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This exchange during Senate Estimates with the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) sums up just how bad Estimates has become under the Albanese Labor Government.

The TGA is well aware that Senators only have a few minutes to ask questions, and they understand that the more they can stall, the less likely it is they’ll have to say anything that could cause problems for their Minister—regardless of the truth. Because of this, the Minister will not require the “witness” to answer the question, nor will the Committee Chair—both of whom are Labor Senators.

My first question was a genuine attempt to clarify misinformation circulating online about aluminium intake. The answer was a simple “yes.” Keep that in mind when you watch the video. Instead of confirming the obvious and allowing us to move on to another question about aluminium in vaccines, the opportunity was taken to stall for time by debating whether the question should even be asked at all. Dr. Lawler, Deputy Secretary of the Health Products Regulation Group within the Department of Health, oversees the agencies and committees the Government uses to spread responsibility, avoiding accountability. He was exactly the right person to direct these questions to.

The data I presented was straightforward: the level of aluminium in vaccines is unsafe for infants by an order of magnitude. Yet the TGA spent a great deal of time on their pre-prepared responses insisting that vaccines are safe. They refuse to accept any data showing that this level of exposure is causing health issues in infants. I then asked whether our vaccines had been subject to gold standard testing—a term used on many occasions by “witnesses” attending Estimates to defend COVID vaccines – yet suddenly, the gold standard is no longer relevant to … vaccines! Suddenly, testing a product against a double-blind placebo (saline) is now considered “unsafe,” despite this being the standard for a century?

In reality, what Big Pharma has been doing for years—and what the TGA has allowed them to do in Australia—is to compare new vaccines (or medications for that matter) against existing ones, rather than saline. If the harm detected is the same as that already being caused by the “placebo” medication, it’s deemed safe. This is not how things should be.

I will continue this line of questioning until we get a proper inquiry into the level of heavy metal contamination in infant vaccines.

— Senate Estimates | October 2025

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for being here again, especially Professor Lawler. Before I start, can we deal with a statement I hear on the internet all the time—that you get more aluminium in your food than you do in vaccines. Aluminium in food is ingested at 0.3 per cent. In vaccines, it’s ingested at 100 per cent. Individual results may vary. Is this a fair statement?  

Prof. Lawler: I’m not sure where you’re seeing that. I don’t have the information you’re referencing in front of me.  

Senator ROBERTS: I’m asking you whether it’s accurate.  

Prof. Lawler: I’m not sure that is necessarily a question for the TGA to respond to. We can provide you with information on the process that we undertake in terms of the evaluation and authorisation of therapeutic goods, including vaccines. Is this a claim that the TGA has made?  

Senator ROBERTS: No. That’s my understanding. What is the TGA’s recommended maximum daily intake of aluminium for a child aged six months, please?  

Prof. Lawler: By mouth as a recommended daily intake?  

Senator ROBERTS: Yes.  

Prof. Lawler: I don’t believe that the TGA sets a recommended daily ingestion of aluminium, Senator.  

Senator ROBERTS: What is the daily maximum for a child of six months that can ingest aluminium in food?  

Prof. Lawler: I would suggest that those are probably questions best posed to Food Standards Australia New Zealand, Senator.  

Senator ROBERTS: The US Food and Drug Administration recommends exposure of five micrograms per kilogram in infants. At six months, the average weight of an infant is seven kilograms, making the maximum daily exposure 35 micrograms. The Infanrix hexa vaccine contains 825 micrograms of aluminium per dose, which is 24 times its safe daily limit. Do you accept injecting children at 23 times the safe level? Do you accept that this unsafe aluminium exposure is a contributing factor to aluminium derived autism?  

Prof. Lawler: I will throw to Dr Dascombe in a moment. I will answer a couple of the things there in reverse order, if I may. The first is that, in answer to your second question, no. I don’t believe that there is a recognised regulator—I’m happy to be corrected—that does.  

Senator ROBERTS: Rather than relying on someone else, do you have any data or research?  

Prof. Lawler: I’m just trying to answer your question. I don’t believe that there is another regulator. I’m just using that as back-up. We have seen no credible safety signal that aluminium load either in single or scheduled immunisation delivery is a contributor to autism. The second thing I would say is that I am not sure this is the forum, nor do we have the time, to clarify the distinction between injected and ingested aluminium. They are quite different biomechanical processes. I don’t think the two are comparable. I will ask Dr Dascombe to add to that answer.  

Dr Dascombe: I echo the comments of Professor Lawler. Neither the TGA nor any international regulator has detected or confirmed any safety signals relating to any vaccine and autism. This is also supported by the weight of scientific evidence.  

Senator ROBERTS: What is the TGA guidance for the injection of multiple vaccines into a six-month-old at the same time causing amplified aluminium? Each of those doses has aluminium adjuvant, a preservative, so each of them is 24 times the daily safe limit.  

Prof. Lawler: My apologies for breaking in, Senator. There are a couple of points on that. It is not the practice or the role of the TGA to make recommendations on immunisation schedules. That sits within the province of ATAGI, the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation. I would also highlight that we have frequently responded to questions around the aluminium load in the vaccination schedule and their consequences. Most recently, but perhaps more recently, is a Senate question on notice 24-003075. We have discussed it in this place a number of times.  

Senator ROBERTS: You see the problem. Just one vaccine can be 24 times over the safe daily limit. You are recommending injecting multiple of them at the same time. These infants could be getting over 100 times the safe limit and you just keep on injecting them right in there and then claim aluminium poisoning isn’t the reason they come down with autism in some cases the very next day. How can you justify this?  

Prof. Lawler: I will answer those questions in reverse order, if I may. I will answer the second. There is no indication that the vaccination schedule is linked to autism. Indeed, it has been highlighted not just today but previously. There’s no credible evidence that there is a linkage between vaccination and autism. As I just indicated in my previous answer, it is not the role of the TGA to recommend vaccinations. We assess them for safety, quality and efficacy. It’s the role of ATAGI to recommend the vaccination schedules.  

Senator ROBERTS: Why don’t you tell the pharma companies to reduce the aluminium preservatives down to safe levels so you can get parents to trust your vaccine again and the parents can trust your advice again?  

Prof. Lawler: There are a couple of elements in your question. We evaluate the submissions from sponsors and evaluate the process of manufacture and quality control to ensure that the balance of risk versus benefit is appropriate. That is a determination that we make not only in the authorisation but also in the post-market monitoring through our pharmacovigilance of any therapeutic good with the inclusion of vaccines. In terms of trust, we recognise that there is an active campaign to undermine the trust of regulators, the TGA particularly. We undertake to restore or bolster the trust of the public, which I have to say was during the pandemic and is still, despite some narratives, at a high level. We seek to do that through education and guidance. We do that through being very clear and transparent about what we do and by addressing dis- and misinformation when and if it occurs.  

Senator ROBERTS: How many vaccines in the Australian schedule have been subject to a gold standard trial, meaning specifically a randomised double blind placebo control study where the placebo is saline and not another vaccine?  

Prof. Lawler: I recognise that you weren’t here before lunch. We had a conversation with Senator Antic regarding the use of the term ‘gold standard’. We recognise that the use of a placebo control randomised double control trial—there are a number of different terminologies used—is of a very high standard and presents robust and dependable evidence. The challenge, of course, is whether something constitutes a gold standard in the way that you have used it. It actually very much depends on context. We use controlled or blinded trials or placebo trials when we are interested in determining the difference between a control arm and an intervention arm. This is really effective when we’re looking at incremental improvements in therapies or when we’re looking at the introduction of new therapies. The challenge we have, of course, is that when there is an established therapy that has been shown over decades using both documented and real-world evidence to be both safe and effective, it is ethically questionable—and, in some instances, ethically indefensible—to use a placebo in that non-intervention arm. I will give you two examples, if I may. We have vaccine preventable diseases, and we have a very clear demonstration of reduction in not only mortality but morbidity in those diseases. Let’s choose polio and small pox, diseases that have had a specific impact for many decades and have led to untold suffering. One of them has been eradicated by the use of vaccines and one of them has been virtually eradicated. If we were to introduce placebo controlled trials for those drugs, that would be horrendously unethical. We would be essentially and knowingly infecting children with a disease that could kill, paralyse or maim when we know that there is a way of preventing that. That’s not ethically defensible.  

Senator ROBERTS: What you are saying is that there has been no double blind placebo control study where the placebo was saline and not another vaccine?  

Prof. Lawler: No. What I am saying is that would not be an appropriate approach to be taking today with the vaccines we use.  

Senator ROBERTS: Has it been taken in the past?  

Prof. Lawler: I also would highlight that the introduction of vaccines occurred some time ago. And also—  

Senator ROBERTS: So it has not been done?  

Prof. Lawler: I will let you finish.  

Senator ROBERTS: So it has not been done, then, the tests?  

Prof. Lawler: Whether these—  

Senator ROBERTS: A double blind trial?  

Prof. Lawler: Well, we’ve actually already taken on notice to provide concrete evidence on which of those vaccines has been subjected previously to blinded control trials.  

Senator ROBERTS: How many COVID vaccines have been destroyed because they aged out? What was the purchase cost for those products?  

Prof. Lawler: Dr Anna Peatt from the national immunisation division will respond to that.  

CHAIR: This is your last question, Senator Roberts.  

Dr Peatt: Senator, could you please repeat the question? I didn’t quite hear it.  

Senator ROBERTS: Certainly. How many COVID vaccines have been destroyed because they aged out? What was the purchase cost for those products?  

Dr Peatt: Senator, I would have to take that question on notice. I don’t have that available with me today.  

Senator ROBERTS: Was close to 35 per cent of the multibillion-dollar COVID vaccine supply binned or trashed?  

Dr Peatt: I would have to take that question on notice.  

Senator ROBERTS: I am asking for you specifically to tell us whether or not it was 35 per cent.  

Dr Peatt: I don’t have that figure in front of me.  

Senator ROBERTS: I am asking for you to just say what the figures are. Can you confirm that is 35 per cent of what we bought?  

Dr Peatt: Yes, I can do. 

✅ 100% agree!

Sourced from Secretary Kennedy on X @SecKennedy:

Medical decisions should be made based on one thing: the wellbeing of the person—never on a financial bonus or a government mandate.

Doctors deserve the freedom to use their training, follow the science, and speak the truth without fear of punishment.

The largest ever study (QoVAX) comparing COVID injected to non-injected patients has been stopped without explanation, and Queensland Health is on track to destroy all of its samples and evidence.

Losing the last evidence that could inform a truly objective assessment of the effects of the injections wouldn’t just be a tragedy, it could be a crime.

I’m putting Queensland Health bureaucrats on notice. Do NOT destroy these samples and evidence – allow the study to complete so that the data can be shared for all Australians.

Transcript

This building could become the biggest crime scene in Australia.

I’m standing outside the Queensland Royal Brisbane and Women’s Hospital, Metro North, where Queensland Health intends to cover up and destroy evidence of the COVID vaccine fraud.

In 2021, a major research project, the QoVAX study, started researching 10,600 biospecimens from donors injected with the COVID-19 injections and from donors not injected.

The study was considering effectiveness and outcomes of being injected versus non injected.

It was to be the largest study of this nature in the world to date.

After only 18 months, the $20 million programme was shut down suddenly and without warning and with no valid reason provided. The donors were not even consulted, and neither were senior scientists running the study.

Metro North now intends to destroy the data and specimens, even though they’ve been informed of pending legal action to preserve the valuable data and evidence in the samples and material.

Destroying the samples would be a crime. Punishment for all responsible could include gaol time and massive fines.

The Human Research and Ethics Committee and board members of Metro North are failing in their duty and oversight responsibilities. This may make them culpable.

Why do these bodies wish to destroy the samples and data? What are they trying to hide?

Papers are about to be completed and published for the first 18 months of the research. If the research reveals problems with the COVID shots, it would embarrass Queensland Health bureaucrats and politicians. That’s motive for destroying the samples and the evidence.

If the research reveals no problems with the shots, why would Queensland Health not release the data and conclusions?

With a $4 billion annual budget, Queensland Health’s Metro North can afford to continue storing the samples and preserve the data.

I call for this decision to be immediately withdrawn and steps taken to preserve the specimens and reinstate this vital programme to provide conclusions as to the nature and effects of the COVID injections.

I’m sending letters to raise this issue with the Premier of Queensland, the Minister for Health and the Attorney General.

This is just another reason why Prime Minister Anthony Albanese must call a royal Commission into the entire COVID response.

Letters to Queensland’s Premier, Attorney-General and Minister for Health

One Nation will restore direct oversight, supervision, accountability, and control to Parliament, removing influence from pharmaceutical companies over drug and product approvals.

Recently the head of the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) Professor Skerrit left his role at the TGA and commenced work with Medicines Australia, which is the lobby group for the pharmaceutical industry. In effect, the professor is now working for the companies he recently regulated.

This is entirely unacceptable. The health of everyday Australians and trust in the medical establishment is too important to leave in the hands of a broken system rife with cronyism and self-interest.

We will return the power to authorise drugs and medical devices back to the Minister for Health, who will be responsible for delegating these decisions to his own departmental staff.

This system will ensure that the Minister’s decisions will be subject to rigorous parliamentary scrutiny, prevent conflicts of interest and most importantly remove the direct relationship between the TGA and pharmaceutical companies they are supposed to regulate.

Security of employment in the public service should prevent the revolving door we currently have between the TGA and pharmaceutical companies and ensure the best possible outcome for everyday Australians.

Dengue fever is a viral illness spread by the Aedes aegypti mosquito (known as the dengue mosquito in north Queensland). The dengue virus is not endemic in Australia, meaning the virus is not normally present in Australia.

Dengue fever outbreaks begin when someone is infected with dengue overseas and arrives with the virus in their blood. This is referred to as an imported case. When a local Aedes aegypti mosquito bites an infected person, it in turn becomes infected with the virus and can then transmit it to others through subsequent bites. These instances are known as locally acquired cases.

The dengue virus does not spread directly from person to person.

Catching different types of dengue, even years apart, increases the risk of developing severe dengue. Severe dengue causes bleeding and shock, and can be life-threatening. There have been deaths in Queensland from severe dengue. This is why a vaccine is problematic, because that relies on giving the subject the disease.

About Oxitec and Their Process

Oxitec’s genetically modified mosquitoes work by releasing sterile males into the wild to mate with females, which results in offspring that die in the larval stage. Oxitec’s mosquitoes are engineered with a self-limiting gene that produces a non-toxic protein that prevents their offspring from surviving to adulthood. The protein, called tTAV, disrupts the cell’s ability to function and prevents the insect from developing normally.

The gene can be switched off using amoxicillin, which allows the factory to breed the mosquitoes, then once in the wild, the amoxicillin wears off and the gene starts producing the protein again.

In short – it’s gene editing, hence the need for the application to the Office of the Gene Technology regulator.

Our CSIRO is a proponent | https://www.csiro.au/en/news/all/news/2024/december/csiro-oxitec-to-tackle-disease-spreading-mosquitoes-threatening-mainland-australia

“Launched today, Oxitec Australia is a collaboration between CSIRO, Australia’s national science agency, and UK-based Oxitec Ltd, the leading developer of biological solutions to control pests.“

And look who is running the show – “Professor Brett Sutton, Director of Health & Biosecurity at CSIRO, said Oxitec Australia is now seeking partners to accelerate its activities and product development in Australia.”

When I said it was a template, this is confirmed in the CSIRO press release:

“This technology platform could also be used to develop solutions for a wide spectrum of pests that threaten livestock and crops and our food systems.”

Oxitec are running field trials on a fall armyworm with the same gene added, which is a moth not a mosquito. And it’s our money going into this so Estimates is fair game:

“Oxitec Australia is also developing an Aedes albopictus (Asian tiger mosquito) solution, with funding from CSIRO, to help prevent a major invasion risk to mainland Australia. “

Mosquito Performance in Brazil

Oxitec launched a year-long field trial in Indaiatuba, Brazil in 2018. The trial involved releasing Oxitec’s Friendly™ Aedes aegypti in four communities. The trial’s results included an average of 89% peak suppression in two communities treated with a low release rate of mosquitoes according to Oxitec. Brazil’s Dengue rate was low in 2018, and jumped up in 2019 and later. The locals are claiming a connection but there is no science around what that connection could be.

Gates Foundation however washed their hands of the Brazil Dengue escalation with this statement:

“A spokesperson at the Gates Foundation told AFP that the foundation ‘does not fund any of Oxitec’s work involving Aedes aegypti mosquito release in Brazil.’ 

NOT exactly a debunking of the controversy.

People are asking if the explosion in Dengue in Brazil the year after the trial was related, especially when the same thing happened after a similar trial for Zika. It is a question that should be addressed, although I do think it is not connected.

Florida 2021 – Nothing Went Wrong

Oxitec ran a controlled release in Florida in 2021. A kill rate of 90% was proven, with no known unintended consequences. HOWEVER, there was an increase in Dengue the following year and the same thing happened with the Zika test in Brazil. The reason this isn’t related is the genotype:

“We documented an unprecedented number of travel-associated and locally acquired DENV-3 cases in Florida during May 2022–April 2023; circulation of the DENV-3 genotype III was recently identified in the Americas. Our investigation illustrates that local transmission and spread in Florida was limited, despite multiple introductions from outside the country. Sequencing and phylogenetic analysis revealed that cases were from the same DENV-3 genotype III lineage and were highly related to one another and to cases identified in Puerto Rico, Arizona, and Brazil.”

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/2/23-1615_article

So the outbreak was not spontaneous in the area of the trial, but was introduced from outside.

Dengue Vaccine and the Philippines Scandal

Sanofi Pasteur owns the Dengvaxia® vaccine – the first licensed dengue vaccine and available in more than 20 countries. It is registered with the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) in Australia, but is not currently marketed here.

WIKIPEDIA: “The Philippine Department of Health began in 2016 a programme in three regions to vaccinate schoolchildren against dengue fever, using Dengvaxia supplied by Sanofi Pasteur. On 29 November 2017, Sanofi issued a caution stating that new analysis had shown that those vaccinated who had not previously been infected with dengue ran a greater risk of infection causing severe symptoms. On 1 December 2017, the Philippine DOH placed the programme on hold, pending review. Over 700,000 people had received at least one vaccination at that point.[11][12] Since the announcement by Sanofi, at least 62 children have died, allegedly after receiving a vaccination. The victims’ parents blamed the dengue vaccine for the deaths of their children.”

Most of the deaths were caused by internal bleeding in the heart, lungs and brain, which are symptoms of haemorrhagic dengue.

Sanofi announcement confirms facts:

Wikipedia with references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy

Is this an Attempt to Create a Disease Just to Sell the vaccine?

Comparison of death rates from the vaccinated and unvaccinated suggests the vaccine offers some benefit, but that is mostly based in areas and demographics where health services are poor. It is best answered by offering mobile health services in affected areas. This Australia can do, whereas maybe the Philippines can’t.

The vaccine is listed in Australia – but hasn’t been used. The Philippines incident was the last known use of the vaccine, and the victim’s court case is still underway. Given Sanofi’s admissions around the vaccine and WHO’s advisory that a serology test is needed before giving the vaccine to a person to ensure they haven’t had the disease before, I doubt this is a vaccine play.

The mRNA version of the vaccine was trialled and rejected in 2014 because it didn’t work. It’s not an attempt to feed work to Pfizer’s new mRNA factories in Australia. There are new vaccines coming through but they have the same problem – making the disease worse in people who have had it before.

Some Mosquitoes Replicate

4% of the mosquitoes in the Brazil test lived and replicated. No work appears to have been done on what happened to the offspring – were they normal or were they mutated and if so, what is the effect of that mutation?

Could a mutated progeny cause a mutation in the virus (Dengue, Zika, Yellow Fever, Malaria) which causes it to become more dangerous, infectious, etc. This is a major question to be answered – capturing and testing mosquitoes in the wild to look for mutations, and that work has not been done. It must be an element of the OGTR approval.

Mosquitoes have a life cycle of 7 – 10 days. Fall army worms (FAW) live 6 – 8 weeks, so they are present in the environment longer but not significantly so.

Cane Toad Disaster at Risk of Repeating

On Wednesday of the last sitting week in November, Senator Shoebridge proposed a bill to legalise cannabis. While support for legalising cannabis is growing strongly across Australia and Queensland, it’s essential to approach the topic with care, data, and diligence. It’s important to understand that despite claims by the TGA and the Lib-Lab UniParty that medicinal cannabis is freely available, the reality is quite different. The plant is artificially expensive and restricted in availability.

In an honest and effective way, we need to make medicinal cannabis easy and affordable to access for millions of Australians. One Nation will continue to lead the way in taking this first, humane step.

While we welcome much of Senator Shoebridge’s bill, there are three key sticking points that One Nation cannot accept:

1. One Nation cannot support home grow at this time. The trial of home cultivation in the ACT has shown it’s not widely adopted. A licensed commercial system would benefit more people than home grow at this stage

2. The fines and jail sentences proposed in the bill are excessively high. One Nation believes in ensuring that the punishment fits the crime, and this bill strangely gets that balance wrong.

3. One Nation does not support creating a new government entity to maintain a cultivar database. Instead, we would work with existing entities to achieve this purpose.

That said, the approach of removing cannabis from the control of pharmaceutical company salespeople at the TGA and establishing a new unit led by people who understand the plant, the industry, and can advance medicinal cannabis—is an excellent idea that One Nation fully supports.

A vote for One Nation is a vote for Australian, whole-plant, natural medicinal cannabis for anyone with a medical need. It would be accessible via a prescription from a doctor, nurse practitioner, or cannabis specialist, and filled by a pharmacist or qualified dispensary under the PBS.

This plan will not increase costs to taxpayers. Evidence from countries that have adopted this model shows that cannabis reduces healthcare spending, as it’s cheaper than many expensive pharmaceutical alternatives—if implemented correctly.

Transcript

There’s much in the Legalising Cannabis Bill 2023 which would make the regulatory environment for cannabis in Australia much, much fairer, so I thank Senator Shoebridge for bringing this bill before the Senate. I feel very pleased to speak, excited about some things and disappointed about others. For too long, the government of the day, both Liberal and Labor, have acted to defend the pharmaceutical state from the competition that medical cannabis represents. Indeed, our regulatory body, the Therapeutic Goods Administration, is funded from the pharmaceutical industry that it purports to regulate. The result is regulatory capture. 

In recent years the Therapeutic Goods Administration, the TGA, has taken decisions that defy logic and that breach integrity—decisions that have placed 90 per cent of Australian adults at great risk of harm and death, decisions that have led to excess deaths it refuses to address, because the cause is the TGA and our health authorities. The TGA is a failed experiment; that is abundantly clear. It’s time to shut down the TGA and its apparatus of expert committees and agencies which act in concert to support the pharmaceutical industry to the detriment of the Australian people. It’s time to return control of drug and medical device approvals to the department, where the parliament will be able to exercise oversight and ensure accountability and transparency, which are sadly missing with the TGA. 

The department can be downsized. Health is the state responsibility. Centralised regulation of drugs in the hands of the Commonwealth makes sense, and the states should be charged the cost of doing it or do it themselves, as they used to. Cannabis was removed from medical options in Australia following the Menzies government’s passage of the National Health Act 1953. This legislation placed the British Pharmacopoeia as the primary source of standards for drugs in Australia. Cannabis was a stalwart of pharmacopoeia. In 2024 the only pharmacopoeia that still includes medicinal cannabis is the European version. My point is that cannabis was widely used and accepted as a legitimate medical option across a wide range of profiles for a wide range of conditions. Without a doubt, pharmaceuticals have been a boon for modern society in many ways, although for many people modern pharmaceuticals don’t work, or the side effects can exceed the benefit. There’s a simple reason for this: medical cannabis has thousands of versions, with different combinations of cannabinoids, terpenes, flavonoids, steroids and other elements of the plant. There are thousands of elements. The Australian cannabis cultivar repository has almost 1,000 live cultivars of cannabis and is adding more all the time. 

The significance of this is that it allows a patient, under the right guidance, to match their strain of cannabis—known as the profile—to the condition that they have. Modern pharmaceuticals employ and promote the opposite approach, matching a pharmaceutical product to a condition—one size fits all, if you like. That’s not the way health should be. But both approaches should be available to the Australian people. 

I know the government and the opposition will point to the number of prescriptions written under the pathway scheme for medical cannabis and use that to mislead the public about the success of the current system. Before they make that ill-informed statement, I ask for an answer to the question the TGA refuses to answer: how many people who received a prescription for medical cannabis actually filled it? I’ll ask that again: how many people who received a prescription for medical cannabis actually filled it? My office is hearing from patients who could not afford the prescription, who could not find a chemist to fill it—often because supply was not available—and who paid out big money to get supply that was stale or even mouldy. I want to know how many people who used a medical cannabis product then suffered a side effect. I received a response to a question on notice around this last year. The answer, though, did not differentiate between legal and illegal supply. 

So many people have trouble with price or availability and they fill their prescription on the black market. Some of the black-market players run rings around the quality of the legal supply, and many others do not. On the volume of prescriptions written, though not necessarily filled, the rate of harm from medical cannabis is substantially below the rate of harm for many pharmaceutical drugs. Yet cannabis has not been embraced as an alternative treatment. It used to be the leading medicine in the medical almanac in the 1930s in America; it was No. 1. So why hasn’t it been embraced? Why has it been knocked out? Money talks. 

Restrictions to medical cannabis are more than directly regulatory. Other subtle hurdles make it difficult to access and use affordably, and that’s to the detriment of Australians’ health. Cannabis will never be approved because the cost of navigating the TGA system is so high that no cannabis supplier can afford it. The Legalising Cannabis Bill 2023 contains a new regulator which could function as a unit with the department. The Cannabis Australia National Agency, CANA, would employ people who know the plant and who know how it should and should not be used. That’s a blessing. CANA would set standards for use, sale, promotion, production and importation without the need for a sponsor. CANA could work with the department to understand the supply needs of the pathway scheme to issue formal guidance on profile and volume until such time as the industry develop the critical mass to do that themselves. This solves the pathways scheme’s biggest hurdle: the supply is patchy and the quality is often rubbish. CANA would license strains of cannabis and issue guidance for use through a new agency. I suggest the Greens could have used the existing Australian cannabis register, although that’s a small point. Regulation is necessary. Some of these insane new varieties of cannabis coming out of the United States have THC levels above 30 per cent. The cannabis that came to Australia during the Vietnam War was only three per cent THC. Over 30 per cent THC is insane, though perhaps useful for palliative care at best. 

At this point, One Nation and the Greens diverge. The bill allows home cultivation of six plants. One Nation cannot support home grow. There is a qualification here: our opposition to home grow can exist only if Australians have access to safe, cheap, tested, licensed and accessible product, with a prescription from a doctor or nurse practitioner filled through a chemist or other suitable agent and supplied on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, the PBS. One Nation introduced a bill which would have done just that, and it was roasted, including by the Greens, can I say. In an interesting example of karma, their bill met the same fate. 

The German government tried for two years, through 2022 and 2023, to introduce legislation which was similar to mine—sensible down-regulation of cannabis. They spent two years fighting entrenched interests, their own department and the Bundestag, the German parliament, and then lost patience. In a decision which could be characterised as ‘Stuff the lot of you’, the government simply legalised cannabis. That came into effect on 1 April this year. I’m pleased to inform the Senate that, in a country which is directly comparable to our country, Australia, legalised cannabis hasn’t caused the world to end. In fact, nothing harmful has happened. This was the same result in the Australian Capital Territory, which allowed home grow three years ago with the same result. No harm happened. In fact, nothing happened. And that is a problem. Legalising cannabis is supposed to help people treat medical conditions, reduce drug and alcohol addiction, reduce the presence of organised crime and chill. None of that appears to have occurred. Homegrown appeals to the small number of Australians within the cannabis community who know what they are doing and who have the land to home grow. For most Australians, regulated supply works better. At this point in the development of cannabis in Australia, regulated supply will help more Australians than home grow will. I’ll say that again. At this point in the development of cannabis, which is continuing, in Australia, regulated supply will help more Australians than will home grow. 

The cannabis community makes a mistake that I find quite frustrating. They judge the plant on the basis of their experience and knowledge. They advocate for open grow and use like it were nothing more than a herb. It’s not just a herb. As I said earlier, there are 1,000 different profiles, and that number is increasing. How does an average Australian, a typical Australian, with no or limited knowledge know which one is right, how to grow it properly, how to prepare it properly and how to store and use it correctly? A typical Australian doesn’t know that, and that suggests smoking the plant, which One Nation suggests is the worst way to take medicinal cannabis. The most scientific, the most accurate and the safest is to purchase a cannabis vaping solution and vape it. But I won’t go there further today. 

The other aspect of the bill One Nation cannot accept is the fines and jail sentences for minor breaches of the regulations. Seriously, six months in jail and 200 penalties earned, which is $36,000? On the other hand, children under 18 get off without a penalty at all. I get that the Greens are trying to raise the age of criminal responsibility, but a 17-year-old who starts a business growing and selling cannabis gets no penalty at all. One Nation questions that. This has not been thought through properly. 

Let me finish with a warning and an invitation. Increasingly, One Nation is tending to the German response. If you won’t allow sensible regulation, then no regulation it is. We need sensible regulation. One Nation is prepared to engage with the government and others across the Senate to achieve a sensible regulation of cannabis, including on the PBS. We continue to listen to the community, to the people, Queensland and Australia, because we want to achieve a sensible regulation of cannabis including on the PBS.  

During this session with the AFP, I inquired whether they had received a complaint about several individuals who had received tainted blood as a result of failures by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories and the Red Cross to ensure the safety of blood donations used in medical treatments. The question was taken on notice.

Transcript

Thank you all for appearing tonight. I’ll get one question out of the way first. In October this year, several haemophiliacs and parents of haemophiliacs filed criminal complaints with the Australian Federal Police commissioner, Commissioner Kershaw. The complainants have not received any acknowledgement of their submissions. Is the federal government aware of these complaints? When can the complainants expect a response?

Mr McCartney: I’m not across the matter. I’ll take that on notice, and we’ll come back to you.

Senator ROBERTS: We’ve supported these people and we’ll continue to support them. They’ve got a serious case. It’s an injustice that’s very strong and sustained. Their counterparts in Britain have been dealt with properly. These people over here are not being dealt with.

Australia is in a housing crisis. Tent cities are appearing across the country, from parks and bridges to family cars, as rents soar and home ownership becomes unattainable. I’ve seen these conditions firsthand, and it’s heartbreaking. Since 2020, rents have increased by 40%, and the average house price has jumped to nearly 10 times the average income.

A major driver of this crisis is our turbocharged immigration program. While I value the contributions of migrants—being one myself—the current intake is unsustainable. In 2023 alone, over half a million net migrants arrived in Australia. This relentless surge is straining our housing market, health services, infrastructure, and economy.

The math is simple. With 2.45 million temporary visa holders in the country, about one million homes are occupied by these individuals. Yet, we’re building far fewer homes than we need, leaving more Australians homeless and without hope. This unprecedented immigration inflates demand, driving up costs in housing, infrastructure, and everyday essentials. High inflation, soaring interest rates, and gridlocked roads are the direct results of this unsustainable growth. Meanwhile, our health system is overwhelmed, and working families are left to fend for themselves.

The government’s solution? More immigration. It’s time to prioritise Australians—our families, our communities, and our future. Let’s address the housing crisis with meaningful reforms, not empty promises.

Transcript

Australia is in a housing crisis—a housing catastrophe. Tent cities are appearing across the country in the way many people have never seen before. I have been to them. It’s disgraceful. In almost every major city in Queensland I’ve been to, the tents are there. People are sleeping under bridges, in caravans, in parks or in their family car. In August 2020, the national average rent was $437 a week. It’s now $627 a week. That’s an increase of 40 per cent over just a few years. In 1987, the average house price was 2.8 times the average income. Today the house price is 9.7 times the income. That’s nearly 10 times. What hope have our children got? 

A major driver of the housing crisis is Australia’s turbocharged immigration program. Listen to the facts that I’ll come up with soon, and remember that I’m not against migration. I was born in India; I’m half migrant. Australia has a very proud history of migrants building this country, but at the moment we have too many. Let me give you those figures. Australia’s net overseas migration used to average a bit over 80,000 a year. For the 2023 year, our net intake was an astonishing 547,000 new people. That’s more than half a million new people net. In the nine months to September 2024, 394,000 immigrants were added to the population. That puts us well on track for yet another year of more than half a million arrivals into the country. That’s net. That’s after the people who’ve left have been removed from the count. 

Soon after setting Australia’s immigration record last year, Prime Minister Albanese promised he would cut immigration rates. Instead he increased immigration rates and is on track for a second new record in a row. Before 2020 and excluding tourists and short-stay crew, there were around 1.8 million temporary visa holders in the country. Today that number is 2.45 million temporary visa holders in the country, an increase of a third. Using Australia’s average household size of about 2½ people per dwelling, that means temporary visa holders are taking up one million homes. One million homes are unavailable because of this immigration program. 

The Master Builders Association’s October housing review shows that, in the 12 months to 30 June this year, only 158,000 homes were completed. So much for your housing policy. That’s less than we needed to cover new arrivals let alone the homeless and those sharing who want their own place. Every year that this Labor government is in power is yet another year Australia’s housing crisis becomes worse. That is why it’s beyond a crisis; it’s a catastrophe. The ALP and the Greens can promise more houses all they like. Houses aren’t built out of rhetoric. When Australians are sleeping on the street we have to stop the flow of more people into the country. 

Some of these temporary visa holders have to leave. Let’s start with the 400,000 overseas students who have completed or discontinued their study and have failed the 100-point test necessary for permanent residency. These students are in a limbo which is best solved by returning home and developing their own countries with the skills learnt here. Then there are hundreds of thousands of long-stay visa holders who have failed to learn English and failed to get a job but who nonetheless avail themselves of social security. I’ll say that again: they failed to learn English, failed to get a job and are on social security that the Australian taxpayers are paying for. If someone has been in this country for five years and has failed to earn their own way then their visa must be critically reviewed to determine if Australia is the right place for them. It’s time to put the temporary back into temporary visa holder. Our country is bleeding; stop twisting the knife. 

The unprecedented level of immigration isn’t just leading to the housing crisis; 2.45 million extra people add to inflation. Inflation is caused when too much demand is chasing too few goods. It’s really simple, and 2.45 million new arrivals is a lot of new demand. It’s a hell of a lot. The government’s net zero energy policy has driven up power prices—we can all see that— and reduced the capacity of agriculture and manufacturing to meet this demand, leading to demand inflation. It’s a double whammy on inflation. The Reserve Bank has refused to lower interest rates because, as they have publicly stated, this unprecedented rate of immigration is creating so much excess demand, and they have said that reducing interest rates now would cause inflation to worsen. House prices are at highs. Now we’ve got interest rates high. This is a huge catastrophe. 

Why is the government doing this? As Senator Hanson said, we’ve been in a per capita recession now for six quarters. We should be in a recession, according to the performance of our economy. The only reason we’re not in a recession is that they’re flooding the joint with migrants to bump up the gross domestic product. You see, a recession is defined as two quarters of negative gross domestic product. So the only thing saving the recession tag from being hung around Prime Minister Albanese’s neck and Treasurer Jim Chalmers’s neck is the record immigration coming in to take us over zero so we’re just barely hanging in there. They don’t want to be tagged, the Prime Minister and the Treasurer, who are in office, when the recession hits. Instead they will let hundreds of thousands of people go without what they need, facing inflation and tens of thousands of people without a home. 

Immigration is also affecting our health response. Ambulance ramping is at an all-time high in most states, including in my state of Queensland. It takes time to train paramedics, expand emergency departments and buy new ambulances. The pace of the government’s increase in new arrivals has placed demand on our health system and it simply can’t keep up. Lives are at stake, people are dying, and Labor does not care. It doesn’t care about working families. It doesn’t care about mums and dads working then coming home at night to their family car in a park to see if their kids are still there. That is what this government is doing. 

One of the largest budget costs is more infrastructure, especially on roads and transport. These projects are collectively costing hundreds of billions of dollars. The huge demand for infrastructure materials and qualified people is driving up the cost of infrastructure, adding to inflation. Many of these projects wouldn’t be necessary if we didn’t have an extra 2.45 million people in the country. The people coming to work from the Gold Coast to Brisbane, coming to work from the Sunshine Coast, even Caboolture, Burpengary, Morayfield, every day to work in the city of Brisbane are tied up in a car park or are in stationary traffic for hours—their lives just slipping away. 

We have people sleeping under bridges. As I said a minute ago, we have a mother and father returning after work to see if the children are still in the car in the park in which they live, or a showground or maybe a tent under a bridge. Australia has the world’s richest reserves of minerals, bar none, and we have people sleeping in tents because the Labor government does not care. 

It’s a vicious cycle where the government claims that we can fix the immigration problem with more immigration and that we can fix the housing catastrophe by adding bureaucrats and more immigration—fix housing, the catastrophe, with more immigration.  

I asked the representative of the National Blood Authority if he was aware of the early history of the Red Cross and Health Department’s responses to ensuring the safety of blood products used in Australia.

He stated that the National Blood Authority had not been established at that time but recalled that Australia was one of the first countries to adopt measures to ensure the safety of blood transfusions.

Minister Gallagher took a defensive stance and denied any wrongdoing by the government at the time, and undertook to provide information to confirm this. However, I already have information showing she is mistaken and covering up for a government that disgracefully allowed many people to become sick, knowing this was a possibility.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you, Mr Cahill, for being here. In the 1970s, were the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories, the Australian Red Cross and the federal health department aware that hepatitis C, which was then referred to as non-A, non-B hepatitis, was present in Australia’s blood supply and blood products?  

Mr Cahill: The issues you’re raising preceded the creation of the National Blood Authority in 2003, so they’re issues for the Department of Health that they might want to address. But I can say that, yes, there was an awareness at a point in time.  

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for making it clear that your entity didn’t exist. In the 1970s and 1980s, were the federal health department, the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories and the Australian Red Cross aware that the practice of mass-pooling blood donations for fractionation, specifically for manufacturing haemophilia treatments like factor VIII and factor IX concentrates, significantly raised the risk of contaminating these products with hepatitis C, which was then non-A and non-B hepatitis virus?  

Senator Gallagher: What’s the question? Prof. Lawler: Sorry, to whom is the question directed?  

Senator ROBERTS: It was to the National Blood Authority, but it might predate you.  

Senator Gallagher: It’s hard to answer things from 50 years ago.  

Mr Comley: Chair, we’re trying to work this out. I know we very rarely say ‘relevance to the estimates’, but I am—  

CHAIR: I apologise, Mr Comley. Sorry, Senator Roberts. I can’t hear you, because you’re a bit away from the microphone, so I didn’t hear the question.  

Mr Comley: His question is about blood product practices in the 1980s, and I’m just—  

Senator Gallagher: It was the seventies.  

Mr Comley: It was the seventies and eighties.  

CHAIR: Could you just repeat the question, Senator Roberts? Come a bit closer to the microphone.  

Senator ROBERTS: Sure. There are many people in Australia who are still crippled by contaminated blood. Some of that originated in the seventies and eighties. In the United Kingdom, they’ve addressed this and given compensation. In Australia, we’re apparently pretending that it doesn’t exist. This affected budgets. It affects livelihoods. Shall I continue?  

CHAIR: Could you put it as a question?  

Senator Gallagher: I mean, we do usually have pretty wide-ranging question opportunities, but, I have to say, going back over 50 years and asking officials at the table is a bit difficult, Senator Roberts.  

Senator ROBERTS: These people have recently made an official complaint to the Australian Federal Police.  

Senator Gallagher: Okay, well—  

Senator ROBERTS: In Britain, they have given people compensation fairly recently. In other countries they’ve done it too, but not in Australia.  

Senator Gallagher: Again, we’re happy to assist where we can.  

Senator ROBERTS: It’s a legacy that’s hanging over the Australian government.  

Mr Cahill: I can make some observations, even though the issues did precede—  

CHAIR: Sure, but I still haven’t heard a question. I’m sorry.  

Senator ROBERTS: No, there was a question in there. Do you want me to do it again?  

Mr Cahill: The question as I understood it was, ‘Is there awareness?’  

Senator ROBERTS: Yes.  

Mr Cahill: The answer is: yes, there was awareness.  

Senator ROBERTS: It’s about the fractionation.  

Mr Cahill: There was an evolution of scientific knowledge around that time. All of these issues have been canvassed through a range of inquiries that occurred also over time, including a Senate inquiry in 2004 that took evidence about these matters. There was also an inquiry in 2001 by Sir Ninian Stephen, the former Governor General, and that actually led to the creation of the National Blood Authority in 2003. 

Senator ROBERTS: So there’s a problem that caused your [inaudible] formation.  

Mr Cahill: There have been compensation arrangements put in place. There has been access to antivirals for people affected by hepatitis C. The governments collectively across Australia have invested substantially in the safety of Australia’s blood supply since then. I think in the early 1990s or maybe the late eighties—but certainly by the early nineties—as soon as the scientific evidence emerged about the risks associated with HIV, the practices were changed.  

Senator ROBERTS: Okay, let’s skip all of the details—  

Mr Cahill: Drawing analogies with the UK inquiry, there are substantial differences between what occurred during the UK during that period, which has been the subject of the inquiry you’re referring to, and what transpired in Australia.  

Senator ROBERTS: Can the government clarify its stance on the handling of the infected blood scandal, particularly in light of the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories’ decision to delay the implementation of viral inactivation or heat treatment for factor IX until 1993?  

Mr Cahill: I don’t think there is evidence that that’s what occurred.  

Senator Gallagher: I think we’ll take that on notice.  

Senator ROBERTS: That’s fine.  

Senator Gallagher: If there’s anything we can provide you, Senator Roberts—I’m not sure we will be, but let’s just see.  

Senator ROBERTS: Is it true that this delay occurred despite global practices by other manufacturers, such as British plasma laboratories, in heat treatment for hepatitis C, from 1985 onwards, to provide heat treated products to safeguard against this virus?  

Mr Cahill: I think the inquiry’s concluded that Australia was one of the first countries to respond to the emergence of the new virus.  

Senator ROBERTS: What actions are being taken to identify those Australians now at risk of having received tainted blood when the blood should have been safe? Other countries had it safe. We didn’t.  

Mr Cahill: I don’t accept that premise.  

Senator Gallagher: I’m not accepting that proposition. I think we have very safe systems here.  

Senator ROBERTS: We might have now, but we didn’t then. It was neglected and people are crippled as a result of that. That’s what I’m after. Some of my constituents are seriously in trouble through neglect. It’s time for those involved in this horrendous scandal to come clean. Why are we burying this? Why aren’t we looking?  

Senator Gallagher: Again, I don’t agree. The evidence that you’ve just been given would indicate an alternative view on that. Perhaps there’s a way that we can send you all the links, for all the reviews and things that have been done, and inquiries into it and the responses to those, and you can have a see.  

Senator ROBERTS: That would be fine, thank you. 

Question on Notice – No. 745

Senator ROBERTS: What actions are being taken to identify those Australians now at risk of having received tainted blood when the blood should have been safe? Other countries had it safe. We didn’t.

Mr Cahill: I don’t accept that premise.

Senator Gallagher: I’m not accepting that proposition. I think we have very safe systems here.

Senator ROBERTS: We might have now, but we didn’t then. It was neglected and people are crippled as a result of that. That’s what I’m after. Some of my constituents are seriously in trouble through neglect. It’s time for those involved in this horrendous scandal to come clean. Why are we burying this? Why aren’t we looking?

Senator Gallagher: Again, I don’t agree. The evidence that you’ve just been given would indicate an alternative view on that. Perhaps there’s a way that we can send you all the links, for all the reviews and things that have been done, and inquiries into it and the responses to those, and you can have a see.

Senator ROBERTS: That would be fine, thank you.

Answer

The safety of Australia’s blood supply during the 1980s was examined through the 2004 Senate Inquiry into Hepatitis C and the Blood Supply in Australia. The full report, ‘Hepatitis C and the Blood Supply in Australia’, is available at www.aph.gov.au.

The Australian Government has implemented a range of initiatives consistent with the Senate Community Affairs References Committee’s recommendations including ongoing funding for the Australian Red Cross Lifeblood’s (Lifeblood) Lookback program, which investigates infections possibly transmitted through blood transfusion. More information on Lifeblood’s Lookback program is available at www.lifeblood.com.au/blood/blood-testing-and-safety.

Further Government initiatives include implementing national strategies and programs to address blood borne viruses, including hepatitis C, and subsidising medicines to treat hepatitis C and other blood borne viruses through the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS). Since 2016, the Government has invested over $7 billion to provide access to curative direct acting antiviral medicines through the PBS, to all eligible Australians regardless of how they acquired hepatitis C or their current circumstances.

Labor refuses to call a Royal Commission into COVID, because they’ve already been given $1 million in donations from Big Pharma.

One Nation is calling for a COVID Royal Commission now, to ensure we never repeat the same mistakes.