In March, I warned that the plight of Aboriginal children remains an indictment on governments past and present, while taxpayer funds are being swallowed by a sprawling “Aboriginal industry” of consultants, activists and bureaucrats that delivers little to the communities it claims to serve.

The gap is widening because there are too many people feeding off the system.

Adding yet another commission will only deepen confusion, waste and dependency, instead of delivering the basics children need.

Cut the bureaucracy, stop the hiving-off of funds, celebrate Aboriginal potential, and direct support based on real need, not race, so Aboriginal kids get real outcomes and taxpayers get accountability.

— March | Senate Question Time

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: The plight of Aboriginal children is well documented. We know that from so many people. Senator Pauline Hanson has been raising this issue for around 30 years. Senator Nampijinpa Price has done an exceptional job as well, and Senator Kerrynne Liddle and indeed the minister there. The plight of Aboriginal children is an indictment on parts of our society and especially on the government. I’m not just talking about the Labor government; I’m talking about previous uniparty governments and the Liberal-National coalition. 

I was visiting Badu Island a few years ago in the Torres Strait. A wonderful young councillor stood up and said, ‘While there is a Closing the Gap initiative, the gap will widen, because so many people are feeding off the Closing the Gap campaign that they have become dependent on it.’ I’m talking about the parasites who are pushing some of the Aboriginal industry. They’re white as well as black. The bureaucracy is massive and self-perpetuating. So many of the campaigns are to keep bureaucrats in a job. The bureaucracy is massive, and that means no accountability, and there is the heart of the problem. We now have an Aboriginal industry. 

Basic management shows that this commission will have negative effect. It won’t help. It will hamper and hurt. The aim is to look good, not do good. There are so many things we see every year in the House of Representatives. The Prime Minister—it doesn’t matter who it is, whether Liberal or Labor—and the opposition leader stand up and tell us things about how Closing the Gap is going backwards, and we’ve still got work to do, but it’s all rosy. It’s the stuff that comes out of the south end of a northbound bull. 

Minister, surely basic management shows that a system that is clogged like the Aboriginal industry is, with so many people feeding off it—consultants, activists, politicians, lawyers, academics—will be only clogged up further. What are your intentions for managing this properly so that it doesn’t clog up the system? 

Senator McCARTHY: Thank you, Senator, for the question. I certainly reject the assertion about ‘Aboriginal industry’ being a negative, Senator Roberts. We have, in fact, just this morning, certainly come together with the Coalition of Peaks—bodies that are clearly defined in the way that they work with local communities on the ground.

You mentioned Badu Island in the Torres Strait. I certainly commend our new convener—the joint convener, with me, on the joint council—and that is Donnella Mills, a Torres Strait Islander woman who is very passionate about wanting to ensure that, on the ground, in terms of local people having local solutions and support, they are supported by community controlled organisations. And those community controlled organisations are accountable, Senator Roberts.

They’re accountable every year, just like any other business in this country that’s provided with either federal or state or territory funds. They are accountable. They’re accountable to the parliaments. And they are certainly accountable to this Senate. That accountability is about transparency, Senator Roberts. So I would just caution you, if I may, around the language that you use that really stereotypes, in a very negative way, the good work that is being done by First Nations organisations and individuals across Australia.

I’ll just take this moment, Temporary Chair, if I may, to acknowledge the commissioner, Commissioner Hunter, in the gallery, and members of the Coalition of Peaks, and those who came this morning for the launch of our latest peak body.

Senator ROBERTS: You mentioned the Coalition of Peaks, Minister. There’s part of the issue. This is a massive bureaucracy. You’ve got to have representatives of the peaks. There’s no audit. And I’m speaking now on behalf of taxpayers, as well as Aboriginal children and Aboriginals. 

I’ve been to every one of the communities, white and black, on Cape York, and I’ve asked: What’s Close the gap? What do they know about Close the gap? What do they think about Close the gap? Some of the communities there don’t even know about Close the gap, because they’re not getting the benefits of the funding that’s coming from the taxpayers; it’s getting hived off by the parasites, white and black—activists, lawyers, consultants, lobbyists, academics, politicians and bureaucrats—along the way. 

How is this additional bureaucratic load, this additional constipating layer in the middle, going to strengthen coordination across government? It’s adding more people into the middle of this government mess. As I said, it’s not just your mess; it’s previous governments’ messes as well. 

Then these are going to be ‘advising the Commonwealth’—this is from your own bill. ‘Advising the Commonwealth’? How many more people do you need to get advice from? This is getting ridiculous! People across the country, especially Aboriginal people, are laughing at this. Some of them are crying at it. 

And then there’s the third activity: ‘undertaking and commissioning research into systemic issues and barriers’. There’s no doubt there are systemic issues and barriers. We can see them. Why do you need yet another group of researchers? This is just going to confuse the mess again. 

Then there’s ‘providing and commissioning educational programs’. Children won’t know which way is up, they’ll have so many different messages from so many different bureaucrats—so many different parasites. 

Next there’s ‘undertaking public advocacy’ to promote the rights and interests of children and young people. We’ve got so many people in parliament doing that. We’ve got so many people outside parliament doing that. You’ve got so many bureaucrats, tripping over each other, doing that. 

They’re ‘to amplify their voices and strengths’. Oh, really? Really? It’s not working so far. The nanny state is not working so far. 

As to engaging with children: how many more people are going to engage with children? These kids will have their heads spinning. What about basic needs? Get to the core of the problem. There are, clearly, crucial human needs, and they’re being bypassed by these people looking after their own administrative jobs. I also remain concerned about two things. One is that this is a divisive piece of proposed law that is defined by race. It draws distinctions and promotes divisions by race, which makes it racist. It overtly continues and entrenches the them-versus-us mentality that prevails in conjunction with the patronising mentality of victimhood status. 

In Aboriginals—and you’re an example of this, Minister—we have four per cent of Australians who are Aboriginal; we have 11 per cent of parliamentarians who are Aboriginal. Aboriginals have high potential, but so many are being locked into victimhood. Surely what we need to do is free up Aboriginals to fulfil their enormous potential. They’re leading in the NRL, the AFL, business, sport, academics and science, and yet some of the communities are terrible. I think we need to start celebrating Aboriginals rather than locking some victims— 

Senator Waters: Stop calling them parasites, then. What about all the taxpayer money you’re defrauding? You talk about parasites. You lie, you steal— 

Senator ROBERTS: I’ll take that interjection from Senator Waters. I’ll make it very clear: she misrepresented me then, because I am not calling Aboriginals parasites. I’m calling Aboriginals fantastic human beings with huge potential. I’m calling them parasites in the bureaucracy—the activists, the lawyers, the administrators, the bureaucrats, the consultants, the academics—who are living off the money that’s going from taxpayers to the Aboriginal industry. That’s what I’m talking about. This is just going to add more complexity and more bureaucracy. 

One Nation policy is to get rid of the Aboriginal industry, to save $15 billion, and instead provide real care through government grants based on real needs, regardless of skin colour. This bill has an aim, I believe, to look good, not to do good. In trying to look good, you do a lot of harm. You just add more to the constipating layer of bureaucrats. Minister, isn’t this an option to start celebrating Aboriginals, rather than casting them as victims, and to start giving grants based upon real needs? Isn’t that what’s really needed here?

Senator McCARTHY: Senator Roberts, firstly, I agree that we should celebrate First Nations culture in this country. I agree that there are many outstanding athletes, as we saw with the Rabbitohs recently and the great score trier that everybody roamed the field on with AJ. But there are many, many others, whether they’re athletes or otherwise. There are professionals in business, in the sciences and in our schools. We’ve even got our young woman here from Yirrkala, who’s doing very well— Siana, I’m watching you as a bit of a trailblazer for us.

You’re right that we should celebrate First Nations people and culture, Senator Roberts. But that’s probably about as far as our similarities might go, because I certainly reject the assertion that there is no accountability or transparency. As I said in my previous response to you, every organisation that is receiving funding does get audited, whether it’s from the Australian National Audit Office or having to provide their annual reports to this parliament.

I certainly have many statutory bodies whose reports have to be delivered to the Senate. That is accountability, Senator Roberts. That is where we differ. You keep asking for audits. Well, audits actually happen as an annual event for organisations, and those organisations that are not doing well obviously get picked up in this as well. Like non-Indigenous organisations and businesses, there are some across the country that don’t do well, and they need extra support to get them back on their feet or, like many, they go out of business.

The accountability structure is there in terms of the audits, and, as I said, I agree with you in terms of the celebration of First Nations people, but the way we do that is also about lifting families. This is why this bill is incredibly important. It’s important because we are listening to what the communities have been asking for for a long time. I might walk you through just a bit of that history. The Bringing them home report in 1997 actually raised this back then, and we’ve had subsequent organisations through the Coalition of Peaks.

There are 70 organisations who’ve given guidance on this. I would not dismiss—and I am sure you, as a senator for Queensland, would not dismiss—those who come to us to give advice. That’s what this parliament asks for in terms of the Coalition of Peaks and the agreement that we’ve signed with every state and territory to that Closing the Gap agreement. We’ve got organisations like SNAICC, which cares for the children. We’ve got VACCA, the Victorian Aboriginal Child and Community Agency, and the Korrie Youth Counsel.

All these organisations have come forward to say there needs to be this national commissioner. There needs to be a role where the national First Nations commissioner is there for the children who are being taken away, who are in out-of-home care. We’ve seen those figures rise staggeringly, especially in states like Victoria. Having the ability for the national children’s commissioner to work with each state and territory and to inform this parliament is absolutely critical. Senator Roberts, there are some things we kind of see a bit of similarity on, but probably most not.

But I do appreciate your interest. You have shown that at estimates as well in the questions that you’ve raised around communities. I would urge you and your party to get behind this bill. What Commissioner Hunter will be able to do is know that she has the support of this parliament behind her to work with our kids across the country.