I recorded this video with former Qantas airline captain, Graham Hood. While many people have opinions on this topic, a small group is deeply engaged in it. Is the fear they spread justified in Australia?

Hoody and I have both independently investigated and researched the existence of chemtrails in Australia. With 53 years of flying experience—including 30 years as an airline captain—Hoody shares some amazing yet verified facts.  The second half of our video discusses the fascinating aspects of our planet’s atmosphere.

Around the one-minute mark, Hoody briefly mentions his belief that weather geoengineering is already happening. I need evidence. That’s a conversation we plan to have in a future video—so stay tuned.

Just after the 51-minute mark, Hoody recommends a video from Del Bigtree’s YouTube channel – The Highwire. 👉Watch it below. This is a chat between two Americans, Del Bigtree and Jim Lee.  Jim has spent years investigating chemtrails and based on his evidence, he explains that while there have been instances of the U.S. Air Force spraying chemtrails in the past, the issue today with commercial aircraft is not chemtrails, rather it’s real pollution.

Hoody reminds us of the Serenity Prayer, encouraging us to use our serenity, courage and wisdom to focus on the big issue. In Australia, are chemtrail claims a distraction from the bigger issue we all face: awakening and restoring our country – or are they a legitimate concern? You decide.

The Highwire: Del Bigtree Interviews Jim Lee

Transcript: Chemtrails or Contrails with Senator Malcolm Roberts and “Hoody” Graham Hood

Senator ROBERTS: Hi, this is Senator Malcolm Roberts at the House of Graham Hood, Captain Graham Hood.

Graham Hood: Former captain.

Senator ROBERTS: Former Captain Graham Hood, who’s a pilot for how many years, mate?

Graham Hood: 53 years a pilot, 32 years a captain of Qantas.

Senator ROBERTS: And an inquisitive mind. Both of us received many questions about what people call chemtrails, so we’ve had that in recent years. So I just want to ask Graham some questions and I also want to put some points to Graham and he can challenge me on them.

Graham Hood: Sure, sure. [inaudible 00:00:44].  Can I say something before we do?

Senator ROBERTS: You go, mate, it’s your [inaudible 00:00:47].

Graham Hood: I just want to say, look, the material that we’re going to present may upset some people, but whose whole life seems predicated on the existence of chemtrails. And I want to state right up front, as I’ve done a thousand times, that I totally believe that they are weather engineering. I totally believe that weather modification programs have been going on for a long time and they’re developing it in certain ways. But when I see people showing me a photograph of something that I see as normal in the sky, they don’t see it as normal, but I spent half a century up there. I think that there’s too much fear in the world that we live in now, and that it governs everything. It makes us all way too cynical, and I believe that people who are fighting for our freedoms are as guilty as perpetrating fear narratives on others to control them as on the other side.  So I want to make it clear, I’m not here to convince you that what you are thinking is wrong.

Senator ROBERTS: Same here.

Graham Hood: All I want to do is give you an explanation to ease your burden a little bit because the real enemy is out there, the real enemy is… Let’s face it, we’re starting to see now a communist take over the world. That’s clear that that’s happening. And all these things are distractions, so we’ve got to make sure we keep our eye on the ball. So the reason I’m going through this again for the hundredth time is because it needs to be said because there’s too many people who are anxious to the point of distraction over what’s going on in the sky. And I just want to add mine to you bob’s worth. And I want anybody watching this to make up your own minds and play it how you see fit. That’s fine. I’m not here to control you, I’m not here to persuade you otherwise. I’m just here to tell you what I know.

Senator ROBERTS: All we want to do is stop people trying to control the population.

Graham Hood: That’s exactly right.

Senator ROBERTS: We’re not in favour of control and we don’t want to replace someone else’s attempt to control [inaudible 00:02:41] control. We just want to present some concepts and for people to think about.

Graham Hood: Absolutely.

Senator ROBERTS: And you took the words right out of my mouth. I’m going to use notes because we’ve got a lot of material. It’s pretty comprehensive. And Hoodie doesn’t know what I’ve got, he hasn’t read them, so I’m going to pop them on him. And I’m going to not read them, but I’m going to go through the points one by one on my list because that would be the best way of making it comprehensive. Now, a few constituents, as I said, have been concerned about these and have contacted us. When you see what governments have done with tens of thousands of homicides in this country alone with toxic injections forcibly injected into people, no real choice, and they’re trying to kill people, it’s willful ignorance or it’s deliberate, but they’re homicides regardless. Tens of thousands. Who wouldn’t be scared that when you see something in the sky, it’s not the government trying to pollute your lives. Who wouldn’t be?

Graham Hood: I’m 100 times more sceptical than I was five years ago about things, and that’s natural. Healthy scepticism is good, but we’ve got to make sure we manage that because otherwise they get control over us in much easier ways than we would let them normally.

Senator ROBERTS: And that fear, as Hoodie said, and I agree, is understandable. Let me also point out the Baeder-Meinhof effect. The Baeder-Meinhof phenomenon. This is a definition a reader… Known as the frequency illusion is a cognitive bias where something recently learned or suddenly noticed seems to appear everywhere even though its actual frequency hasn’t changed. So this perception is due to your brain’s increased attention and awareness towards that specific element. It’s like getting another car, whether second-hand or you get a different model car, all of a sudden you start seeing that car everywhere before you didn’t see it.

Graham Hood: Exactly. Michelle’s got plantar fasciitis at the moment, which is a tearing of muscle structure under the foot. I’ve never heard of that until now. And now everyone I meet’s got plantar fasciitis. And I’m noticing it because… They always had it, but I’m now noticing it because people are talking about it.

Senator ROBERTS: Before it just didn’t register.

Graham Hood: Didn’t register, yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: I’m also concerned on the other hand, Hoodie, that many people in our communities cannot see the things that I’ve seen for many, many years. The UN Lima Declaration, which gutted our manufacturing. Even Kyoto Protocol, which gutted our energy sector. Paris Agreement, Net Zero. These are things that are real and we have difficulty-

Graham Hood: We talked today about the Howard government and how they got control of farmer’s land-

Senator ROBERTS: Stole it.

Graham Hood: Stole it. And how they did it in a way that was… That’s a story, that’s a whole other show in and of itself. Yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: Agenda 21’s sustainable development goals.

Graham Hood: Yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: So many people ridicule the notion of chemtrails in Australia. I don’t ridicule the idea. I’m open to there being chemtrails in Australia. I have never denied it. I won’t say there are chemtrails in Australia because I haven’t seen evidence for it. So I won’t say there aren’t any, I won’t say there are some. I just don’t know. And I think it’s likely, highly likely that the USA military are doing trials on these things. USA military, the American military have done inhuman experiments with drugs and chemicals that have killed army people and army soldiers in America, and they’re probably doing the same with the Air Force. And a high proportion of what people claim is evidence that comes to us is from the Americans.

Now, people may not know this, but I publicly invited anybody in Australia or anywhere in the world to send me evidence of these events in Australia. And I did that on the 13th of September 2022, open invitation on my website and on social media. Repeatedly, I issued that invitation. And we have researched Civil Aviation Safety Authority, the ACT and Snowy Authority, the ACT territory government. We’ve researched the Snowy Hydro Tassie about cloud seeding. Freedom of Information, Parliamentary Library. We know that there’s been cloud seeding in Tassie.

Graham Hood: I nearly got a job doing cloud seeding when I was a young pilot in Tassie.

Senator ROBERTS: We know that they’ve cloud seated in the Snowy. We know that they’ve cloud seated in the ACT or at least talked about it. We also know that that cloud seeding, sometimes it’s from aircraft, sometimes it’s from ground-based cannons shooting into the atmosphere. We’ve asked the Parliamentary Library to research the use of potential chemtrails, they have failed to find evidence. And if the Parliamentary Library can’t find it, it’s not there. That’d be fantastic. They’re neutral from Parliament, so they’re not playing games. We confirmed cloud seeding, as I said, ground-based and aerial, and most of the time it failed. Cloud seeding is expensive and it’s not very effective. Snowy Hydro is currently exploring the use of it again.

Graham Hood: But once again, cloud seeding requires cloud to be present, to be seated. It is not to create cloud, it’s to get the cloud to dump the moisture. And it does that by introducing microscopic nuclei into the cloud for the microscopic nuclei that’s in there to fasten itself to. So you might get a particle of silver iodide in the cloud, which attracts maybe 4,000 little minute microscopic molecules of water, [inaudible 00:08:15] into one droplet heavy enough to fall out of the cloud. So that’s been going on since the 1950s. CSIRO were doing all that sort of stuff.

Now, whether that’s right or wrong or whether it’s good or not, that’s debatable. But as I said, when I was a young sprog pilot back in the late 70s, I was offered a job flying a light aircraft around at low level, dropping silver iodide into cumulus clouds to get them to rain on drought affected areas. I didn’t get the job, somebody else got it. But yeah, I’m aware that that’s been going on. But I reiterate, you have to have cloud to seed. Cloud seeding is not making cloud, it’s getting existing cloud to drop the water.

Senator ROBERTS: And while I don’t respect CASA, Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

Graham Hood: Me neither.

Senator ROBERTS: They’re the ones who have to issue permits. So if they’re lying to me in Senate estimates, then I need proof that they’re lying to me. I can’t just accuse them of lying and I won’t do that, not even understand privilege. I won’t do that unless I believe they’re lying and I have not seen evidence to that effect. We’ve also known that the British air force, the American air force during the Second World War used to drop pieces of aluminium. They call it aluminium chaff, long thin strips of aluminium deliberately to confuse the enemy radar. So that’s known. But that’s not a chemical to drop out of the sky, that’s a metal that they’re dropping out of the sky.

Graham Hood: Would pitfall.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s right. Out of aluminium.

Graham Hood: Yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s not geoengineering. We also know that crop dusting pushes out insecticides and fertilisers. That’s not geoengineering. It’s not a chemtrails. We know that that’s happening.

Graham Hood: That’s been going on for your aeons as well.

Senator ROBERTS: And we know that helicopters, pilots in Queensland, South East Queensland are baiting fire ants. That’s a ridiculous notion, but they’re not baiting fire ants, they’re spreading toxic pesticides, insecticides around. That’s not geoengineering. We know that they’re happening. We don’t like it and we’re doing what we can to stop it.

Graham Hood: It’s still corrupted. And once again, government demonstrating it can’t be trusted.

Senator ROBERTS: Correct. So there’s no evidence to support chemtrails in Australia. I’m a senator for Queensland and Australia. I’m interested in what’s happening in America and other places, but I’m vitally concerned with what’s happening in Australia and after extensive research, my office and I cannot find any evidence of chemtrails or geoengineering in our country.

You know this from being a pilot, I know it from being an engineer and a mine manager, if I lied and did not do my numbers properly, people died. Same with you. So if we pursue unsubstantiated claims, it destroys my credibility for other issues. It wastes my staff time and my time. It wastes our energy. It stops us chasing real issues for constituents.

Graham Hood: It’s a distraction.

Senator ROBERTS: It’s a distraction. If there’s evidence though, I will chase the hell out of it. I’ve done that with climate fraud and I keep doing it with climate fraud. I’ve done it now in my own time and in Senate time for close on 17 years. So climate fraud. COVID, I’ve chased that like a demon and I’ll still keep chasing. Infant injections, environmental aspects [inaudible 00:11:29], water. So let me now go through, Hoodie, and contradict me if you think I’m wrong. This is what people send us. “What about all the patents, Malcolm? What about all the patents?” You can get a patent granted to you for an idea, a concept, it doesn’t mean it’s actually happening. So that’s not evidence of chemtrails.

Graham Hood: The patent offices around the world are filled with millions, hundreds of millions of designs that have never been implemented. So a patent doesn’t mean anything.

Senator ROBERTS: No.

Graham Hood: Nothing.

Senator ROBERTS: It’s not evidence.

Graham Hood: No.

Senator ROBERTS: What about grant submissions and proposals for geoengineering to dim the sun because of climate fraud? That doesn’t mean anything either. It’s just a grant submission, a grant application. Why? Because they’re in on the climate fraud and they want to get the moolah. They want to get the cash out of the climate scam. Then I think this is a common one that people have sent to you, pictures of clouds. Pictures of clouds or of a flight path on its own. That’s it. That’s not evidence of chemtrails, it’s not evidence of geoengineering.

Graham Hood: No. And hopefully later on I can explain how those things exist and why and why they last longer than they used to.

Senator ROBERTS: A storm is not proof of anything. A picture of a storm or a record rainfall or sub-record rainfall, that’s not evidence of anything, that’s just evidence of a storm. And Hoodie, this is something that I think is very, very important. Nature absolutely dwarfs humanity. The amount of energy captured in the sky is phenomenal. The amount of energy required to lift a glider, a soarer, a pilot, a kilometre into the air, it is just phenomenal.

Graham Hood: Absolutely.

Senator ROBERTS: They can have 10, 15 glider pilots on one thermal and they’re all going up in one thermal. That amount of energy is incomprehensible to humans. But that’s there in just a small part of the atmosphere [inaudible 00:13:21] the whole atmosphere. We lived in Emerald, a wonderful town in central Queensland, my wife and I, and there was a… Lake Maraboon, Fairbairn Dam, it was getting close to being empty. It’s a massive dam and it’s got only a small catchment area. They were putting in place water restrictions and all of a sudden we got a storm. Seven days that dam was not only full, it was overflowing. Half of central Queensland was under water.

There is no way anyone can comprehend the power required to take that much water from the Pacific Ocean, 150 kilometres inland, dump it in a small catchment area and flood our dam and flood central Queensland.

Graham Hood: It’s phenomenal.

Senator ROBERTS: Nature is just so impressive. So we will have little chance of controlling the weather, but I’ll raise that again. Hoodie, what about this one? “Malcolm, there are United States in America where they are legislating against chemtrails.”

Graham Hood: Wonderful.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s good. That’s good.

Graham Hood: Wonderful.

Senator ROBERTS: But we’ve got legislation here and in the United States against burning hydrocarbon fuels to reduce carbon dioxide. That’s all bullshit. Just because someone passes legislation doesn’t mean anything. It’s the evidence that the actual event is happening.

Graham Hood: But if I could say there when I said wonderful, I mean that’s great because in order to do that, they have to investigate it because how do they determine who’s doing it and why and where it’s coming from. I think RFK said in the States the other day, they’re going to look into the chemtrail phenomenon, I think that’s brilliant because at last we’ll get some real evidence.

Senator ROBERTS: Whether it occurs.

Graham Hood: Whether it occurs or not. So that [inaudible 00:15:06] I think that’s fantastic. So I’m all for that.

Senator ROBERTS: Yes. And what I raised that for was to say that we’ve got derpy bastards in Congress in America, derpy bastards in Parliament and Australia and the UK and many other countries around the world that are passing legislation that’s based on rubbish. So just because they passed legislation does not mean anything, but the fact that they will have to enforce it or try to enforce it, that does mean something. So I agree with you.

Graham Hood: Yep.

Senator ROBERTS: Then I watched The Dimming. People said, “Watch The Dimming, Hoodie. Come on, watch The Dimming, Malcolm.” The Dimming is a movie by Dane Wigington?

Graham Hood: Yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s American. It’s a 40-minute video. I lasted 20 minutes. It is just crap. There is no scientific understanding behind the production of that video. That’s my view.

Graham Hood: Yeah, look, I’ve watched it several times because I interviewed Dane Wigington and I find him a very charismatic… He’s a charming guy, he’s a really nice guy, but he’s very passionate about this. But a lot of the evidence that he presents is so easy for anyone with any knowledge of this to shoot holes in. And when you start to doubt some of the information that people have presented, you are automatically led to doubt all of it. If he’s wrong about World War II bombers over Germany making chemtrails-

Senator ROBERTS: And you’re going to show that picture later.

Graham Hood: I’ll show you a picture that proves that he’s wrong and the logic just defies belief that they would even be doing that. The average lifespan of the American bomber crew over Europe in daylight bombing raids was four missions. Nearly all of them died. They just really copped it. I’ve been inside one of those B-17 bombers. There’s no room. You can’t swing a cat in there. They’re not huge, they’re only little.

They were scrounging for every ounce they could get to carry fuel to get them home and ammunition to keep the fighters at bay. The notion that they were up there experimenting, doing beta testing is laughable. I presented a photograph taken from the front of the bomber squadron, which upset Dane Wiginton when I interviewed him. It upset him because-

Senator ROBERTS: It destroyed his argument.

Graham Hood: It destroyed his argument. And that photo will be included. That’ll be included in this video for you to see for yourself.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Let’s move on. There’s a video that I’ve been sent as claiming to be proof President Lyndon Johnson saying, “We are working on getting control of the weather.” What he’s doing there, he is doing what some politicians do, he’s telling lies. They might be working on it, but he implied in a dishonest way that they’re getting controlled further. Why? Because tornadoes kill people. Hurricanes and cyclones kill people.

Graham Hood: Flags kill people.

Senator ROBERTS: We’ll look after you mate, Mr. Taxpayer. We’ll look after you. We’ll spend your money on research, which will get us to control the weather. And then you’ll only have beautiful days and rain when the farmers want it.

Graham Hood: Yeah. And you can bet your bottom dollar they were working on it then as they’re working on it now.

Senator ROBERTS: Yep. Weather events, I’ve been told storms, Lismore’s rainfall in the 2022 flood. Jennifer Marohasy, who’s a known climate scientist and very highly regarded, she also is a marine biologist, she’s very, very objective. She said that the rainfall in 2022 around Lismore was less than in 1955. And in Brisbane we’ve had floods in 2022, 2020 rather, 2011… Sorry, 2022, 2011. And then they were small compared to 1974. 1974 was tiny compared to 1893 when we had three floods in one summer in Brisbane, and they were tiny compared to the 1841 floods, which were tiny compared to some of the earlier records in nature.

Graham Hood: Yeah, [inaudible 00:18:57] 1974 flood on the Gold Coast. We saw canal front homes just disappearing under the water. That was incredible back there.

Senator ROBERTS: So floods are nothing unusual. Everyone should have heard of Dorothy Mackellar’s poem, I Love a Sunburnt Country. You get droughts, floods, and when we get a drought or a flood or a bushfire, people say, “It’s global warming.” It’s not, it’s just life in Australia.

Graham Hood: Then you’ve got other people saying it’s weather modification. So is it global warming or weather modification? So you’ve got two [inaudible 00:19:26] fighting one another.

Senator ROBERTS: It’s just nature.

Graham Hood: It’s just nature.

Senator ROBERTS: So we have not seen any evidence of weather modification or chemtrails coming out of that. And then some people say Hoodie, “The water is contaminated. These chemicals are falling out of the sky and contaminated the water.” Yet the national water quality testing shows no chemicals other than the normal background trace chemicals that aren’t at normal levels, nothing unusual, there’s been no spike. State governments and federal governments monitor these. There’s nothing special, not nationally, not in any state, not in any region. So they’re [inaudible 00:20:02] tailoring anything. And then, mate, when I say to people, “That’s not evidence, we need this kind of evidence, which I’ll go into in a little while,” I get told, “You’re a Turkey,” or, “You’re a F-wit,” or, “You’re a whatever.” Name-calling and labelling is not evidence. So I just say evidence please when they come back with me at that.

Graham Hood: Yeah, I’ve been called a baby killer by heaps of people. This is the thing that people have got to recognise too. If they, who are doing this, are doing this, then where do they live? What atmosphere do they live under? Do they walk around in PBE? You know what I’m saying?

Senator ROBERTS: Yeah.

Graham Hood: Why would you willingly go up and poison the atmosphere you yourself are living in. The atmosphere is being poisoned just by nature of us doing the things we do, but the climate has a way of dealing with all of that. It always has. It always has.

Senator ROBERTS: So there’s nothing [inaudible 00:21:00] going on. And in fact, when people send me what they see as evidence and I debunk it or say, “That’s not evidence, and I need something” along the lines I’ve talked about in a minute, and they resort to name-calling or giving me a label. That tells me they haven’t got evidence because if they had evidence, they would’ve given it to me. So when you slander me, slur me or defile me, that’s not evidence.

Then somebody’s mentioned Atmospherica are in Toowoomba. It’s a company that’s in Toowoomba. I’ve gone to their website. They claim to be able to modify droughts to get rain. They claim to be able to one day or potentially if you hire them, decrease the impacts of tornadoes in America. Now, I saw no evidence on their website. I’m open to a conversation with them. So if anyone knows anyone in Atmospherica, give me a call. I might even give them a call. But I saw no evidence, only claims of results and claims of potential results.

So the only results that I could see on their website were of rain that they claim was due to them putting in drought busting cloud seeding.

Graham Hood: Cloud seeding again?

Senator ROBERTS: I think so, yeah.

Graham Hood: Okay.

Senator ROBERTS: But it was very, very vague, nothing specific. So I’d welcome a chat and a briefing. The other thing, Hoodie, that’s disturbing, and basically if you come back to the understanding of climate science, an understanding of science, people don’t understand what science is. They don’t understand what court evidence is. To get a guilty verdict in a court case, if you took them to court and accused them of putting dangerous chemicals into the air, what would a judge or a jury need to be able to convict them? That’s what’s got to happen. So I’ll get onto that in a minute. Let’s talk about it now.

What you need is empirical scientific data. You need observations with the eyes, ears. You need measured results. What was put into the plane? What came out of the plane? Did you see it coming out of the plane? Did you measure it coming out of the plane? Did you measure the impact on the ground, measure it in the atmosphere? You have another plane coming along. That’s what’s needed, empirical scientific data, empirical, actual observed, and recorded. That’s what we need. But that’s not all you need. What you need is logical scientific points. You need the data within a logical scientific point, which is a framework that says, “This happened, it caused this. This was the input.” Who put this into the plane? What did they put into the plane? Why did they put into the plane?

Graham Hood: Who made what they put into the plane?

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. When did they put it into plane? Where did they fly? What were the measurements coming out of it? These are all needed for us to make a strong case. Just imagine a judge or a jury wanting to find someone guilty of putting toxic chemicals into the air. So what’s happened is that science has been doctored for climate, there’s no empirical scientific data within logical scientific points. It’s all experts being quoted, it’s all models being used, which are unvalidated and erroneous. So they’ve already been disproved themselves, but still we’ve got lots of the Western world being crippled by energy shortages now based upon bullshit.

But the other thing is you’ve got to prove cause and effect. This was done, this was the effect. That’s part of it. So you need three things, empirical scientific data. Observations, within logical scientific points that prove cause and effect, this happened and this was the result. So then we’ve got the confusion with reality. That’s the next topic and I’d like you to jump in here, Hoodie. Contrails, mate. What about contrails?

Graham Hood: Contrails is short for condensation trails.

Senator ROBERTS: Condensation trails.

Graham Hood: Condensation trails. Look, a lot of people have said, and we even talked with Christine, your wife here today over lunch, and she said, “When I was a kid in the 60s and 70s, condensation trails over the USA didn’t last very long. They petered out, but now they’re big, they last forever and they spread out and they form cloud.” She’s right and the reasons why she’s right I’d like to explain.

Senator ROBERTS: You gave us a great explanation before. [inaudible 00:25:22].

Graham Hood: And I’ll be putting photographs up for people to have a look at. I’ve done this before, bet some people may have seen this stuff. Back in the early stages of the jet age when the Boeing 707 and the Whispering T-Jet, the 727.

Senator ROBERTS: What’s that? 60s, 70s, 90s.

Graham Hood: 60s, 70s, yeah. When they brought jet air travel into the world, the engine size of those aircraft was small by comparison to today. They were also what was called a turbojet engine or a low bypass jet engine. In other words, all the fuel was burn to create the thrust through the core of the jet engine itself. So the more fuel you burn, the more thrust you created and the further you could go and the faster you could go.

Senator ROBERTS: So the fuel came in, ignited, went at the back creating thrust, which moved the plane forward?

Graham Hood: That’s right. So the turbine engine worked like that basically. That was very inefficient. You’ll see a lot of footage of 707s and DC-8s taking off from Mascot or wherever in the old days, and you see them on takeoff. You see these black clouds of soot coming out of the back of the engine.

Senator ROBERTS: Products of combustion.

Graham Hood: Products of combustion. Very, very inefficient. Then along come the high bypass engines of today, and this is a Boeing 737. This is the aeroplane I used to fly in Qantas. The engines of today are that much bigger. Now, the Boeing 707, the first jet airliner, apart from the Comet, the Havilland Comet, which had small engines as well.

Senator ROBERTS: It was a British Constellation that came on after them.

Graham Hood: No, the Super Constellation was a propeller-driven aeroplane.

Senator ROBERTS: Oh, that’s right. Okay.

Graham Hood: The Comet was the jet engine of the British and the 707 was the equivalent from Boeing.

The engines on the 707 were that small by comparison. And here’s a photo that I’m going to insert. This is John Travolta standing alongside a Qantas 707 jet engine. He’s leaning on the top of it. I would be flat out fitting down the middle of that engine. If they took the core of it out and the engine to settle the cowling, I would be flat out fitting down there myself.

Senator ROBERTS: I get down in there?

Graham Hood: You might just get [inaudible 00:27:39]. But then you have this aeroplane, the Boeing 737. You can fit four of those 707 engines inside that engine.

Senator ROBERTS: The same amount of thrust?

Graham Hood: Probably, yeah. Now, if we’re talking semantics about the numbers, I haven’t got those numbers.

Senator ROBERTS: What do you mean you would [inaudible 00:27:59]?

Graham Hood: The size of the jet engine itself that sits off wing, you could pack four of those into this engine [inaudible 00:28:08] here.

Senator ROBERTS: So engines have grown much, much bigger?

Graham Hood: Much bigger, bigger.

Senator ROBERTS: Bigger size.

Graham Hood: Now, the jet core in the engine itself, which is geared now to a gearbox, which drives a big fan, turbofan in the front of the cowling. The turbofan produces about 85% of the thrust. And the jet core itself, which used to produce 100% of the thrust in the early engines, is now producing some thrust to drive the aircraft forward, but most of the energy is used to drive that big fan.

Senator ROBERTS: So the fan creates most of the thrust.

Graham Hood: The fan creates most of the thrust.

Senator ROBERTS: So you’ve got fuel being ignited in the jet core, which then turns the turbine, which delivers the thrust?

Graham Hood: Right. That intake is sucking in vast volumes more of atmosphere than the Boeing 707 engine used to. If that atmosphere is carrying a lot of water vapour-

Senator ROBERTS: Which is normal.

Graham Hood: Which is normal, but that varies. When we have droughts, there’s not a lot of water vapour in the sky. That’s why we have droughts. But in conditions where there’s a lot of water vapour in the sky, we get a lot of rain and that water vapour condenses. So this huge engine here, which is big by comparison to the 707 sucks in vast amounts, more atmosphere, squeezes it like a sponge, condenses it, passes that condensation over a hot jet core in the middle of the engine, which is 1,700 degrees.

Senator ROBERTS: 1,700 degrees centigrade.

Graham Hood: Centigrade. As it comes out the back, it’s starting to turn into steam. Now, the temperature out here at cruising altitude before the air goes through the engine is about minus 55 degrees centigrade.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s way less than freezing temperature.

Graham Hood: Way less than freezing temperature. But those that water vapour, which is a gas, has to turn into a water droplet before it can freeze. So when the engine sucks in all that atmosphere squeezes, it, compresses all that water vapour, then super heats it through past the core, then it comes out the back, it goes from minus 55 here, passes through the core here over 1700 degrees Celsius, and comes out the back through that exhaust pipe at the back, around that exhaust pipe at the back. And the temperature of that exhaust pipe is around 780 to 800 degrees.

Senator ROBERTS: So coming out of the exhaust?

Graham Hood: Out of the exhaust.

Senator ROBERTS: [inaudible 00:30:35].

Graham Hood: So all that moisture just-

Senator ROBERTS: Which is way, way, way, way above boiling point.

Graham Hood: Way above boiling point.

Senator ROBERTS: So any moisture coming out of the back comes out of steam?

Graham Hood: That’s right. And then what happens is that that’s superheated-

Senator ROBERTS: [inaudible 00:30:51] visible?

Graham Hood: Yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: Usually?

Graham Hood: Yeah. So when that superheated water droplets come out the back, they come out the back in minus 55 degrees again and they freeze into microscopic ice particles, crystals, and they form Cirrus clouds.

Senator ROBERTS: So Cirrus cloud is composed of ice crystals?

Graham Hood: Ice crystals.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay.

Graham Hood: And they’re minute and they’re not dense enough to be able to fall out of the sky. They remain suspended in the upper atmosphere. And if they did, they would start to thaw and they would evaporate before they got anywhere near the ground anyway. So these engines, as a byproduct of thrust, are producing Cirrus Cloud. Now, that then lingers because there’s much more volume than there used to be in the old days. Now, you look at that-

Senator ROBERTS: Can we also just point out something else? With a con trail, quite often, depends on the atmosphere that quite often the actual trail will be seen some distance behind the wing.

Graham Hood: Yes.

Senator ROBERTS: Because it takes… The plane is moving forward. So when the ice comes out of the jet engine-

Graham Hood: When the steam comes out, yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: Sorry, when the steam comes out at the jet engine, by the time the planes move forward in another second, you’ve got a huge gap before it actually freezes. And so you’ve got a gap between the plain wing, the plain engine, and the actual start of the white condensation trail [inaudible 00:32:22].

Graham Hood: That’s right. That’s right. Now, if you were spraying out of a nozzle along in a tank, you’d see it connected to the nozzle, you’d see the spray connected to the nozzle.

Senator ROBERTS: You’d see the trail coming out-

Graham Hood: The trail coming out of the nozzle

Senator ROBERTS: Or out of the wing.

Graham Hood: Now, I’m talking, but this is a short haul aeroplane. This is a small aeroplane, a Boeing 777, which is one of the largest twin-engine aeroplanes around, and you’ve got the Airbus A330, A350, and other variants they’re bringing out, the engines that drive those bigger aircraft is as big as the fuselage, this cabin area in diameter.

Senator ROBERTS: So the whole cabin can almost fit inside the core of the-

Graham Hood: [inaudible 00:33:06] engine of a 777 or one of the larger Airbuses.

Senator ROBERTS: And you’re going to show a picture.

Graham Hood: I’ll show a diagram of that. So basically I could fly that fuselage, that entire cabin down the throat of a 777 engine. Imagine the difference in production of turning water vapour into condensation through an engine that’s that big. And then you get the A380, the super jumbo whose engines are even bigger than that again. And here’s a photo of a man standing underneath an A380 engine. And you can see for yourself. These new high bypass turbofan engines produce Cirrus Cloud as a byproduct of thrust.

Senator ROBERTS: And the amount of thrust coming out of a modern large jet engine is many, many, many times greater than that or greater than the early jet engines.

Graham Hood: Greater than the early jet engines.

Senator ROBERTS: In the space of just 70 years, which is the lifespan of a man or a woman, we have come that far. So what’s the consequence of that in what we see in the sky?

Graham Hood: The consequence is that if you get the volume of air traffic that we have every day around the world, what was it, 38 million flights?

Senator ROBERTS: In a year.

Graham Hood: In a year. 38 million commercial airline flights a year and they’re pumping out all that kerosene, burning all that kerosene in the upper atmosphere, and they’re turning moist air masses into cloud, that stuff lingers in the upper atmosphere, and yes, aircraft like these are producing cloud, but not in the fairest ways that people think.

Senator ROBERTS: And another point you mentioned to Christine, and she raised this where she said, “Off will go a Virgin flight, two minutes behind, we’ll go Jetstar flight.”

Graham Hood: Now you’re talking about the patterns in the sky. Everyone says, “What are these grid patterns?” All right, so early morning, an early day staff for me in Sydney, for example-

Senator ROBERTS: Cold air.

Graham Hood: Cold air. If I was the first flight of the day out of Sydney, the curfew comes off at 6:00 AM. And let’s say here I am in my Boeing 737 taxiing out to Runway 16 in Sydney to depart to Melbourne. And stacked up behind me in the queue is another probably one of these, which is going down over Canberra towards Adelaide, and then there’ll be a Jetstar one going down over Canberra towards Adelaide, there’ll be a Virgin one going down over Canberra towards Adelaide, and then there’ll be another Virgin, Jetstar, whatever, going to over Canberra to Melbourne. So in the space of an hour, you’ve probably got a couple of dozen flights heading down over Canberra, for example. I’m using Canberra as an example.

Now, the upper atmosphere that we fly in when we go north-south is generally moving across the sky from west to east-

Senator ROBERTS: Heading for New Zealand.

Graham Hood: Heading for New Zealand. The velocity of the air mass moving through can be anything from 30 or 40 knots or say 100 Kilometres an hour upwards to 300 Kilometres an hour depending on the-

Senator ROBERTS: 300 kilometres an hour?

Graham Hood: The wind speed up can be over 150, 180 knots.

Senator ROBERTS: So the plane’s going basically south, but the air above it or below-

Graham Hood: The air it’s flying in.

Senator ROBERTS: And the air is flying is going sideways at 300 Kilometres an hour?

Graham Hood: Right. So if there was no air and I was flying this aeroplane on this heading, track to Melbourne, if there was no wind, then my track and my heading would be the same because there’s no wind that I’ve got [inaudible 00:36:45], but in winds that are strong like that I’d be flying to Melbourne at an angle like that.

Senator ROBERTS: So you’re going sideways.

Graham Hood: I’m laying off into the wind, right? So you can get to the same destination. So I’ve taken off at 6:00, Virgin’s taken off behind me at two minutes past 6:00, the MS that I flew through two minutes ahead of Virgin has been blown, let’s say, a kilometres or two kilometres to the left, I’m heading south. Then Virgin flies through that same air mass and he makes a trail and it’s been blown across. So we’re setting up railway tracks.

Senator ROBERTS: So you’ve got many, many lines?

Graham Hood: Many, many lines. And they’re all look like they’re being flown deliberately. They are being flown deliberately, but the air has moved on carrying the Cirrus cloud that was created as a condensation trail with it.

Senator ROBERTS: So the air over your flight, by the time the Virgin flight comes over, that same air with your trail is over here somewhere?

Graham Hood: That’s right.

Senator ROBERTS: Actually a kilometre or so away, so it’s way [inaudible 00:37:49].

Graham Hood: Yeah. So you see these railway T track lines, but then they say, “What about the checkerboard pattern?” All right, that’s-

Senator ROBERTS: Crisscrosses.

Graham Hood: Crisscrosses. This is going from Sydney to Melbourne in my example. At the same time you’ve got flights coming from New Zealand, from Christchurch, Wellington, Auckland that are flying across to Perth, maybe across to Melbourne or across to Adelaide or to Asia, Africa. They’re all flying across the east coast. They’re over-

Senator ROBERTS: [inaudible 00:38:20].

Graham Hood: They’re leaving a trail as well. And then before you know it, you get these patterns forming in the sky. These patterns from these kinds of aeroplanes , civil airline, Cirrus clouds being produced as a by-product of the thrust of the engine. I have never flown one of these with a chemtrail switch in it. I’ve never seen a tank where chemicals would be put in it. The one thing I will say is that in my 36,000-hour flying career, I burned over 100,00 tonnes of kerosene in the upper atmosphere.

Senator ROBERTS: 100,000 tonnes.

Graham Hood: 100,000 tonnes.

Senator ROBERTS: One pilot.

Graham Hood: Yeah, one pilot. Now, when we are putting that kind of pressure on the upper atmosphere, things are going to change. But is it deliberately being done? How can it be deliberately being done? If you think that chemtrails are killing people and you think it’s being sprayed from aeroplanes like this, then don’t buy an airline ticket to Melbourne. Don’t fly to London.

Senator ROBERTS: Don’t go to Bali.

Graham Hood: Don’t go to Bali because the aeroplane, I will guarantee you that at some part of the flight from Brisbane to Bali, your aircraft that you are on at some stage will pass through a moist air mass and it will leave a condensation trail, which if you were on the ground would call a chem trail.

Senator ROBERTS: So I’ll give people another example. You can stand next to a modern coal-fired power station, which uses scrubbers to take the real pollutants, the sulphur dioxide, the nitrous oxide, the particulates out of the blue gases coming out of the boiler. So you’re left with two gases, carbon dioxide, which is invisible, odourless, colourless, tasteless, you can’t even see it, you can’t even feel it. And the other gas coming out is steam, water vapour. Now, on a normal day you’ll see nothing visible coming out of there, but there’s water vapour and carbon dioxide coming out. On a hot day you won’t see anything because there’s no condensation. But on a cold day you’ll see white stuff coming out of the smokestack because that’s steam. It condenses in the chimney and it’s a little bit above the chimney where that condensation starts. And that then billows.

And then if you want to go further and you want to get that on a cold sunset and you put the sun behind the chimney, all of that steam suddenly turns into dark shadow.

Graham Hood: Shadow.

Senator ROBERTS: And it looks like a highly polluting coal-fired power station. It’s producing virtually no pollution, just carbon dioxide and water vapour, both invisible. But because of the tricks they play, it’s made out to be a pollutant. So what I’m saying is, same with the coal-fired power station, on a cold day you’ll see steam coming out or water vapour coming out. The same power station, just an hour later you’ll see nothing coming out, but there’s plenty coming out. But it’s invisible because of the condensation.

Graham Hood: Exactly right. And let’s look at early in the morning, you’re going to work at six o’clock in the morning in winter, you start your car, you back it out of the garage, you go and close your garage door, you walk around the back of your car and you can see all the steam coming out of the exhaust. What do you see touching the driveway? Water droplets falling out of your exhaust pipe? Condensation.

Senator ROBERTS: And also people somehow think that the atmosphere is smooth. It’s far from smooth, it’s hardly dynamic. I know my son when he was a 15-year-old, I took him up to do a John Derian to the soaring school of gliders. Soarers, they called them. And they had excellent weather forecast there. And they would tell us, I’m going to not exaggerate, but I’m just going to pull these figures out of my head, not from my memory, just out of my imagination. The ground we might be feeling the wind coming from the west, just a few thousand metres up, the air would be coming from the east. Completely opposite, a few thousand metres above that, the air might be coming from the north. A few thousand kilometres above that might be coming from the south.

So you’ve got air going every which way. And all we can see from down here, and so we can just feel the air is coming from the west. That’s it. But it’s coming from every direction. And then in each of those areas, each of those levels, you’ll have a certain pressure, you’ll have a certain temperature, you’ll have a certain moisture content. And so you can see the complexity of the natural air environment. That’s why some planes will be flying in one level and they will produce contrails. Another one on another level won’t produce contrails. Is that plausible?

Graham Hood: That’s exactly right.

Senator ROBERTS: So people say, “The one without the contrails is, see-“

Graham Hood: He is not spraying.

Senator ROBERTS: He’s not spraying. The one with the contrasts, he must be spraying because it’s all one atmosphere, but it’s not.

Graham Hood: You’ve got to imagine too that if those aircraft are at the same altitude, there’s a risk of collision. They’re deliberately kept a couple of thousand feet apart. So the aeroplane higher might be making a contrail and the one lower isn’t in an atmospheric situation to produce a contrail.

Senator ROBERTS: And you mentioned contrails are the jet engine and also the airfoil over the wing increases pressure, pressure, temperature and moisture content determine whether or not a contrail is formed.

Graham Hood: That’s right.

Senator ROBERTS: And I know that having been in Riverfire, seen the jets in Riverfire, what do they call them, Super Hornets?

Graham Hood: Super Hornets, yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: They come tearing up the river and we’re looking down on these planes, these little Hornets from a skyscraper, and they’re suddenly bank to go up over the story bridge. A beautiful site, it’s absolutely stunning. And these pilots just shooting straight upwards. And the moment they start turning, you start seeing contrails, moisture coming off the shoulders of the engines and bits of the wing. And that’s because of the pressure.

Graham Hood: Pressure differential, which is causing compression and therefore squeezing the moisture out of the atmosphere. The vapour turns into water droplets. That’s where you get those clouds forming on top of the wings.

Senator ROBERTS: And then something else you told me, which is common sense, if you’ve got a wind coming this way and you’ve got a mountain range here, the wind has got to go over it and down the other side.

Graham Hood: Yeah. And that pushes up through upper levels. The whole system is constantly moving.

Senator ROBERTS: So that will distort the atmosphere. Pressure, temperature, moisture content. Suddenly contrails will be there, absent, and there again.

Graham Hood: So you’ve got these waves of varying temperature, moisture, content-

Senator ROBERTS: Pressure.

Graham Hood: Pressure. And if an aeroplane is flying through the valleys, it’ll create a condensation trail and then it looks like it’s been turned off. It’s gone through a trough into the rising air mass, there’s not enough moisture or the temperature moisture content isn’t balanced enough to [inaudible 00:45:28] condensation and it looks like it’s being turned on and off, on and off. It’s like about going over rapids. It’s the same that the atmosphere is fluid, Malcolm, it’s constantly rolling. For example-

Senator ROBERTS: Gas is known as a fluid.

Graham Hood: It is a fluid.

Senator ROBERTS: Water is not the only fluid.

Graham Hood: So there’s a weather phenomenon. It’s not really a phenomenon, it’s called an occluded front. An occluded front is when a cold front and a warm front collide, okay? Cold air is more dense or less dense than hotter air.

Senator ROBERTS: Cold air is more dense.

Graham Hood: More dense. It’s heavier.

Senator ROBERTS: Yeah, it’s colder. So you’ve got more air in it.

Graham Hood: It’s more compacted, right?

Senator ROBERTS: That’s right.

Graham Hood: So if you get a cold air mass that’s moving through and it brushes up against the hot air mass, the cold air mass is going to force the hot air mass up like a bulldozer blade. As the hot air mass rises carrying moisture with it, it condenses and you get these long lines of cloud front. You’ve seen photos of it. You can have two air masses side by side, different temperatures and densities and different pressures.

Senator ROBERTS: Same elevation.

Graham Hood: Same altitude, but collide. And the warmer air, which is lighter and less dense, rises, it becomes more dense as it cools. And you get this upper level turbulence and you get these upper level troughs and things like that that they talk about. All these things are different atmospheric conditions. Have you ever laid on your front lawn at home and looked up and watched different layers of cloud? You’ll see one layer of cloud going one way and another layer of cloud going the other way? That’s what it’s like in the upper atmosphere. That’s why when we are moving around from one place to another, we’re looking for areas with the least amount of headwind to give us more fuel efficiency and get us to the destination on time.

And we’re going to vary all over the place depending on where the weather conditions are, it’s also variable. There’s no rhyme or reason to it because it varies. Now, here’s the thing I often hear, and I bet you do, you’ll see chemtrails and three days later you get rain.

Senator ROBERTS: [inaudible 00:47:47].

Graham Hood: Right. So people are assuming that what they call the spraying as brought on the rain, it’s the other way around. What’s happening is that the engines that are passing through the sky creating the condensation are letting you know that there’s a moist air mass coming.

Senator ROBERTS: So they’re going through… So one day there’s no condensation trails, next day there are condensation trails because-

Graham Hood: [inaudible 00:48:15].

Senator ROBERTS: And the moisture doesn’t come in one hit, it builds up gradually.

Graham Hood: All right. So yeah, it’s like a pressure wave. It’s like a bulldozer pushing soil along. If you push the bulldozer through a sand dune, you’d start to see ripples in the sand way, way in front of it that were small. And then that would get bigger and bigger and bigger. So these air masses move through, they’re dense, and they push the air along and they condense it. So the dry air is being forced up against the moisture colder air and the moisture level builds up gradually. So when there’s a level of moisture in the atmosphere that’s going to support rain in the future, you can always tell. Whenever I was going camping or anything, if I was flying the day before and I was seeing a lot of contrails, I could virtually guarantee that I was going to have a wet camping trip.

Senator ROBERTS: There you are. You heard it from the expert weather forecasting.

Graham Hood: Yeah, that’s-

Senator ROBERTS: Hoodie’s weather forecasting.

Graham Hood: So that’s an indicator that moist air is coming.

Senator ROBERTS: So rather than it being contrails that cause rain, it’s moisture causing the contrails?

Graham Hood: Which is warning you that there’s more moist air coming.

Senator ROBERTS: And it will rain. Yeah, okay, so they’ve got cause and effect reversed here?

Graham Hood: Yeah, yeah. And see, I can understand why people get really confused about this and anxious about it. We didn’t get anxious about this sort of stuff decades ago because we trusted government, we trusted everything. Now we’re cynical about everything, nothing makes sense anymore, but we’ve got to make sure that we’re not being distracted and we’ve got to make sure that we can fix the things we can and not get hung up on the things we can’t.

Senator ROBERTS: And the point that you told Christina and myself about the amount of aircraft flight, travel increasing so dramatically and the jet engines becoming so much more efficient, but at the same time much more powerful means there’s a huge increase in the amount of kerosene being burned. And the kerosene contains being a natural compound and varied from oil well to oil well from the raw product just like coal. If you mine coal in one area or you get gas out of one area or you get oil out of one area, the composition of natural elements in that is different because of the way it was formed. And so you’ve got trace elements in kerosene, jet fuel that vary from time to time, but you’d always have not just hydrogen and carbon atoms and the hydrocarbon fuel, which is kerosene, but you’ll also have various other elements in there, including metals.

Graham Hood: Exactly right. Now, one expert in America has given evidence to the congress, he is very much a weather engineering guy. He and Dane Wigington were sharing the same platform, they were the same belief, but he started to smell around in the cheese factory and he wondered why some of the stuff didn’t add up. Jim Lee is his name, and we interviewed him. We’ve interviewed Dane Wigington on [inaudible 00:51:15], we interviewed Jim Lee separately just as well because I don’t think they get on. Jim had an analysis done of kerosene soot.

Senator ROBERTS: So he was doing the scientific approach, getting the data?

Graham Hood: He was getting the data. He had found, and there’s a video link I’ll put in this for you with the interview where he shows graphs and scientific data. He found that there were trace elements of aluminium, barium, and strontium in the soot from burnt kerosene.

Senator ROBERTS: Natural, untouched jet kerosene?

Graham Hood: Yeah. So you can make up your own minds about that. All I’m saying is we’ve got to look at what data we’ve got. And Jim Lee actually presents data that’s scientifically proven and he’s taken it to congress and he’s leading the charge. He wants weather modification ended, he wants it all stopped. But he’s taking a different approach. He’s basing his approach on scientific research, proper scientific research backed up by data.

Senator ROBERTS: Empirical scientific data.

Graham Hood: Empirical scientific data. So it’s well worth comparing Jim Lee to Dane Wigington in their approaches. Both of them are lovely men, they’re both good men. I didn’t agree with Dane Wigington, but I liked the guy. I liked the cut of his jib. But once again, in everything, if somebody’s presenting you with what they say is a fact and you know it’s not a fact, then how can you rely on all the other information they’re presenting to you to be fact? You have to question all of it. And isn’t that what science is, isn’t it? Science is about questioning.

Senator ROBERTS: And debating.

Graham Hood: And debating.

Senator ROBERTS: And looking at many different alternatives. So a true scientist will put forward a hypothesis to explain nature, then he’ll put forward or she will put forward the data to justify their explanation. And a true scientist will then say to another scientist, “Hey, mate, will you tear into this and try to prove me wrong?” A true scientist will celebrate being proven wrong because it means the knowledge mass of humanity has increased and he can then start… Instead of following down that trail, he’ll go into a better trail and maybe actually come up with something that’s accurate. So a true scientist begs people to prove him wrong. And then if it’s not wrong, his point’s made.

Graham Hood: So let me summarise where I think we’re up to now. Let’s do a midway summary in this. Condensation trails are real, they’re more prevalent today than they were when you were kids probably when you saw them. And most of the time you wouldn’t have paid much attention to them. They are changing the weather in the upper atmosphere, but by the sheer nature of the fact that they’re producing bulk amounts of Cirrus cloud, which is a by-product of that’s jet thrust. That’s it purely and simply. I’ve tried to explain that from an atmospheric meteorological point of view. There are elements within burnt kerosene that are concerning and we need that needs to be properly and thoroughly researched. What else? The air is fluid. The temperatures and the variations all over the planet and at all levels of the atmosphere are constantly changing.

Senator ROBERTS: Pressure, temperature-

Graham Hood: Moisture content. Constantly changing. The lines in the sky being parallel like railway tracks is because the air mass that the first contrail was produced in has moved on, the new contrail is laid down, it moves on. The next one is laid down, it moves on. And by the time any of that moisture over Canberra, for example, at 38,000 feet in a condensation trail, by the time it might evaporate and touch the surface, because most of the time by the time that moisture descends to the surface, it would’ve evaporated anyway because it’s so minute. By the time that got anywhere near ground level, it would be well on the other side of New Zealand, Malcolm. So people are saying, “They’re spraying my house.” If you see a trail in the sky 38,000 feet, that sucker’s not going to go anywhere near your house. That’s going to be hundreds of kilometres off the coast, even if it does get to the ground and it’s evaporated and taken back up to become moisture water vapour again to be reused because everything’s cyclical.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s a good summary. This ignorance of science is pervasive. It’s right through the media. Emma Alberici, when I first got into Parliament in 2016, she was their attack dog in the ABC. I think she’s a pretty good bulldog. I don’t always agree with her, I think she’s hardly logically driven, but she’s pretty savvy. She said to me, “You’ve made a point that you want empirical evidence. I’ll give you empirical evidence, mate. We humans produce so many gigatons of carbon dioxide every year.” Hoodie, that is empirical evidence.

Graham Hood: Is it?

Senator ROBERTS: It’s actually not. It’s not because they don’t measure it, they estimate it, they guess it. But let’s just say that she measured it. She didn’t, but let’s just say she measured it. That’s data, but it’s not proof of anything because it’s not within the logical scientific point. It’s not a logical framework that proves cause and effect. So saying there’s X amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, that means nothing. You’ve got to understand what’s causing it. So you’ve got to have the data within a logical framework that proves cause and effect, and you’ve got to have no evidence disproving it. The moment you have evidence disproving it, it’s gone, it’s finished, it’s over. And you’ve just done that.

The other point for people to remember at home is that I take my job very, very seriously, as you did yours, as do now as a public speaker, you’ve got to be honest. There are millions of people who review what I say in Parliament-

Graham Hood: I’m one of them.

Senator ROBERTS: Yeah, and then it should be. And the fact-checkers who try to discredit us and other parties that they don’t agree with are ruthless and dishonest at times. So we’ve got to be scrupulous. My staff sometimes produce speeches that have links in them just so that I can check. I trust them. But we make sure that the fact-checkers have got nothing on us. So I rarely get fact-checked. So these issues need hard data, hard measured data. They need solid proof of someone doing a specific action or causing a specific event and needs to be measured, observed, recorded, and documented. We need to know what, when, where, who, how, and preferably why so we can understand why they did it. You can’t always get the why.

So examples of evidence that meets this standard include flight paths, this is off my website, flight paths, flight registrations or tail numbers, government approvals, other permits or evidence of material being loaded into a plane. This evidence must be temporarily, that means close in time to a claimed weather event that’s supposedly caused a result of it. Yep. Validity, accuracy association are essential. Truth is essential, absolutely essential. Otherwise, we’re no better than the lying governments and politics that spread those toxins into our homes.

So every moment I spend chasing an unfounded issue is a moment not chasing a real issue for a constituent. Ask my wife about my family time as it is. So we love, just as you do, we love our constituents doing their duty and asking us, holding us accountable. But we need people to provide empirical scientific data, logical scientific points, cause and effect data and facts. Now, sometimes they haven’t got the data and we will get it. We’ve tried getting it. We’ve investigated these claims. There’s nothing there in our country. I’m not saying there isn’t in America, but there’s no evidence supporting it in our country at the moment.

So when I have data, I will tackle any issue as people know, I will tackle any issue. So we need constituents doing their duty. The other point I would make is that my office is not government. I’m not government, I’m in Parliament and Parliament holds the government accountable. We’re the watchdogs over the government. Any comments you want to make on that?

Graham Hood: No. Look, once again, I go back to the cynicism we all feel and the recent-

Senator ROBERTS: And that includes me.

Graham Hood: That includes you too because you’re a citizen as well as a senator. We’ve been through an election that’s really rocked our socks and we are starting to feel the pressure of having… I’ll edit that. We’re starting to feel the pressure of having a lot of ignorant politicians doing the job that some of you guys have been doing pretty well prior to the last election. We had a whole bunch of senators in there that were doing a great job flying the flag for us all. And you look at the current batch of politicians and those that were in the majority while in the last term, and you have to doubt their credibility, their capacity to understand or do research,

Senator ROBERTS: Mate, it’s pathetic.

Graham Hood: It’s shocking. And they’re just going along, they’re toeing a party line, aren’t they?

Senator ROBERTS: That’s correct. And pushing an ideology and quite often they don’t know what they’re doing, but the party’s following an agenda from outside the country that’s hurting our national interest. So what they’re doing is that… A lot of things in Parliament can be explained not by malice, but by stupidity, deceit, ignorance, laziness, and gutlessness. There’s a saying why attribute malice when stupidity suffices. I extend that. Why attribute malice or deceit or corruption when stupidity, gutlessness, and laziness suffice.

Graham Hood: Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. Yeah. There’s some other points about the whole chemtrail thing I want to bring up.

Senator ROBERTS: The way you go.

Graham Hood: There are millions of people in the worldwide aviation industry. Now, it’s not just pilots, engineers, and flight attendants, there are ground engineers, refuelers, the people who manufacture the fuel, the people who distribute the fuel. There’s air traffic controllers, there’s airport security, air side security people wandering around all over the place. There’s-

Senator ROBERTS: There wouldn’t be more secure civilian environment.

Graham Hood: That’s right. And you multiply that by every airport around the world. If this is credible and it is going on at the scale at which some people assume it is, we would have whistleblowers lining up all over the place. Why aren’t they? Now, out of all the so-called whistleblowers I’ve seen, there’s only one that has credibility-

Senator ROBERTS: Is that that woman from America?

Graham Hood: A woman from America, we interviewed her on [inaudible 01:02:32], I think we interviewed her twice, she’s amazing. She was working in procurement for the US Air Force and she was procuring these chemicals for distribution at an air base that she was working at in the northern part of North America I believe.

Senator ROBERTS: Defence facility.

Graham Hood: Defence facility. Now, she presented credible evidence that the US Air Force is involved in something like that.

Senator ROBERTS: And I’m not surprised.

Graham Hood: And I’m not surprised either. But she did say that she doubted the commercial airline aircraft are doing it. So the point is this, I would have to say that more than 95% of all high-flying jet aircraft flights in Australia are these fellas, civilian aircraft. 95%.

Senator ROBERTS: Even higher than that, wouldn’t it?

Graham Hood: It would be even higher than that. Now, the Australian military possess very few aircraft, very few. When you go flying in Australian airspace on specific air routes, you know who the guys are in front of you, you know who’s following you because you’re in this aerial ballet, you know, you took off with them from the same airport, you landed, you saw them taxi in behind you or in front of you. If you knocked off all of the aircraft, the commercial airline aircraft out of the equation and you are saying that all those trails up in the sky are being sprayed by nefarious aircraft, either military or contractors employed to do that job, then that is a huge number of aeroplanes . Where are they being refuelled? Where are they landing? Where are they getting their maintenance? And why aren’t we seeing them?

Because every day I went to work, I passed dozens and dozens of aircraft coming towards me at different altitudes and flying across my path. I knew who they were. I spoke to their pilots. Often we’d share information about turbulence and weather. I have never seen anything nefarious at all in my entire aviation career that has me thinking, “Oh, that’s a bit odd.”

Senator ROBERTS: Apart from the COVID injection mandates.

Graham Hood: Apart from the mandates, exactly right, but I’m talking about… I’ve seen A330 KC-30 tankers, Royal Australian Air Force [inaudible 01:05:00] refuelers refuelling Super Hornets. That’s a sight to see. That was over Western Queensland. They were doing manoeuvres. I saw them doing that. But I’ve not seen anything else, Malcolm. You’ll see the-

Senator ROBERTS: How many years and how many hours?

Graham Hood: 36,000 flying hours. 53 years. 32 years a captain flying at high altitude. 6 million passengers over 12 million miles. Hand on heart, and believe me, people should know by now that I’m out there trying to do everything I can to bring common sense to this country and get rid of overarching government. If there’s any corruption, I want it done with, I want us to live in an honest, scientifically-based and proven society where we can trust the information we’re getting and the guidance we’re getting and none of us trust government anymore. I’m looking for information, but I’m sorry, a photo of a chemtrail that somebody says is a chemtrail is not it. And I have to say this with all deference to my so-called colleagues who are podcasters, some of them are making a welter out of this. I don’t mean financially. They’re click baiting, they’re using it for nefarious purposes I believe. I don’t know that they know that they’re doing it for those reasons, whether they’re aware of it, but they’re so fixated on it that it’s become quite nonsensical.

It’s distracting people not only from everyday life, but from the real issues that we need to be on top of to confront. There’s a train coming, Malcolm. We know what’s coming. We know what the globalists are trying to do. We know that we’ve just elected a communist government for probably another three terms because the liberal opposition was so feeble that it will take decades for it to recover probably. We are condemned now to a Marxist socialist government which is spreading around the world. That’s the big issue we’re fighting .the things that we’re arguing over, even COVID, even the COVID mandates and the COVID so-called vaccines. They’re beautiful distraction for what the globalists are trying to do. While we’re all fixated on the background noise, they’re carrying out their agenda like there’s no tomorrow. We’ve got to focus on what we can fix. The serenity prayer says, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. We’ve got to cultivate all those three things.

The amount of time I spend defending my position on condensation trails, having admitted I believe that they’re weather modifying. I believe they are, but just saying, hang on, that’s not what you think it is because I know what you worried about that because I used to make those trails in the sky, which were condensation. My whole thing is about getting people to chill and let’s stay sensible and rational. John [inaudible 01:07:59] with me on that.

Senator ROBERTS: I’m with you on that.

Graham Hood: That’s right. This is what we want to do. So let’s not get carried away. Look, the amount of argument over what the shape of the Earth is, this flat Earth argument. Did Neil Armstrong walk on the moon? Even 9/11. All those things are incredible distractions that take us off the game. To me, I don’t even think that Neil Armstrong didn’t walk on the moon because he was my hero.

Senator ROBERTS: Didn’t an Indian-

Graham Hood: Spacecraft. An Indian spacecraft has photographed the surface of the moon and they found three Apollo landing sites.

Senator ROBERTS: Three Apollo landing sites.

Graham Hood: Yeah, Apollo landing sites. You can see whether the base of the lunar module was left behind when the lunar module left to go back up to the command line.

Senator ROBERTS: [inaudible 01:08:45] reassuring.

Graham Hood: Yeah, but there are people out there that are going to say that was fake. I’m not here to tell you that it was or it wasn’t, all I’m saying is I don’t want to be distracted. I don’t want to be distracted with the mouse in the corner of the room while there’s a gang of thugs breaking into my house in the bedroom.

Senator ROBERTS: And correct me if I’m wrong, but what you’re also saying is that people who are going off on some things without evidence are guilty of distracting us from the real thing.

Graham Hood: Exactly.

Senator ROBERTS: They’re almost, what’s that false opposition, what’s it called?

Graham Hood: The [inaudible 01:09:18] dialectic?

Senator ROBERTS: No.

Graham Hood: Stockholm Syndrome?

Senator ROBERTS: No, no, no, no. They’re saying, “This is the real thing over here” when the real thing is over there, they’re distracting us. They’re sucking away our resources, even if it’s through ignorance, sometimes it’s deliberate, to keep us away from the real agenda, which is global control.

Graham Hood: Global control. That’s the real agenda. And some people will say, “Chemtrails is one of the ways they’re doing it.” Look-

Senator ROBERTS: You’ve got to get the evidence.

Graham Hood: You’ve got to get the evidence and if you car’s blowing smoke all the time and you keep putting additive in the oil, you’re in denial. What you know in your heart that you’re going to have to get a new car or put a new engine in or get the rings and bearings done and the thing. All you’re doing is by living in denial, you don’t even know that you’re lying. Don’t even know I am lying, that’s the terminology for living in denial. We’re all caught up in it. It’s so easy to be distracted, but some podcasters, who have no experience in upper atmosphere work, they don’t understand meteorology or anything, are saying things like, “Oh, look at that [inaudible 01:10:23] up there spraying me. He’s at super high altitude.” And I look at the video and I say, “No, he’s not. He’s at 20,000 feet. He’s not at super high altitude.”

What qualifies that person to say that that airplane’s at super high altitude? Where’s the qualification? How can you tell by looking at a plane?

Senator ROBERTS: You don’t.

Graham Hood: You can’t. And then you’ve got all these things that are not only distracting, what they’re doing is making us all look like a gaggle of fools to people who we need to wake up. We need our country to wake up, but these arguments that we’re having about things nefarious, things like this only detract and make us look stupid in front of the people who are just coming to life now. We’ve got to bring everybody on a journey with us.

Senator ROBERTS: Can I summarise what you just said?

Graham Hood: Yeah.

Senator ROBERTS: What I interpret? What you’re saying is that if we all just chase, follow people who don’t provide the empirical scientific data within logical scientific points, then we’re getting distracted potentially.

Graham Hood: Yeah, we are.

Senator ROBERTS: And then we’re missing the real issue. The other thing I would say is that the number one entity that is guilty of avoiding the use of accurate data is the government. The government, believe me, in Canberra, when people run a small business or a large corporation, they run it based on the data. This may not surprise you, it may surprise you, it certainly horrifies me that the major decisions, major legislation, the major policies that are made in Parliament House in Canberra and particularly by the governments of labour and liberal are not based on data and quite often they contradict the data that’s actually real. They don’t give a damn about it. They do it based upon ideology, based upon emotions, headlines, getting votes, conning people, looking after their vested interests, looking after their mates, their donors. That’s what’s driving this country. So don’t follow them, instead get the data and think about what you’re doing before you send it to us, think about what you’re accusing because you could be distracting and helping these bastards destroy our country. That’s what the responsibility is. Would that be a fair summary?

Graham Hood: That’s exactly right, the way I see it. We’ve all got a responsibility to make sure that we do that.

Senator ROBERTS: I’ll do my bit in Parliament.

Graham Hood: And we’ll do the best we can to get the information out as we see it, but we’re going to make sure it’s credible and logical. And I’ll go back to a Club Grubbery’s mantra is we’ve got to stay on target, we’ve got to stay disciplined, we’ve got to stay rational, and we’ve got to win people across gradually. You don’t go into somebody’s bedroom and throw a bucket of ice water over them and expect them to wake up and join you in conversation, they’re going to be angry. We’ve got to do this carefully, logically, systematically, and in a disciplined way so that people can see that they’re not… The first thing they’re going to think of is that we’re all nut jobs.

Senator ROBERTS: Yes. The people who are watching this who are in the freedom movement, if you want to call it that, who are awake to what’s going on in government, you are small in number. You are very small in total totality of numbers. What we have to do is exactly what Hoodie just said, we have to wake up more people. You’re not going to wake them up by hurting them, by insulting them, you’re going to wake them up by slowly revealing the facts based upon hard data. Got another question for you, you know sometimes… Then we’ll wrap up if you want to wrap up?

Graham Hood: Mm-hmm.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Some people send us evidence of flight paths with very short radius curves down the bottom and up the top. You mentioned something to me about that impossible to do for a large craft.

Graham Hood: Yeah, I was a crop dusting pilot when I was a young fella and… Yeah, I know.

Senator ROBERTS: You’re insane.

Graham Hood: I know.

Senator ROBERTS: But you survived, so you can’t be.

Graham Hood: That’s right. An aeroplane, a big aeroplane that moves at speed requires a fairly large area to turn around in, a turning radius. Because if you tried to turn this thing on a dime, I can tell you, if you tried to turn it on a dime, you’d have to almost roll it over on its back and it would go in like that. So the only-

Senator ROBERTS: It’s impossible.

Graham Hood: It’s impossible. The only kind of aircraft that could do a really tight turn like that is something that’s almost aerobatic. And you’re talking about a light aircraft, a light aircraft that doesn’t have a great deal of momentum, but can do, excuse the language, a split-arse turn and come back down and fly along its trail. That’s what we used to do in crop dusting, used to have to pull up like that, do your turn up high, come back around and fly back along the trail that you left to put an even spray of chemical over the crop, which is another disastrous thing to do. Any aeroplane that is that small to be able to turn in a radius like that is not going to have the carrying capacity to be spraying anything. It does not have the capacity to spray anything that’s going to be measurable.

Senator ROBERTS: It sprays crops, but it’s not going to have the capacity to spray the volume material that would cover a large area.

Graham Hood: No,

Senator ROBERTS: It’s impossible?

Graham Hood: That’s right. And some of those diagrams that I’ve been sent have been doctored. There are mischievous people out there who are playing games like there are photos… This is what I want to talk about, some of the photos. There are photos of pilots sitting in the cockpit of a jet, like a 737. In fact, it was a 737 because I recognised it, and they had patches on their shoulder that said Chemtrail Squadron. They have-

Senator ROBERTS: They were playing games, were they?

Graham Hood: Yes. They had switches on their overhead panel, which were hydraulic switches, but they put little stickers on them and it said chemtrails.

Senator ROBERTS: And they look so doctored. I think I’ve seen photos of them.

Graham Hood: And then they’re wearing a mask. Now, the mask is the oxygen mask that’s alongside the pilot in case there’s a decompression. And they were putting that on, they were fooling. Ask yourself this question, if you were nefariously involved in spreading chem trails, would you have a switch that was marked chemtrail in your cockpit? That’d be like, “Oh look, there’s a switch.” People are having fun with you. People are joking with you about this. And I’ve come back to, I’ve only seen one credible whistleblower that has me concerned about some activities-

Senator ROBERTS: And that’s in America.

Graham Hood: Yeah. Now, some of the photos that have been presented by one very popular broadcaster on geoscience, and there’s two prominent ones. There’s Jim Lee and Dane Wiginton. Dane Wiginton, I’ll use his name, he presents a lot of photos, as I said, of Boeing B-17s over Germany during World War II doing daylight bombing raids. Those aircraft are tiny by comparison. As I said, you couldn’t fit anything in there. When they lost an engine, they were jettisoned guns and ammunition and material overboard to lighten the load together.

He had a group of photographs showing all these trails coming off these bombers. The crews on those bombers hated the trails, the condensation trails because it led the fighters and the flak gunners right to where they were. And if you look at some World War II footage, you’ll also see oncoming German fighters coming at these bombers in hundreds, and you’ll see them all leaving little condensation trails behind them. Wiggington said the B-17s were doing the testing of the spraying back then, and he showed pictures of these B-17s from behind. I found a library photo taken from a tail gunner on a B-17 looking back at the fleet that was leaving the condensation trails and Malcolm, I’ll include that photo here now. It clearly shows that the condensation was coming off the tips of the propellers.

Senator ROBERTS: Oh, that photo you showed us? Yeah.

Graham Hood: And it’s spiralling around the engine as it’s going backwards like a corkscrew. And as it gets off the back of the wing, it’s all mixed together and it comes out looking like one solid trail.

Senator ROBERTS: It looks like solid wide trail.

Graham Hood: Wide trail, but they are minute narrow trails coming off the compression, off the tips of the propellers.

Senator ROBERTS: And one very thin trail coming off the wingtip.

Graham Hood: Off the wingtip.

Senator ROBERTS: Because that’s just where the pressure is.

Graham Hood: That’s right. Now, when I showed that photo to Dane Wiginton, he was clearly agitated. He didn’t like it.

Senator ROBERTS: Disproved him.

Graham Hood: But disproved his theory about the B-17s, clearly it did because there’s no way they’d have a spray nozzle coming out of the tip of a propeller.

Senator ROBERTS: And a wingtip.

Graham Hood: And a wingtip. So those photographs disprove. Other photographs on some of these sites, Angela Merkel and I think Macron or one of the French presidents standing inside an aircraft with all these tanks in it. People are saying there they are, they’re really proud of themselves. They’re getting ready for chemtrails. Let me tell you, I want to explain what that aeroplane is. I have been inside that aeroplane. I did part of my training for new aircraft type in Toulouse in France where they made Airbuses. And we were touring the airport, I sat in a Concorde that they developed over there.

Senator ROBERTS: [inaudible 01:19:47].

Graham Hood: It was great. We walked on board this aircraft because we were being shown the engineering standards used by Airbus to produce a top quality product.

Senator ROBERTS: Because Boeing dominated.

Graham Hood: Boeing dominated.

Senator ROBERTS: And the Airbus from Europe had to take over some of that market if it was going to-

Graham Hood: That’s right. No, and that’s why Boeing is in the midst of this today, Malcolm, because they tried to catch with Airbus and they took too many shortcuts to try and get market share back from Airbus. They took way too many shortcuts. That’s why Boeing is in a real mess. Now, every new model of an aeroplane that comes out, and that one was an A330, a wide-bodied passenger jet with two big engines, every new model that comes out, they produce about six prototype models which they use for testing. They never ever see airline service. They virtually test them to destruction to prove what their capabilities are, to understand their performance characteristics under different circumstances. The photo of Angela Merkel in an aeroplane fuselage with all the rows of tanks where the seats used to be, that’s a test aircraft that was used to go up to test the handling characteristics of that aircraft at high altitude and its performance characteristics with differential weight forward and aft. In the old days-

Senator ROBERTS: So they’d shift the water around to mimic different payload distributions?

Graham Hood: That’s it. In the old days, engineers used to go up on these testbed aircraft and they move sandbags that weighed 77 kilos because that’s the average weight of a human being back then. And when they do testing with certain seats occupied and some empty to test how much fuel the aeroplane burned with that configuration and balance and trim, how it performed at high altitude, whether it could do a 15 degree bank angle turn and not fall out of the sky, whether it met all its performance criteria that it could actually operate on a long-haul flight and get to the other end with the range capability. All this stuff has to be determined by testing up our atmosphere testing-

Senator ROBERTS: To get the data.

Graham Hood: To get the data. Here we get back to the data again. So it was dangerous for engineers to be in the sky 30,000 feet moving sandbags from one place to another because there were a couple of instances where they got it wrong and the aeroplane crashed and everyone was killed. So they developed a way of putting stainless steel tanks, no, aluminium tanks because they were lighter weight in each row where the seats were. And they had a volume of water that mimicked the weight of a person in each tank. And when the engineers had done testing with, say, two thirds of the aeroplane fill a certain way, then they would say, “Right, now let’s trim the aeroplane. So we’ve got most of the passengers sitting towards the back and a few at the front.”

And they transfer the water accordingly.

Senator ROBERTS: Just by pumps on board that the pilot would control?

Graham Hood: Not the pilot, the aeronautical engineers, the test engineers would do that. And then the pilot would fly a certain parameters given to him by the test engineers so they could record the data to give the performance criteria. No chemicals in those tanks, folks, it’s just water.

Senator ROBERTS: And Angela Merkel and Macron and the other Presidents from the European Union would’ve been on there as a publicity shot to say, “See what we’re doing to take the market back from Boeing to put the European planes on the map.”

Graham Hood: Exactly.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s exactly what they’re doing.

Graham Hood: I’ve seen photos of a jumbo jet at about 30,000 feet dropping this massive amount of water out from underneath it. People say, “What’s that?” The jet that was there was a 747, and it was in the old livery that it used to have before when it had its previous life Evergreen. Evergreen was freight operation out of Asia. Those aircraft when they were sold were mothballed, were taken to companies that converted them to firefighting bomber aircraft. When they passed the certification, they were then painted red and white in the colours of the company that operated them. Before they could do that, they had to do certification trials to make sure that the new water dumping data for the firefighting worked correctly and that the aeroplane flew correctly and wasn’t thrown out of trim when it dumped water.

So they’d send this aeroplane up after all the modifications had been done before the paint job, send it up. They’d have a chase plane flying along filming it, and if anything happened, they could review the footage and see what happened if the plane didn’t perform properly and it would do this massive water dump to see how it performed when it had all this weight and then none. That’s what that was about. But no, no, no, some commentators paint a very different picture of that.

Senator ROBERTS: A sinister a picture.

Graham Hood: A sinister picture. So innocent pictures are being misconstrued deliberately to cause fear to get people to panic about stuff that they need not be panicking about. I come back to what I said at the beginning, I believe that weather modification is a thing, but I believe we’re terrified about things that are not what they seem to be to us.

Senator ROBERTS: Yep. Anything more you want to say?

Graham Hood: No.

Senator ROBERTS: I’ll just finish off. I have seven wonderful staff. They’re very dedicated. We cover Parliament, research, government legislation and other legislation. We do Senate estimates research. I’m the best prepared senator there because I’ve got such wonderful staff. We prepare speeches which require a lot of research sometimes. We have to handle a media prepare for that. We handle constituent issues for 5 million constituents across our state of Queensland and sometimes more people outside Queensland. We remain open sincerely on receiving empirical scientific data and logical scientific points on chemtrails and weather modification. We have already researched it in Australia, we’ve investigated the issue and the claims that people send in photos, patents, and legislation.

To maintain my integrity and my effectiveness serving the people of Queensland, Australia, I ask people to please respect my need for solid evidence as proof of cause and effect. And Hoodie and I would both ask people to be careful about what you send because you don’t want to distract you, distract me and my staff, distract the constituents of Queensland and Australia on issues while the real bastards are tearing this country apart. That’s a very serious issue. Integrity is very, very important to me. I know it’s important to Hoodie. You don’t fly planes for 52 years without integrity, especially crop dusters. It’s absolutely vital. And integrity in my business means having accurate facts and data, accurate facts and data. We welcome inquiries, we welcome claims put to us in good faith. Thank you very much for watching and thank you so much for participating, Hoodie.

Graham Hood: It’s been great having you here, Malcolm. Thanks for being here and we’ve had a great weekend. And don’t forget Australia, what you did yesterday got you to today. Believe me, you can call me a Freemason, you can call me a baby killer, whatever you like, it’s not me, it’s not who I am. I care about this country and that means I care about you and believe me, I’m not lying to you about what I know and I can’t pretend. Look, Malcolm, I know I’m extending this a little bit, but I’ve had a lot of people say to me, “If you just admit that that was going on, you’d double your following.” I don’t want a following if I can’t have that following based on truth as I see it. It’s all about integrity and I would quite happily never have a following.

Senator ROBERTS: Same here. People say to me, “If you stop doing this, I’ll vote for you.” That’s not me. If you don’t vote for me and I don’t get back into the Senate because I don’t comply with you, that’s your business. My business is living with me. And I’ll happily live with people like Hoodie who also has his… The main person you have to satisfy I know is you. The main person I have to satisfy is me. I’ve got to look myself in the mirror every day, I’ve got to treat myself with integrity and behave with integrity, everything I do. That’s what I always do. I promised it to the people of Queensland. I’ve been elected three times now and I’ll continue to serve the people of Queensland, Australia, truthfully. And when I don’t know something, I’ll admit it.

Graham Hood: Exactly. And the various podcasters that have asked me for proof of what I’ve been saying and I’ve sent it and they haven’t looked at it. If you do as much research on the counter side of the argument as you do trying to prove a point that’s unprovable, then maybe the world would be a better place. So don’t argue with me unless you’re prepared to look at what I send you. And if you’re not prepared to do that, then you don’t have any credibility in my books because it’s all about integrity.

Senator ROBERTS: So what do you always finish with?

Graham Hood: Stay out of the trees and it’s a great country. If you love it, stand up for it.

Senator ROBERTS: Can I add something to that? Stay out of the weeds.

Graham Hood: Stay out of the weeds. God bless you, guys. It’s been great having Malcolm here for the weekend with Christine. Let’s try and get our country back as best we can with compassion and love. See you?

Senator ROBERTS: Yep.

Graham Hood: See you later. Bye for now.