair]

The last question.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Sure. Can I get, on notice, an assessment of the characteristics of the virus? We were told initially it was a respiratory disease and we shoved ventilators at people. Some people were telling us that it hinders the blood absorbing oxygen or uptaking oxygen. We were told about various treatments. Perhaps you could tell me, on notice, what are the characteristics you measure to assess the virus’s mortality and
transmissibility, and any other characteristics of the virus, and perhaps rank it relative to, for example, the decreasing order of impact. We’ve had the Black Death, the Plague of Justinian, smallpox, the Antonine Plague, the Spanish flu, the third plague, HIV/AIDS and now COVID-19, which is a fraction of the population affected. Is it possible to get that summary?

[Brendan Murphy]

We can certainly provide it. This virus is now well studied. Essentially, as we’ve said on many occasions, for most fit, young people it’s a relatively mild disease, but 126,000 people have died in the UK, a very similar country to us. We have avoided a very large death rate by controlling this virus, and we’re very proud of that achievement, Senator. Whilst it may be a mild disease, that means it transmits wildly. Older people and people with underlying conditions are at risk of getting severe respiratory disease and dying, as they have done in their millions around the world.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.