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The Deportation Failure: 102,000 People Lingering

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I questioned officials from the Department of Home Affairs on the government’s failure to deport over 100,000 individuals who have no legal right to be here.

There are 101,976 individuals who were refused a protection visa and have yet to be deported. Some of these cases date back as far as 1994.

I highlighted a recent case where a South African man was raided and detained at dawn just 24 hours after his visa was cancelled. The government clearly has the capability to enforce our borders and laws. So why, out of over 100,000 people here illegally, did the government only involuntarily deport 5 people in a single month? That’s a 0.005% deportation rate.

When I asked for an honest explanation, Minister Watt did what he always does: he resorted to name-calling and labels to avoid the discussion.

Australians deserve an immigration system that actually enforces the law, not one that picks and chooses when to act while tens of thousands stay here illegally.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: I’d like to change the topic to deportation. According to your ‘Monthly update: onshore protection (subclass 866) visa processing – October 2025’, the total number of individuals that were not granted a final protection visa that have yet to be deported at the end of the period is 101,976. How many of those 101,976 rejected refugees or unlawful noncitizens are currently seeking merits or judicial review from a court or tribunal?

Ms Foster: We could go through that data for you. I’d just note, for the rest of the committee, that we just had a series of questions and that exact data was provided to the committee.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Should I just go through the Hansard? To save time, I’ll go through the Hansard.

CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: Your reporting has a caveat that the 100,000 number includes anyone who has been rejected for a protection visa since 1994. Do you have any data on the distribution in terms of how old some of those applications were? For example, do you have any data on how many people have not been deported after being rejected for a protection visa more than five years ago or more than 10 years ago? How many are still lingering here?

Mr Thomas: We’ll have to take that on notice to get that breakdown for you.

Senator ROBERTS: You haven’t got that data?

Ms Foster: It’s to get the particular breakdown that you’re asking for and so that we can see if we can do it by year—year groups.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Thank you, Ms Foster. It would be appreciated if it’s done by year, because some people seem to be lingering forever. Do you have a breakdown of how many of the hundred thousand are included in the temporary visa stock data? I would assume anyone who is in the country illegally without a visa is not included in the 2.9 million, but I’d like a more specific number—on notice?

Mr Willard: On notice. I’d note that, in that temporary visa figure—that includes bridging visas. Many of these would be on bridging visas, but—

Senator ROBERTS: If you could break that down too, please—

Mr Willard: I’ll have to break it down.

Senator ROBERTS: Break that down. This is my last question, Chair. In November, a South African man whose visa was cancelled after attending a Neo-Nazi rally in Sydney was detained by immigration agents in a predawn operation, according to the media, and faces deportation. That was just one day after the visa cancellation by Minister Burke. I highlight that, as it shows that you obviously have the capability to raid houses, detain people in the dark and get them deported. But you don’t appear to be using it. Out of the more than 100,000 people here illegally, your October report says you involuntarily deported fewer than five that month. That’s a 0.005 per cent deportation rate. Why aren’t you raiding these houses and deporting people who have no legal right to be in Australia?

Senator Watt: I thought you said earlier that you don’t associate with Neo-Nazis, but you seem very concerned about the fact that the government decided to deport one.

Senator ROBERTS: So you’re hiding from a discussion—an honest discussion—by labelling me?

Senator Watt: No, no. I’m happy—

Senator ROBERTS: Minister Watt, you’re making this a habit.

Senator Watt: I’m happy—

Senator ROBERTS: If you haven’t got the data and you haven’t got the logic behind it, just say so, and we’ll get it on notice.

Senator Watt: I’m happy for the officials to answer your question.

Senator ROBERTS: Good.

Senator Watt: I’m just a bit perplexed about why, on the one hand, you say you don’t associate with Neo Nazis but you seem very concerned about a Neo-Nazi being deported.

Senator ROBERTS: Labels are the refuge of the ignorant, the incompetent, the fearful—

Senator Watt: You called them a Neo-Nazi. You just called them a Neo-Nazi.

Senator ROBERTS: Correct. That’s what the media called them. So does that make me a Neo-Nazi because I’m discussing—

Senator Watt: I’m not saying you’re a Neo-Nazi. I’m just questioning—

Senator ROBERTS: But you’re implying it, Senator.

Senator Watt: No, I said earlier that you didn’t seem to be very happy when I said that you associate with Neo-Nazis—

Senator ROBERTS: Because what you said was not correct.

Senator Watt: and other extremists, but here you are, asking about the deportation of a Neo-Nazi.

Senator SCARR: Point of order, Chair.

Senator ROBERTS: Labels are the refuge of the ignorant, the incompetent, the dishonest, the fearful, the stupid and the gutless.

CHAIR: There is a point of order.

Senator Watt: Thank you for that free character assessment, Senator Roberts.

Senator SCARR: Chair, please return us to some order—questions being asked and answers being given.

CHAIR: Thank you for that very helpful direction, Senator Scarr. If we can proceed in an orderly question and-answer fashion, that would be of much help to the committee.

Senator ROBERTS: I’m happy to do that.

Ms Foster: Senator Roberts, we provided some data in response to the previous questioning about the numbers of people who are removed each year. If it would be helpful, we could quickly reprise that data.

Senator ROBERTS: What I’d like, Ms Foster, is to know why one person, regardless of who he or she is, was able to be detained in the middle of the night, their house raided, but the other 102,000 were not.

Senator Watt: What makes you think that no others were treated similarly?

Senator ROBERTS: Well, in the answer to my question, perhaps you could tell me.

Senator SCARR: Point of order, Chair.

Senator ROBERTS: My answer is—

CHAIR: There is a point of order.

Senator Watt: Well, you make—

Senator SCARR: Questions are being asked now by the minister of members of the committee. Again, can I ask that we return to orderly—

Senator Watt: Well, okay. There’s a simple reason for that.

Senator SCARR: Sorry, can I finish my point of order.

Senator ROBERTS: These are simple questions, Minister.

Senator SCARR: Can I finish my point of order.

Senator ROBERTS: They’re very simple.

CHAIR: Senator Scarr, yes, you can finish your point.

Senator SCARR: We’re running out of time. Can I just ask, Chair, that we return to the orderly process of questions coming from the committee members and being answered by the representatives at the table.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Senator Watt: May I make a point of order.

CHAIR: Can I respond.

Senator Watt: Sure.

CHAIR: It’s within the rules for the minister to respond to questions being asked by senators, but I would encourage the minister to answer the question rather than pose one.

Senator Watt: Sure. I’ll frame this not by asking a question. Senator Roberts has just suggested that the government has chosen to deport one person, who participated in a Neo-Nazi rally, and has suggested that the government does not deport—was it 102,000 other people?

Senator ROBERTS: Yes. Why can’t you do the same—

Senator Watt: I’d be interested to know what evidence Senator Roberts has for that suggestion.

Senator ROBERTS: Your answer will be sufficient.

Senator Watt: I’m disputing your suggestion.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay, then give me the data. That’s all I’m after, Minister—the data.

Senator Watt: You’re not very good at listening to data when it’s presented to you, Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for the judgement on my questions. It’s now very, very clear what I’m requesting from you.

Senator Watt: Perhaps the officials could advise you with some facts, if you’re ready for that, about whether the government does deport other individuals rather than one neo-Nazi.

Senator ROBERTS: No, that’s not my question. That’s not my question, Chair. My question is: why don’t you raid other people’s houses and get them out of the country as well?

Senator Watt: This is the point. You’re suggesting that doesn’t occur. Would you like facts?

Senator ROBERTS: Yes, I would—the number of people raided.

CHAIR: In a second, I will invite the officials to respond to your question, Senator Roberts, but I am going to call final question for you, before I need to rotate the call.

Senator ROBERTS: That is my final question.

Ms Sharp: Senator, for the first three months of this financial year, 943 people were involuntarily removed from immigration detention. In many instances, they would have been detained from their home prior to being placed in immigration detention and then removed. In the previous financial year, we had 3,457 involuntary removals from immigration detention.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you very much, Ms Sharp. Can you tell me the number of houses that were raided and people detained, on notice?

Ms Foster: In many cases, in fact, most cases, those people were in the community, and were detained by Border Force officers, and then taken into detention in order to be removed.

Senator ROBERTS: Could you tell me the number, please?

Ms Foster: We can have a look at that.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you very much. I found that easy in the end, thank you.

Senator Watt: I look forward to you using those facts, Senator Roberts.

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Labor’s Migration Reality

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The Labor Government keeps telling you migration is coming down. The data tells a different story.

Right now there are about 2.9 million people here on temporary visas and another 1.8 million on permanent non‑citizen visas — a total of roughly 4.7 million non‑citizens.

That’s 4.7 million people competing for a home, clogging your roads, and filling your GP waiting rooms. Our infrastructure cannot cope with the scale of this influx.

This isn’t ‘sustainable’ — and it’s a disaster for the Australian way of life.

Transcript

CHAIR: Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for attending. I’d like to discuss migrant numbers and stock data. Can I go to the number of temporary visa holders in the country first. The temporary visa holder stock data says that, at 30 September this year—which is the latest data, apparently—there were 2.9 million temporary visa holders in the country, and 2.53 million when excluding tourists and crew. Can you confirm, please, that that’s the largest number of temporary migrants in the country ever recorded in the month of September.

Mr Willard: I will just find those figures. The 2.925 figure you provided is correct. I’m not able to confirm it’s the largest number ever; I’d have to take it on notice and check every other month.

Senator ROBERTS: If you could—thank you. So we have the government saying that migration is coming down but we actually have what we understand to be the highest number of temporary migrants in the country for this season on record. The total number of migrants in the country certainly hasn’t gone down, has it?

Mr Willard: That figure has increased. Just so we’re clear, that’s temporary visa holders, so that includes people like tourists. It also includes, as I think you mentioned, crew visas, and it includes New Zealanders, who are in fact the largest cohort. The visa that New Zealanders have, through the trans-Tasman agreement, is technically a temporary visa.

Senator ROBERTS: But the 2.53 million figure excludes tourists and crew. That’s what you confirmed.

Mr Willard: Yes. I’d have to do the maths, but that looks about right.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s my understanding of what you said. So we’ve got a high number of migrants, and it hasn’t gone down. Now let’s turn to permanent visas. At the last hearing, the department confirmed there were 1.8 million people in the country on permanent visas. Do you have an update on that figure, or is that still the same?

Mr Willard: I do have that figure. I think it is about the same, but I can’t give you the precise number. I might
have to take it on notice.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. So, adding the 2.9 million temporary to the 1.8 million permanent, there are now
4.7 million visa holders in the country who are not Australian citizens, correct?

Mr Willard: That’s correct.

Senator ROBERTS: Is that a record for the number of visa holders in the country?

Mr Willard: Again, I’ll have to take that on notice to check the records.

Senator ROBERTS: My understanding is that it is, but I’ll wait for it to be confirmed by you. Can you give a breakdown, please, of the categories of permanent visas and their numbers, as per your latest data.

Mr Willard: Bear with me, Senator.

Senator ROBERTS: That’s okay. No need to rush. We just want it accurate.

Mr Willard: You asked for permanent visa holders?

Senator ROBERTS: Yes—categories of permanent visa holders.

Mr Willard: I’ll run through the figures here. The largest category is the resident return visa. I think last time we were at estimates we spoke about this visa. This is a visa that permanent residents can get once they’re at the initial travel period on their first permanent visa.

Senator ROBERTS: So they can return to the country.

Mr Willard: It’s called resident return, but essentially it’s a permanent resident renewing their travel rights on their visa. That’s 855,000. These figures are to 30 September 2025. There’s the partner permanent visa, which is 205,000. There’s the skilled migration visa, which is 447,000. There are parent visas, which are 38,000. Then there’s a range of other visas—child, other family, other permanent, and special eligibility, which are all smaller amounts, but there’s a range of other visas there as well.

Senator ROBERTS: Why don’t you publish the number of permanent visas on issue like you do with the
temporary visa stock?

Mr Willard: We publish the Migration Program numbers every year, in terms of the Migration Program
outcome.

Senator ROBERTS: Is that including the permanents?

Mr Willard: It includes all the visas issued in the context of the Migration Program for that particular year.

Senator ROBERTS: But not the total number of permanents?

Mr Willard: It doesn’t include the total number. We do publish a paper called ‘The Administration of the immigration and citizenship programs’, which has a lot of data. I’d have to come back to you as to whether it has that specific number in it.

Senator ROBERTS: Could you tell me why you don’t publish the number of permanent visas on issue, like
you do with the temporary visa.

Mr Willard: Sure. I can take that on notice.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you.

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The Uni-Party’s Immigration Mess

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The Home Affairs Legislation Amendment (2025 Measures No. 1) Bill is yet another bill to fix yet another Labor-Liberal ‘uniparty’ immigration failure. It aims to fix the fallout from the High Court’s NZYQ decision, which enabled the release of serious criminal non-citizens into the community – murderers, armed robbers, paedophiles and even a contract killer.

This bill authorises deportation to Nauru—at a staggering cost of around $1M per person – and removes legal protections like natural justice for those being deported.

Tens of thousands of Australians marched nationwide to demand safer borders and an end to mass immigration. These protests weren’t about race or religion – they were about numbers, infrastructure strain and public safety. We want people who contribute to Australia’s society and economy, who assimilate into our way of life and help build national unity—not those that wish to divide the country.

Government’s job is simple: protect life, property, and freedom. Stop interfering—just keep Australians safe and free.

This march was just the beginning. It’s time to reclaim Australia.

Transcript

Here’s yet another bill to fix yet another Labor-Liberal ‘uniparty’ immigration failure. Australian lives are endangered as a result. This is one reason, just one of many, why people marched, in their tens of thousands—across Australia, from north to west to south—on Sunday. And then we have the Labor-Greens communist coalition smearing and denigrating everyday Australians for doing so. 

The Home Affairs Legislation Amendment (2025 Measures No. 1) Bill 2025 has come about as a result of the poor planning and forethought by the Labor government, and, previously to that, by the coalition when in government, allowing unregulated, unsuitable, dangerous immigrants into Australia without adequate screening as to suitability to enter Australia—murderers, armed robbers, paedophiles and a contract killer. 

The current visa process, which has seen mass immigration into Australia of excessive, unsuitable migrants, is a clear policy failure by the Albanese Labor government. People have failed to be accepted as genuine refugees and been denied protection visas after multiple assessments, and the government has found that there are difficulties in deporting those people. We told them that. The coalition told them that. Many of these criminals have re-offended in the community—again, murderers, armed robbers, paedophiles and a contract killer. 

Around 280 people—the criminals released as a result of the High Court decision in NZYQ—will be deported under these provisions at a rough cost of $1 million per head. That’s how much we’re supposed to be paying to Nauru. The Australian government has entered into a 30-year contract with the government of Nauru to accept deportees from Australia who are not allowed to remain in Australia. How about we don’t bring in these people in the first place and focus on prevention and protection of our country? It’s been speculated that about 1,000 people may be deported to Nauru over 30 years at a cost to Australia in excess of $1 billion. How about we don’t let in these people in the first place? 

This bill is intended to fix this incredibly expensive mistake by the uni-party, which failed the Australian people by allowing criminals, rapists, murders and paedophiles to enter this country. They failed to properly check the criminal histories and cultural suitability of would-be immigrants to Australia. That’s what the people were on the streets about last Sunday, across Australia. 

Australians are entitled to be safe from the activities of those who are criminals, the scum of society, who wish to bring their ideas of hate and acceptance of violence into our mostly safe Australian society. The Greens, whose behaviour and beliefs fall well short of acceptable standards, would welcome these poisonous people into our country. Australians want these criminal non-citizens gone. We demand that all immigrants have in-depth checks done as to their history and suitability to enter Australia. The existing processing system has failed us repeatedly. We have not been kept safe. We’ve been exposed to violent criminals. 

What has the Albanese government done to date? It has lied to us about the number of unfiltered migrants entering Australia, with mass immigration continuing to occur. Last year’s estimates of net immigration were, in reality, exceeded by around 200,000 people. So the forecasted numbers were not only extraordinarily high; they were exceeded by 200,000. In previous years, the excess was 280,000. We have had more than half a million people coming into this country in net migration in years. What has Mr Albanese done? He promised that the next year they would be cut. They were increased. Then he promised again that they would be cut. They were increased. 

The existence of this deportation option now means that, at last, there’s a real prospect of the removal from Australia of those released criminals, and it may allow the government to rearrest and detain those people released into the community after the decision in NZYQ. All this hinges on the contract with Nauru and the passing of legislation contained in this bill. It’s not enough, but it is welcome. I support this bill, which will go further in protecting innocent Australians from the failed immigration policies of the Albanese government and, historically, the coalition. 

I want to go back to the protests to give people a voice in Australia. People are uneasy across Australia with mass immigration—not with migrants, but with mass immigration. The protests are not about religion, skin colour or past nationality. They’re about mass immigration. It’s about the numbers swamping our country, housing and homelessness. There’s record homelessness in my state of Queensland, from Cairns in the north to Coolangatta in the south. In every major provincial city in between there is record homelessness. It’s about swamping the infrastructure, traffic and services like education and hospitals. It’s also about mass immigration because mass immigration doesn’t adequately filter people. So it’s about the quality of people. 

We want people who contribute to our society and our economy, who are productive from the moment their feet hit the shores of this country, not sending PBS drugs home or signing up for welfare. Most importantly of all, for the spirit of the country, the culture of the country, the cohesion of the country and the unity across the country, we want them to assimilate into Australia, not to change Australia but to be changed by Australia. We want people to fit into the country. That’s why we’ve got to stop this multicultural rubbish. Multiculturalism prevents assimilation. It ensures the past culture they’ve come from continues, and then we have a fractured country. I talked yesterday about this. 

Government has three roles. That’s it. They are to protect life, protect property, protect freedom. Stay the hell out of people’s lives but give them a secure environment in which to live and a free environment. We need to restore Australia. Last Sunday was the first step in that. To people across the country, thank you so much for standing up. Thank you so much for reclaiming Australia. We want more. The Australian people need more. 

Debate interrupted. 

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Australia’s Living Standards Decline

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Throughout my entire time in the Senate, I’ve consistently spoken on the need to restore Australia’s productive capacity through the construction of new infrastructure.

It’s a simple metric: the living standard of each Australian is expressed as our gross domestic product divided by the population. With 5 million new Australians in the last 10 years – 2.5 million under this Labor government – our gross domestic product is being split into more slices for the new arrivals faster than it is growing.

As a result, the standard of living for individual Australians is going backwards and has fallen by 8% since Labor took over. Did anyone hear Prime Minister Albanese promise in his 2022 election campaign to reduce the living standards of everyday Australians by 8%?  I didn’t.

The answer to falling living standards is to reduce immigration.

The Government must also embrace the other side of the equation, which is building new infrastructure to enhance our productive capacity.

This video explains One Nation’s ‘build baby build’ policy, which we are taking to this election.

Transcript

I thank Senator Rennick for this opportunity to speak about One Nation’s policies and note that, in March, his statements and policies are becoming increasingly loaded with One Nation policies that we released earlier the month before, in February. In that, it’s like Labor and the LNP too, who are copying elements of our policies. 

For the entire time I’ve been in this Senate, I’ve spoken on the need to restore Australia’s productive capacity through the construction of new infrastructure. It’s a simple metric: the living standard of each Australian is expressed as our gross domestic product divided by population. With five million new Australians in the last 10 years, 2½ million of those under this Labor government, our gross domestic product is being split into new slices for the new arrivals faster than it’s growing. As a result, the standard of living of individual Australians is going backwards and has fallen by eight per cent since Labor took over. Did anyone hear Prime Minister Albanese promise in his 2022 election pitch to reduce the living standards of everyday Australians by eight per cent? I didn’t. The answer is clearly and certainly to reduce immigration, although the government must embrace the other side of that equation as well, which is building new infrastructure to grow our productive capacity. 

One Nation are taking a platform to this election that includes building a national rail loop to take hundreds of thousands of truck movements off the roads, making freight handling cheaper and more efficient, reducing supermarket prices and making Australia more competitive. That’s vital in a large country with a small population; logistics is tops. Our platform also includes a new northern rail crossing from Port Hedland to Moranbah and the Port of Gladstone in Queensland to open the east Pilbara and the north-west minerals province in Queensland to the international market, facilitating exports worth hundreds of billions of dollars and tens or hundreds of thousands of breadwinner jobs. There’s also a multifunction corridor to take water, power and internet along the new northern crossing railway to bring town services to more than 100 remote communities across the Top End; Hells Gates Dam in Far North Queensland to provide flood mitigation, water security and hydropower; and the Urannah water project and pipeline, amongst others. What will be the source of these funds? There will be $90 billion from cutting waste and duplication, itemised. See our website; it’s fully costed. 

Each year, we will put $40 billion of that back into people’s pockets. For example, couples with children income-splitting will save almost $10,000 a year. It’s fully costed. Each year, we will invest $20 billion in infrastructure to increase productive capacity to increase our children’s wages. Each year, we will pay down record debt of $30 billion, which is estimated to become $50 billion the year after next per year, to reduce interest. Only through building our productive capacity can we hope to provide for the millions of new arrivals, generate new government revenue from increased economic activity and restore wealth and opportunity to all who call this beautiful country home. 

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Immigration Appeals: The New Administrative Review Tribunal

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We had hoped that the new Administrative Review Tribunal (ART) would be a significant improvement over the old Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT), which was overwhelmed with thousands of immigration appeals, often being assessed by Members who were friends of the Labor government. 

The new ART was supposed to be made up of Members based on merit, which would be a significant improvement—provided the new appointments are not again filled with Labor mates.

I proposed the creation of a new Refugee and Immigration Review Tribunal to handle only Migration disputes. This would alleviate the heavy caseload that is delaying decisions in the new ART and help expedite the overall review process.

Transcript

Thank you, Deputy President. We hoped that the new Administrative Review Tribunal would be a significant improvement over its predecessor, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. The old Administrative Appeals Tribunal was a failure. It was top-heavy with Labor lawyers, making it a Labor lawyer fest with appointments made based on a reward system for leftist-aligned lawyers, and there are plenty of them—lawyers doing the bidding of their Labor masters, pushing poor Labor policies, and enshrining woke and harmful leftist ideals. 

The Liberals and Nationals stacked appointments to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, favouring lawyers sympathetic to the LNP. So much for justice under the uniparty! This stacking was a recipe for disaster and a significant reason why Labor’s jumbled and catastrophic immigration policy continues to fail Australians and continues to hurt Australians catastrophically. Look at the number of people who are homeless and who are sleeping under bridges, in caravans, in their cars and in tents. If a noncitizen’s visa has expired or has been breached, to slow down the deportation process, the decision to deport could be delayed through an appeal to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. That is a fact, and it was done many times, ensuring that there was a high chance that bleeding-heart Lefties would delay or overturn the decision. Few Australians know that there are currently more than 75,000 illegals in Australia right now. More than 75,000 foreigners are living here in Australia on cancelled or expired visas, taking up homes that could be used by those people who are currently homeless. The whereabouts of these illegals is unknown, and the government doesn’t care, with limited resources to locate these illegals for deportation. 

It’s welcome that the current membership of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal will be declared vacant and that vacancies will be filled on a merit based system. My concerns are that the Administrative Review Tribunal membership will still be loaded with Labor government favourites and that the workload will still create long waiting periods before appropriate reconsideration of major decisions. It would be better to remove the review process for immigration decisions from the Administrative Review Tribunal and consider the reintroduction of a refugee or immigration review tribunal, to ensure that the Administrative Review Tribunal does not become bogged down with migration appeals, as it is currently. Instead of a delay mechanism for illegals to exploit, abuse and avoid at Australians’ expense, we need to deport illegals. We need to deport more than 75,000 lawbreakers and free up housing for Australians—working families who are currently sleeping in their cars, in tents or under bridges. Australian families deserve roofs over their heads and beds for their children.

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Labor’s Failure to Deport Dangerous Non-Citizens

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At the recent Senate Estimates, I asked Senator Watt why Labor is not deporting unsuitable and dangerous non-citizens from Australia. He explained that those who had been in detention could not be deported, citing two distinct groups affected. The first group consisted of approximately 150 detainees released into the community following a recent High Court decision, 29 of which have re-offended since release and include individuals convicted of serious crimes like murder, rape, and child sexual offences.

The second group comprises individuals whose visa cancellations were overturned by the AAT due to issues surrounding the Giles Directive 99 scandal. Despite subsequent visa cancellations for some in this group, there have been no deportations from either cohort since the mishandling by Labor.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing again today. My questions are concise and straightforward, and I hope the answers will be similar. In the context of the mass release from immigration detention of
approximately 150 noncitizens awaiting deportation, how many of these detainees were in fact released as a result of the decision in NZYQ?

Mr M Thomas: All of the releases from detention that we’re talking about with NZYQ were as a result of the new High Court test set in that case around the real prospect of removal from Australia in the reasonably
foreseeable future.

Senator ROBERTS: Is it true that 37 of these men released into the community have a history of sexually offending, including against children?

Mr M Thomas: As of 30 April 2024, 39 of those individuals did have a previous conviction for sexually based offending.

Senator ROBERTS: Is it true that seven of these men were convicted of either murder or attempted murder?

Mr M Thomas: That’s correct.

Senator ROBERTS: Is it true that 72 of these men had convictions for assault or violent offending, armed robbery or kidnapping?

Mr M Thomas: As of 30 April that number is 73.

Senator ROBERTS: How many of these released detainees have now illegally reoffended?

Mr M Thomas: I believe the deputy commissioner answered that question earlier today.

Senator ROBERTS: What’s the number?

Ms Holben: 29.

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. What offences have been included in the range of charges, including the senior citizen brutally bashed and allegations of a sexual predator being active here?

Mr Outram: We did provide that evidence before the lunch break.

Senator Watt: We went through that in some detail before the lunch break.

Senator ROBERTS: You are aware of Mr Emmanuel Saki, a Sudanese man who was recently released from immigration detention. He has just been charged with the murder of another man here on 12 May this year. That was two weeks ago. Are you aware of that?

Ms Foster: Yes.

Senator ROBERTS: What’s now being done to deport these men?

Senator Watt: You’re mixing together a couple of different categories of people here.

Senator ROBERTS: We don’t want them here.

Senator Watt: I’d point out to start with that, for all 153, I think it is, people who were released from detention as a result of the High Court decision, the government actually had those people in detention for a
reason. We don’t want them roaming the streets either, but the High Court has made a decision and we are bound by the law.

Senator ROBERTS: Can you deport these men?

Senator Watt: For starters, as we have gone through before, there are a range of protections in place for the Australian community surrounding these people, such as electronic bracelets, curfews and a range of other
requirements that no government has ever imposed on a cohort released from detention. Obviously, in relation to the NZYQ cohort, the government is in the process of applying for preventative detention orders, which would effectively see those people returned to detention. Before the lunch break, there were some questions about where that was up to. That’s the NZYQ cohort.

Senator ROBERTS: But there has been nothing done to deport them?

Senator Watt: No. I would say that one of the reasons is that the reason for the High Court decision is that the High Court found that there was no reasonable prospect of those people being deported, because, for example, they were stateless. They don’t have citizenship in any country. It is not legally possible to deport them. Again, I’m paraphrasing. Officials can jump in if I explain some of this incorrectly. That’s the reason why those people haven’t been deported. That’s the reason why they are now not in detention but subject to all those other protections.

Senator ROBERTS: All of the 150-odd are stateless?

Senator Watt: I don’t think all of them are, but there were other reasons that it’s not possible to deport them. The officials might be able to explain it to you.

Mr M Thomas: It might be because we have protection obligations for them. It could be because they’re stateless. It might be because there are issues with identifying their identity or their country of origin. All of that
culminates in there being no real prospect of their removal from Australia in the foreseeable future.

Senator Watt: Senator Roberts, you asked about the Saki case. That is a separate situation. As far as I’m aware, Mr Saki is not one of the NZYQ cohort. He was someone who had come to Australia and was given a visa
at some point along the line. The government cancelled his visa because of character issues or criminal offences—whatever the reasons were. He appealed that decision to the AAT. The AAT overturned the decision to
cancel his visa. He was therefore—

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, is that because of any influence of Minister Giles’s directive 99?

Senator Watt: We’ve spent the best part of two days discussing this. What I have been saying is that the direction that Minister Giles gave did ask government decision-makers and the AAT to take into account the
length of time someone had been here in Australia—

Senator ROBERTS: And their ties.

Senator Watt: but not at the expense of the seriousness of their offending. But the AAT has done what it has done, and for that case and other cases they have overturned the government’s decision to cancel those visas,
despite the fact the government, in the AAT, argued for the cancellation of those visas. Now Mr Saki’s visa has been cancelled by the minister, and he is seeking urgent advice from the department about the range of other cases that have come to light in the last couple of days.

Chair: I don’t want to be too hardline about this, because I know that there are different sections of the department that deal with both of these issues, but, Senator Roberts, just for your information, we have moved on
to outcome 3. I know that there might be some crossover and that the department will seek to answer your questions when they can. We did have extensive questioning about outcome 2 from yesterday onwards. We’re now in outcome 3. If that needs to be clarified at the table for senators, then, if you can, assist Ms Foster when questions arise. I know dealing with the different cohorts is difficult, but we’ll do our best to try to keep on track in that way. Senator Roberts, have you got a question?

Senator ROBERTS: Was the Migration Amendment (Removal and Other Measures) Bill 2024 simply to ensure incarceration as an alternative to being detained for these men?

Senator Watt: Again, I might begin the answer and let officials explain further. The removals legislation, which the government has introduced and which has not yet been passed by the Senate and which the opposition has not agreed to pass yet, is for a different purpose. It was to deal with a different gap in our legal system. So maybe officials could pick up at that point with some more detail.

Ms Foster: There were two primary purposes to the removals bill. The first was to give us the power to compel people who had exhausted all legal avenues of remaining in Australia to cooperate with their removal so
that people couldn’t frustrate our efforts to remove them—by, for example, refusing to fill out applications or come to interviews—and to make it an offence should they not do that. The second element of the bill was to allow us to declare countries who frustrated our attempts to return their nationals to them countries of removal concern and to enable us to take actions about how we manage applications to come to Australia from those countries.

Senator ROBERTS: Surely, Minister, there was a way that the government could’ve addressed this issue before the decision in NZYQ was handed down. Why didn’t you?

Senator Watt: The High Court’s decision in NZYQ essentially went in a different direction to what the law in Australia had always been.

Senator ROBERTS: So you didn’t pre-empt that at all.

Senator Watt: Look, we’ve gone over this at length in previous estimates hearings.

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Let’s move on to border security then. Why is our border security policy being made on the run? For example, why has the number of surveillance flights by Border Force of our northern
borders by aircraft been reduced over the last year?

Senator Watt: Can I just say one thing. Of course, I don’t accept the proposition that our border security policy is being made on the run. We have increased funding for Border Force and border security to a level that
no government has ever provided, and Admiral Sonter, in his role heading up Operation Sovereign Borders, has pointed out that—I can’t remember the exact words—essentially, there has been no change to the policy settings for Operation Sovereign Borders. But the officials can talk to you about surveillance flights.

Mr Outram: Specific to surveillance flights, I have Deputy Commissioner Dale with me. There has been a reduction in hours flown. That has been for two reasons. The first is persistent mechanical issues with the fleet of Dash 8s that the Border Force has. The second, with the contractor that we employ, is their ability to bring on pilots. There’s a global shortage of pilots, and they’re affected by that. I might hand over to Deputy Commissioner Dale to give you more details.

Ms Dale: The commissioner has flagged that there has been a reduction in flying hours this year and the commissioner has already outlined the causes. I think the rear admiral will go to the point that, notwithstanding
the reduction in hours that we have had in the Australian Border Force, aerial surveillance has been maintained to the standard he requires—fortunately, through the augmentation of flights through the Australian Defence Force.

Senator ROBERTS: Is that signalling a decrease in hours flown in the future, then, if it meets the standard? Or is it going to be that, in the future, standards are changed?

Ms Dale: No. We’re working very closely with the provider to better understand the barriers. The commissioner has spoken to the issue around crew. There is a global shortage of crew for the fixed-wing aircraft
that we’re operating. It’s also true that from time to time we have mechanical issues that are reasonably frequent with any sort of piece of machinery, so they can sometimes be a factor.

Senator ROBERTS: Is the reduction in hours flown a reason for the recent increase in the number of successful arrivals into Australian waters of foreign people smugglers and their human cargo?

Rear Adm. Sonter: There’s no direct correlation there. On a regular basis, I look at what is the threat and risk, and I adjust the posture accordingly. As Kaylene Dale indicated, one of the beauties about this role and the
coordination role is that I have both ABF and Australian Defence Force assets to pull on for this mission. While she’s articulated the decrease from the ABF funded actual air surveillance, we’ve increased the ADF air
surveillance to ensure that we have an enhanced posture in the north-west.

Senator ROBERTS: Minister, is it the soft policy of Labor Party governments in the past, enticing people smugglers to be prepared to risk the boat and cargo for such rich profits as a full boat of paying passengers for the Aussie Express?

Senator Watt: No. Never has been and never will be.

Senator ROBERTS: Are you aware, Minister, that Australians now feel unsafe personally in their own country due to this failed migration policy? We’ve got boats arriving, we’ve got people who are murdering people.

Senator Watt: I’m sure there are some people in Australia who feel unsafe. What I can say is that this government is spending more money on border security than we’ve ever done before. Unlike certain others, including people in the room, we are not running down and disparaging our border security policies—which is an incentive to people smugglers—and we are taking action to deal with court decisions that are not of the
government’s making and that the government opposed.

Senator ROBERTS: Isn’t quoting of spending more money just a lazy way of saying you’re trying to do something? I look at your energy policy and never before have we spent so much money and we see the highest
price of electricity.

Chair: Senator Roberts, that is not relevant to this instance.

Senator ROBERTS: My point is that money does not equate to success.

Senator Watt: You might say that spending $569.4 million more in this year’s budget on things like more boats, planes and unmanned vehicles for Operation Sovereign Borders is lazy. I wouldn’t put it that way.

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How Do You Fit Big Australia Into Small Housing and Infrastructure?

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I asked the Treasury Department how they got immigration forecasts for the year so horribly wrong when they were already a third of the way through the year? In October 2022, the Government estimated total net overseas migration for the year July 2022 to June 2023 to be 235,000. The actual arrivals for 2022-23 ended up at 518,000. It’s hard to understand how Treasury was this wrong about those 12 months when they were already 4 months through them.

This is just more proof the government’s immigration program is totally out of control. Minister Gallagher is wrong when she claims this flood immigration is a benefit to Australia. Right now immigration is choking our country, making the housing problem, the cost of living crisis, energy shortages, the crisis in healthcare and other essential services even worse.

Only One Nation will make sure Australians get a roof over their heads first.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you to the officials for being here today. The 2022-23 budget, delivered in October 2022, predicted that net overseas migration would be 235,000 people for the financial year 2022-23. Can I ask whether the Treasury’s definition of net overseas migration differs from the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ definition of overseas migration? 

Ms Reinhardt: Sorry; can you just— 

Senator ROBERTS: Do you have the same definition of net— 

Ms Reinhardt: Yes, we do. 

Senator ROBERTS: I want to go to your department’s immigration forecasts. I notice that in the October 2022 budget papers, four months into that financial year, you were predicting net overseas migration at 235,000 people for the year. Instead, the Australian Bureau of Statistics says Australia had 737,000 migrant arrivals, for a net overseas migration of 518,000—well over double what you said. 

Ms Reinhardt: In the budget, we had a figure for net overseas migration of 400,000. The MYEFO had 510,000, and I recognise that that is a significant miss. I would, however, flag a couple of things around that. The first is that the UK in the period between March and November last year had to double their NOM forecast, and New Zealand had a similar adjustment. There has been a significant uptick in student arrivals post-COVID in most countries—Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand. There was, I guess, a catch-up that was much faster than any of those countries predicted. We are still below where we would otherwise have been had COVID not occurred. But I think you’re right in saying those forecasts could have been better, if that’s the point you’re making. I would say we are in company. I don’t say it’s good company, but we are in company, and that is something we do need to look at. The other point I’d make is that there have been some really significant changes that have been introduced in the last six months. They’re around closing off the pandemic event visa; introducing really significant integrity changes around student visas; looking at ways of targeting better temporary skilled migration; and indexing theTSMIT, the temporary skilled migration income threshold. We would expect those changes to have quite a substantial impact on arrivals and the NOM numbers. 

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. I’ll stay with you, Ms Reinhardt. I think you talked about catching up on the pre-COVID-era statistics. My understanding is that we had 1.9 million people on visas before the COVID, and by October 2023 we had 2.3 million—we’d already caught up, well and truly, at the start of that year. I can’t tell you which group of visas— 

Ms Reinhardt: We haven’t fully caught up, but, in terms of visa numbers, I’ll see if my colleague— 

Senator ROBERTS: No, we’ve more than caught up in categories of working visas. 

Ms Horvat: No. 

Ms Reinhardt: No, not in terms of the stock of— 

Senator ROBERTS: In working visas? 

Ms Horvat: We look at net overseas migration in total— 

Senator ROBERTS: I’ve shifted to working visas. 

Ms Horvat: but Ms Reinhardt’s statement is correct, as we have not caught up to pre-COVID for total net overseas migration. 

Senator Gallagher: But Treasury don’t look at what particular visa type you’re on; that would be a matter for Home Affairs. 

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for pointing that out. Nonetheless, this huge increase in people has a huge impact on the people who are already here. What happens to the prices of houses, rentals, accommodation generally, energy, groceries—cost of living? There’s a huge impact on all of those things when we have so many people flooding into the country. 

Ms Reinhardt: I’m really not best placed to answer the broader inflation questions, but I would say that net overseas migration has really significant positive impacts for Australia. That’s been shown in the analysis year after year. We have maintained a very low unemployment rate in Australia whilst having pretty long-term migration to Australia for several hundred years, and that’s been a really important factor to our economic success. It has also, in recent times, not resulted in any substantial uptick in unemployment, and at the same time we’ve seen really high participation rates for Australians. So I would push back on the idea that that is an absolute negative for Australians, as it’s delivered substantial economic benefit to Australians. 

Senator ROBERTS: It would be, potentially, if it were done in a carefully calculated way and with infrastructure spending to match, but we haven’t build a dam in how many decades for water supply? 

Senator Gallagher: We’re moving into a different area. 

Senator ROBERTS: That’s right. I’m directing my question to you, Minister. This has a huge impact on people’s livelihoods. 

Senator Gallagher: The evidence that you’ve been given is that migration to this country has supported economic growth across the country for many years. We agree that we needed to tighten up some of the arrangements that we’re seeing, particularly around international students and some of the loopholes that were being used—some of the behavioural responses post COVID—and that work is being done. Because of those reforms, there will be 180,000 fewer people over the forward estimates than there would’ve been if we had left the situation unattended to, but there’s a huge amount of work. 

Senator ROBERTS: That’s still a large number. 

Senator Gallagher: It comes down to, I think, 250,000 in the final year of the forward estimates. The work that the Minister for Home Affairs is doing in the migration space has been complex. She inherited a lot of issues in that department—that’s probably putting it politely—and we’re working through them bit by bit. But those reforms are in place. The issues that you raise around infrastructure are real. I don’t think you can blame all of those, again, on overseas migration to this country. Infrastructure requires long-term planning. It involves investments from states and territories. Some of the pressures we’re seeing in housing supply haven’t happened overnight or in the last two years. It’s been a build-up over a much longer period of time, when we weren’t experiencing those high levels of overseas migration that we’ve seen in the last two years. It’s more complex than that. But, yes, we have to work on housing supply; we have to ensure that we’re building infrastructure that’s right for people in cities, towns and regions across Australia; we’ve got to fix the migration system; and we’ve got to make sure that it works for everybody.  

Senator ROBERTS: That’s my point, Minister: just adding more people without doing all the other creates a problem. Sure, it increases economic growth, which looks good in a book or on a whiteboard— 

Senator Gallagher: It supports jobs and incomes in this country, so it is interlinked. What I’m saying is, we will always want to have a migration program. We want to attract people to this country. We want them to live here and come from any country around the world. There are good social and economic reasons to have an approach like that, but, at the same time, you have to be looking after your back garden as well. You have to be making sure the infrastructure is there and that you’re building the housing, and we’re doing all of those things. 

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you, Chair. 

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Labor is Asleep at the Wheel When it Comes to Illegal Immigration

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I questioned Home Affairs about the detainees released into the community. As many as 149 detainees have been released and none have been returned to immigration detention. Home Affairs is unaware if any have been arrested for crimes in the states and territories. 113 are being electronically monitored.

A list of 26 visa conditions have been imposed on these people to maximise the safety of the community, such as curfews and notification of changes to addresses. None have a history of terrorism. There are a number of prosecutions already underway regarding the release of these detainees, brought about as a result of the high court decision.

The government has made zero effort to lock any of the detainees back up, despite rushing through emergency legislation last year. 24 detainees have committed offences in the Australian community as a result.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: This is in regard to the High Court decision releasing detainees. How many detainees have now been released from custody due to the High Court decision? 

Ms Foster : It is 149. 

Senator ROBERTS: How many of those released detainees have been returned to custody? 

Ms Foster : None have been returned to immigration detention. The question of custody is a different matter where there are offences that might put them into the state and territory system. 

Mr Outram : That being the case, I don’t have that information, because the states and territories, of course, are responsible for arrest, charge and prosecution of state-based offences. I would need to check and take on notice whether we were aware of any cases where, for example, somebody may have been charged and bail refused. Off the top of my head I don’t have that information with me, but I’ll take it on notice. 

Senator ROBERTS: How many of the released detainees are being closely monitored, and in what circumstances are they being monitored? 

Ms Holben : Of the current cohort, 113 are being electronically monitored. 

Senator ROBERTS: Remotely monitored? 

Ms Holben : Electronically monitored. 

Senator Watt: Am I right that there are other forms of monitoring that are occurring as well? 

Ms Holben : That’s correct. Within the visa itself there are 26 conditions. One of those conditions is that a person could be monitored by an electronic device. There are other conditions that are placed on the person which entail reporting, in terms of daily reporting to the department, also notifying a change of address and circumstance. There are 26 conditions that are imposed on this particular cohort. 

Senator ROBERTS: Is it possible to get that list and the conditions under which each are applied? 

Ms Holben : Yes, we can do that on notice. 

Senator ROBERTS: We have seen the minister acknowledging the gravity of the situation, but how safe is the Australian community from immigrants with a known history of terrorism or criminal activity? 

Ms Foster : This cohort does not relate to anyone with a terrorist history. You have just heard the ABF describe the regime, which is designed to maximise protection of the community, of those people that the High Court decision required us to release. 

Senator ROBERTS: I understand that. But my understanding is also that the states have prosecuted at least three. Is that the case? Or arrested at least three? 

Mr Outram : There are a number of cases— 

Senator ROBERTS: You’ll take it on notice, I assume. 

Mr Outram : I will take it on notice. Again, the states and territories are running prosecutions. They may decide to drop the case. There will be different stages. We will take it on notice. 

Senator ROBERTS: That’s what I was referring to. You’ve already taken it on notice. I’m not expecting you to know the details, but how safe is the Australian community from immigrants with a known criminal history? Are you monitoring them? 

Ms Foster : If we are speaking about the cohort that had to be released as a result of the High Court decision, the process that the commissioner and the deputy commissioner have been describing is all about putting in place conditions to maximise the safety of the community. And that goes to the sort of things that they were talking about, restrictions on their visa, monitoring— 

Senator ROBERTS: How confident are you that people are safe? 

Ms Foster : We are putting all of the elements in place that are within our power legislatively to provide for community safety. I’m very confident that we are doing all we can. 

Senator ROBERTS: Do you need any additional legislative powers? 

Ms Foster : Not at this time. 

Senator Watt: Can I just add—I don’t know if you were here when we talked about this—many of the actions that are being taken to protect the community, for example installing electronic bracelet or a curfew or something else like that, those decisions are being made on the recommendation of the Community Protection Board, which includes former police commissioners and corrections commissioners. We have attempted to ensure that the community is well protected by seeking the advice of people with a vast amount of experience in this space. 

Ms Foster : And draws very heavily on state and territory law enforcement agencies, for whom this is their bread and butter. 

Senator ROBERTS: So you meet with them, listen to them and involve them in the process? 

Mr Outram : The day after the High Court decision was handed down, the law enforcement coordination group was stood up, which is each state and territory police force or service with the Australian Federal Police and ourselves, walking through these cases weekly, pushing information to each other about these cases so if circumstances change, because of course some people may be subject to state and territory regimes—reporting regimes, parole requirements, bail requirements, domestic violence orders, those sorts of things. So there’s a combination of controls, not just the controls that we apply at the Commonwealth level. We also, of course, refer offences under the Migration Act to the AFP for investigation. But that coordination between states and territories and the Commonwealth is really important. It adds another layer of protection for the community. 

Senator ROBERTS: So immigration—federal—is responsible for it, and law enforcement and states are responsible. I get that. 

Mr Outram : We’re sharing the effort here because there are a whole range of different laws, powers and regimes that intersect with each other. 

Ms Foster : The mechanism that the commissioner established and is running ensures that things aren’t dropping between the cracks—that we are making sure that we know what effort needs to be applied, whether that needs to be by state or territory or by the Commonwealth, and we’re talking about it and sharing information relating to it. 

Senator ROBERTS: Going to the root cause, Ms Foster, what vetting was done of each of the released detainees to determine their risk profile when living in the community? 

Ms Foster : The High Court decision required us to release the affected detainees as soon as we formed a view that that release was legally necessary. The process that then was established was the one that the commissioner has been describing, which is to provide all of the information we have about those individuals who were required to be released to state and territory counterparts so that appropriate risk could be put in place and also so that visa conditions could be imposed, which would give the highest possible level of assurance of safety to the community. 

Senator ROBERTS: Has there been any review of the immigration vetting in the first place? 

Ms Foster : If you mean the granting of the visas— 

Senator ROBERTS: Yes. 

Ms Foster : We have been looking at our system end to end to make sure that we are looking at every touchpoint so that we can prevent having people who are going to cause risk. It may be that there are ways that we can relook at, say, the granting of visas in particular cohorts or cases. 

Senator ROBERTS: That’s what I was getting at. 

Ms Foster : So we’re looking at, as I said, the whole process. 

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