Thousands of casual miners working in Central Queensland and the Hunter Valley are each owed, on average, around $33,000 per year in back pay, making them victims of Australia’s largest wage theft.
During my discussion with Ms. Booth and Mr. Scully, I inquired about the calculator that people can use to determine if they are being paid correctly under an Agreement or Award. It is crucial for workers to be paid at least the award rate of pay.
Ms. Booth described the calculator as an interactive template designed to cover all the awards.
An analysis of five significant labour hire coal mining enterprise agreements operating in Queensland and the Hunter Valley, all involving the CFMEU, revealed that all five agreements underpaid the award – see below. I also asked Ms. Booth to provide information on how many requests for assistance had been made relating to underpayments by the Chandler Macleod Group regarding the black coal industry.
It’s worth noting that in the Black Coal Mining Industry Award, there are no rates of pay specified for casuals, raising questions about how so-called “casuals” can use the FWO pay calculator.
The Five Agreements that Underpaid the Award
Per Person – Per Year – On Average
The Core Staff Enterprise Agreement 2018
$22,600
The FES Enterprise Agreement 2018
$27,000
The Workpac Enterprise Agreement 2019
$33,500
The Chandler Macleod Agreement 2020
$39,340
The TESA Group agreement 2022
$40,000
Transcript
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for being here again, Ms Booth and Mr Scully.
Ms Booth: A great pleasure, Senator Roberts.
Senator ROBERTS: I refer to the Fair Work Ombudsman website and the black coal mining industry award that asks ‘Pay and entitlements less than the award?’ The Fair Work Ombudsman’s answer is, and I quote,
Employees must be paid at least award pay rates and entitlements.
There’s another instruction or invitation:
If your pay rates are less than the award, go to Help resolving workplace issues to follow our step by step guide on how you can fix it.
Does the Fair Work Ombudsman have a standard process or template it uses to assess whether an employee is being paid less than the award?
Ms Booth: The Fair Work Ombudsman has a pay calculator that allows anyone—an employee or an employer—to provide information as requested. It calculates the correct award rate. That is the case for all sectors.
Senator ROBERTS: So it doesn’t have a template, but an individual can step his or her way through it?
Ms Booth: I think the pay calculator could be described as a template. But it’s interactive. It’s a series of smart forms that you complete and then you get a response at the end which tells you what the award rate is. For further information on the pay calculator, I could turn to my supporters here. Mr Scully, would you like to talk more about the pay calculator for Senator Roberts?
Mr Scully: We call it PACT, which is pay and conditions tool. It is an online calculator that has hundreds and thousands of pay combinations and calculations that can be provided and is tailored to the particular award and classification and the like that the user keys in. It is a very popular tool. I think last financial year, something like 6.4 million people used it. There were something like 7.1 million pay calculations provided, I think, for the year, so it’s widely used by the community.
Senator ROBERTS: So there’s a template that an individual can attempt to check?
Mr Scully: Correct.
Senator ROBERTS: Is that tailored to cover pay rates subject to the coverage of the black coal mining industry award and the rosters that are used in Central Queensland and Hunter Valley?
Mr Scully: It covers all awards, Senator.
Senator ROBERTS: I know it is a very complex situation involving the 12-hour rosters in the Hunter Valley and Central Queensland.
Mr Scully: I would need to check that. I don’t know that it would go to the rosters. It is more awards and classifications. It goes to weekday rates and weekends and shift penalties and the like.
Senator ROBERTS: It’s a very complex roster. People have difficulty. Would the Fair Work Ombudsman agree to undertake an assessment with regard to the application of coal enterprise agreements and provide the outcomes to me?
Ms Booth: The Fair Work Ombudsman certainly will respond to any employee who has a question. We will provide information.
Senator ROBERTS: Is that current employees or can they be past employees?
Ms Booth: I will ask Mr Scully to answer that question on the basis that the info line is available to anyone. We don’t ask people to verify their employment status. I’m going to say that anyone can ring the info line and ask a question. Would that be right, Mr Scully? You would not have to be an employee to ring the info line and ask a question? We don’t seek to verify people’s employment status?
Mr Scully: That is correct.
Senator ROBERTS: I wasn’t thinking about calling up myself. I was thinking about past people who have left the industry but have been underpaid dramatically.
Ms Booth: So when a call comes, information is given. If that information doesn’t satisfy the caller and the caller still has a dispute that they regard as unresolved, we call it a request for assistance. We identify that and we move it through to an assessment team. That assessment team will speak directly with the employer and the employee and attempt to resolve the matter. I think you also know that it will go forward beyond that through inspector support to our investigator and inspectors to conduct investigations should it not be resolved by the assessment team. That is the pathway.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. By the way, a team of workplace lawyers, consultants and coalminers reviewed and analysed five significant labour hire coal mining enterprise agreements and the work roster that are operating in Queensland and the Hunter Valley. The CFMEU and the Mining and Energy Union were involved in, or were a party to or signed off on, all five agreements. The Fair Work Commission approved all five agreements. The enterprise agreements all underpay the award. The core staff agreement, for example, 2018 enterprise agreement yearly underpayment is estimated at $22,600. The FES agreement 2018 yearly underpayment is estimated at $27,500. The WorkPac agreement 2019 yearly underpayment is estimated at $33,500. The Chandler Macleod agreement 2020 yearly underpayment of casuals is estimated at $39,341. The TESA Group agreement 2022 yearly underpayment was estimated at over $40,000. But let’s come back. Between 2012 and the present day, could you please provide the number of requests for assistance made regarding underpayments by the Chandler Macleod group relating specifically to the black coal mining industry award and associated enterprise agreements?
Ms Booth: I think we’d have to take a question like that on notice. We collect information at the info line on a range of demographics. I wouldn’t be sure whether we could go to that degree of disaggregation. I think it is important to reinforce that the Fair Work Ombudsman enforces the law as it exists. As you know, a fair work instrument includes an enterprise agreement that has been approved by the Fair Work Commission. We don’t play a role in interrogating the approvability or otherwise of such an instrument. Once it is in existence, we must take it on its face value.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. You can take it on notice. Again, in relation to Chandler Macleod and the black coal mining industry award, how many requests for assistance were closed with the following general determinations—under the award, you can be casual; the 2007 workplace agreement covered your employment; or the insertion of section 15A into the Fair Work Act determines you are a casual? You can take that on notice, too, please.
Ms Booth: It would certainly be a degree of detail that I do not have at my fingertips. Is there anything, Mr Scully, you can say about that?
Mr Scully: I can only advise that from July 2019 to 31 December 2023, we resolved 30 disputes that relate to the coal mining industry. I haven’t got any further details about that. There are 30 over the last 4½ years.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you, Mr Scully, that’s in coal. This is specifically Chandler Macleod and the black coal mining industry award. You will have to take this on notice too. How many proceeded to the investigation stage? Have any of them not been formally closed? If so, which ones? Thank you, Mr Scully. Thank you, Ms Booth. Thank you, Chair.
https://img.youtube.com/vi/3-XqCQp-264/maxresdefault.jpg7201280Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2024-03-06 16:22:452024-03-14 17:14:59Casual Wage Theft and the Fair Work Ombudsman
I spoke in support of Senator Lambie’s Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment (Protecting Vulnerable Workers) Bill 2024. For context, I provided the senate chamber with the facts on Australia’s largest wage theft. This casual labour rort stole on average around $33,000 per casual coal miner per year in central Queensland and the Hunter Valley through Chandler Macleod Group, a subsidiary of a foreign multinational, Recruit Holdings — one of the world’s largest labour hire companies.
How did this happen? For a decade, CFMEU bosses have betrayed the coal miners they are supposed to protect. The Fair Work Commission has unfairly betrayed workers by approving dodgy Enterprise Agreements. Meanwhile, the Fair Work Ombudsman, the last line of defence for the workers, has sat on its hands and refused to act. Consultants and industry lawyers, some with over 40 years of experience in industrial relations prepared a report looking into this casual wage theft. They were stunned by what they’ve now confirmed is happening across our coal industry.
The current Queensland government is trying to prevent the development of the new Red Union that is now making inroads into the previous membership of failed mainstream unions like the QNU and QPU that have failed to adequately represent their members in disputes with employers. Membership has passed 18,000 and is rapidly growing. What’s at stake here is the issue of freedom of choice. There are thousands of women working within the Textile Clothing Footware sector which is currently part of the CFMEU. These women need to be able to choose who they wish to be represented by and they should be able to make those choices by secret ballot. This is necessary to ensure that intimidation by certain union leader thugs is kept to a minimum.
I support this Bill as it is good legislation, supports vulnerable women and is a further step in recognising the rights to freedom of choice in determining an important issue of autonomy for women. The ability of these women to choose to demerge from the CFMEU must be confirmed.
Transcript
Thousands of casual miners working in central Queensland or the Hunter Valley are each owed, on average, for wage theft, backpay of around $33,000 per year for every year of service. That’s $33,000 per year. If you’re a casual, you’re likely to be owed an estimated $33,000 per year as a victim of Australia’s largest wage theft. How? It’s due to the CFMEU union bosses betraying and controlling workers, because the CFMEU was the sole union in coal mining production. When entities lack competition, they tend to behave with impunity due to a lack of accountability. They can do whatever they bloody well want.
We support Senator Lambie’s Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment (Protecting Vulnerable Workers) Bill 2024 because it encourages competition for the unions and gives freedom of choice to workers, and it portrays fairness. I’ll move to Senator Lambie’s excellent bill after closing on the largest wage theft scam, because that illustrates, yet again, the importance of Senator Lambie’s bill to protect workers from unaccountable union bosses.
A team of experienced workplace lawyers, consultants and coalminers reviewed and analysed five significant labour hire coalmining enterprise agreements. The CFMEU were involved in, were a party to, or signed all five agreements. This is the report of these experts. The Fair Work Commission approved all five agreements. The enterprise agreements all underpay the award. For example, for the CoreStaff 2018 enterprise agreement, the yearly underpayment was estimated at $22,623. It gets worse. For the FES 2018 agreement, the yearly underpayment was estimated at $27,563. For the WorkPac 2019 agreement, the yearly underpayment was estimated at $33,555. For the Chandler MacLeod 2020 agreement, the yearly underpayment was estimated $39,341. For the Tesa Group 2022 agreement, the yearly underpayment was estimated at $40,645.
It’s all due to collusion between the CFMEU, labour hire companies and the Fair Work Commission. The CFMEU signed and approved all. The CFMEU agreed in writing—we’ve seen the letter—to not pursue complaints that workers raised. The Chandler MacLeod group, one of the parties to the enterprise agreement, is a subsidiary of the world’s largest labour hire company, Recruit Holdings—a foreign, multinational. How did this happen? For a decade, CFMEU union bosses have betrayed coalminers. The Fair Work Commission has betrayed workers in approving enterprise agreements paying far less than the award, and the Fair Work Ombudsman turned a blind eye to it all and refused to get involved. The CFMEU’s mining division, the Fair Work Commission and some large labour hire companies have colluded to screw workers using enterprise agreements that are unlawful.
As I said, we commissioned an experienced team to investigate Australia’s largest wage theft case involving thousands of miners across the industry for up to a decade. They were stunned at the brazen collusion between the CFMEU union bosses, employers, Fair Work Commission and Fair Work Ombudsman. Some of these consultants and lawyers have over 40 years of experience in industrial relations and were stunned with what they confirmed was happening across our coal industry. The workers’ supposed protectors, the CFMEU union bosses and the government’s Fair Work Commission and Fair Work Ombudsman, have cruelly betrayed workers en masse. I’ve written to the current and former members for the Hunter in federal parliament, to CFMEU union bosses and to Minister Burke. All have done nothing. They buried the issue to protect union bosses. Let’s move to Senator Lambie’s bill. I support Senator Lambie’s bill. The issue she raises is symptomatic of many large unions and the decline of the union movement under unaccountable union bosses, who are tarnishing the movement. Labor’s recent legislation giving enormous power to union bosses will eventually hurt the union movement and unions overall because it entrenches the huge monopoly power of union bosses and removes accountability. The union movement will crumble because of that lack of accountability. Workers will abandon it, as they already are.
An essential freedom of the Australian workplace scene should be the freedom for workers to choose who they want to represent their interests through a choice as to the union they want to join. There are thousands of women in the textile, clothing and footwear union, currently part of the CFMEU. Many of those women have expressed dissatisfaction with the representation the CFMEU provides them through their membership. Unfortunately, many of these members, who often have limited English language proficiency, are handicapped by having experienced exploitation, underpayment, intimidation and poor working conditions. The Labor government, with the Greens, have to date voted to prevent these women from exercising their right to choose to leave the CFMEU. These women are afraid of intimidation after losing their right to an anonymous vote—women afraid, in Australia, of union thugs. This is as a result of the passing of the draconian Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes No. 2) Bill 2023.
As a coalminer working at coalfaces, mostly underground, around Australia, I was a proud union member—back when the coalminers union was the Miners Federation, a strong, honest union. As a mine manager and, later, as an executive general manager, I dealt with many honourable union delegates who strongly spoke for, and served, their members’ interests. The union movement has a proud history, and in Australia that includes a proud history of women playing a lead role in the movement. It’s a fact, though, that as a result of some powerful union bosses who could only be described as cowardly, dishonest thugs or possibly criminals there’s been a decline in union membership and subsequent loss of union power in the Australian industrial landscape. This means a loss of membership funds and other moneys that have historically flowed to the Labor Party. Labor hates to lose campaign money.
The TCF women do not wish to be members of the CFMEU and to be associated with an organisation that has such a poor reputation and is not providing service in exchange for union fees. In recent years, the CFMEU have been caught selling out their members to benefit large, multinational labour hire firms and enrich the CFMEU, at the members’ expense, by unprecedented wage theft.
The current Queensland government is trying to prevent the development of the new Red Union, which is making inroads into the previous membership of failed mainstream unions, like the Queensland Nurses and Midwives Union and the Queensland Teachers Union, which have failed to adequately protect and represent their members in disputes with employers. Red Union membership is now almost 19,000 and has rapidly grown in the Nurses Professional Association of Queensland and the Teachers Professional Association, and now it’s growing in every state around our country. Teachers and nurses, not union bosses, lead the new and rapidly growing union. Fees are around half those of the Queensland Teachers Union and the Queensland Nurses and Midwives Union, which provide inferior service and donate membership funds to the Queensland Labor machine. That’s why the Queensland Labor government has stepped in with an attempt to ban the Red Union—to protect the Queensland Teachers Union and the Queensland Nurses and Midwives Union and the millions of dollars flowing to the Labor machine’s election campaign. So we have the Queensland Labor government trying to ban the formation of a new union because it nobbles them. Queensland union bosses publicly and openly showed their power in appointing the new Premier of Queensland. We saw it in Queensland: union bosses saying who would be the next Premier. It’s Steven Miles.
What’s at issue here is freedom of choice. These women need to be able to choose who they wish to represent them and should be able to make those choices in a secret ballot. This is necessary to ensure that intimidation from thugs is kept to a minimum. I support this bill and I commend Senator Lambie for it. It’s solid, effective legislation. It supports vulnerable women and is a further step both in recognising the right to freedom of choice and in determining an important issue of autonomy for women and for all workers. The ability of these women to choose to demerge from the CFMEU must be confirmed. Union membership must be voluntary and there must be freedom of choice as to who someone’s representative should be. That is for the benefit of the union movement because, with choice comes competition and then accountability.
We support this bill that gives women and workers rights that union bosses have stolen. We call for a public and parliamentary discussion on restoring industrial justice and basic human rights and freedom of choice to workers. We applaud Senator Lambie for her bill as another step towards freeing workers from powerful union bosses.
This is a case of the Ombudsman adding insult to injury.
In the May 2023 Senate Estimates I asked the Fair Work Ombudsman how their office decided that Ready Workforce could be a person’s employer when payslips, PAYG summaries, employer Super contributions and all ATO records indicated that the true employer was Chandler MacLeod, a labour hire company.
Apparently the investigation is continuing.
Transcript
Senator Roberts: Ms Parker, is it true that, prior to your position at the Fair Work Ombudsman, you were the assistant secretary for the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations?
Ms Parker: I was Deputy Secretary, Workplace Relations Group.
Senator Roberts: In your role as a deputy secretary of the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations, were you aware of the appropriation monies that the department sent to Coal Long Service Leave?
Ms Parker: Yes, I was.
Senator Roberts: Were you involved in the production of documents table for the annual financial reports for the department whilst in that role?
Ms Parker: In terms of the Coal Long Service Leave, that agency provide its own reports and its own financial reports.
Senator Roberts: But, given that you were the deputy, wouldn’t you have taken an interest in something that was worth a few hundred million dollars?
Ms Parker: We’re going back a way, but it was part of the overall reporting, for example under the annual report. But they were independent, in that sense. They were an agency that managed their own resources, so we didn’t have—
Senator Roberts: But you compiled the report.
Ms Parker: No, not for their own financial—
Senator Roberts: Not for their part, but you compiled their report into your department’s.
Ms Parker: That’s generally speaking. I’m just trying to think back. Our own finance area within the department looked at every single outcome, so, while they sat under the workplace relations auspice, if you like, the financial arrangements and et cetera were done through our finance and corporate areas in the department.
Senator Roberts: Is it true that the Fair Work Ombudsman reported Simon Turner to New South Wales Police recently about a document?
Ms Parker: I’ve not heard that.
Senator Roberts: He was contacted by the police. He wondered what was going on, and the police said it was in regard to an email he sent. I think it was to Robert Evans, Fair Work Ombudsman investigator. Mr Turner then read the email to the police. The police then said he’d been through the wringer and ended by saying there was no need to see him. Why did the Fair Work Ombudsman involve the police?
Mr Scully: I recall the email. I looked at it. I haven’t got a copy of it here, but I was concerned about the language in it, and I was concerned about Mr Turner’s welfare based on that language. So I asked for a welfare check to be done by the New South Wales police on that person.
Senator Roberts: Given what he’s been through, I have the utmost admiration for Mr Turner. He’s very, very solid.
Ms Parker: He is, but there are times when we get aggressive, abusive emails—
Senator Roberts: I’m not criticising Mr Scully.
Ms Parker: That was this occasion. I take those things very seriously, and it’s not acceptable. I understand he has had some stress—
Senator Roberts: Stress? Wow.
Ms Parker: I understand, but it doesn’t entitle him to be aggressive towards Fair Work Ombudsman staff.
Mr Scully: If I can clarify, that was for a welfare check. I asked for a welfare check on Mr Turner to be arranged by the New South Wales police.
Senator Roberts: Thank you.
Mr Scully: To clarify that further, it wasn’t in respect of any interactions he had had with the Fair Work Ombudsman. It was the language within his email. I was actually concerned about his welfare.
Senator Roberts: How long has this investigation been going? I understand it’s been underway since 2018.
Mr Scully: I haven’t got the exact date in front of me, but it has been ongoing. Mrs Volzke might have some more information.
Mrs Volzke: There have been a number of inquiries or requests for assistance made by Mr Turner. The initial one, as I understand it, was subsequently completed, but then there are other concerns that he has more recently raised about pay slips, as you know. That investigation is still ongoing, but we hope to be in a position to finalise it shortly.
Senator Roberts: I hope so.
Chair: I’m a bit reluctant to be talking in detail about an individual. If it’s helpful, Senator Roberts, maybe we can talk about the particular case you’re taking forward, rather than the individual. I also might have a bit of a discussion with the committee. I don’t think this should be on—
Senator Roberts: Mr Turner has given me his permission to divulge his name so that the case is clear.
Ms Parker: I would say that I know that you may not agree but the Fair Work Ombudsman staff have put an enormous amount of time and effort into this matter and have taken it very seriously. It’s a complex issue—
Senator Roberts: Very complex.
Ms Parker: and I hope you’d appreciate we have been doing a lot of work to try to assist. It has been going on, as you said, for some time, but it’s not a simple matter.
Senator ROBERTS: Perhaps you could ask that question of yourself after I ask the next few questionsinvolving one of your Fair Work Ombudsman investigators. Mr Robert Evans has a—
Ms Parker: Sorry, Senator; I thought we had agreed we wouldn’t talk about individuals. I’m very happy for you to talk about an inspector. I’d really prefer you didn’t name him. There have been some issues, as I mentioned before, including some aggressive behaviour towards my inspector.
Senator Cash: Chair, I don’t think Senator Roberts deliberately did that—
Chair: Absolutely not.
Senator Cash: but I think you are right, going forward, given the nature of the issues.
Chair: Yes. Given the nature of the issues that have been raised and the answers that have been given, can we be very mindful of the appropriateness of going into any details.
Senator Roberts: Is it true that a Fair Work Ombudsman investigator has an ATO document that states Ready Workforce was not the aggrieved miner’s employer?
Mrs Volzke: As I said, there is still an ongoing investigation in relation to the tax documentation and how that goes to the true employing entity of a particular individual. As you know, we’ve been looking at those issues and trying to engage not only with Mr Stephens and Mr Turner but also with the ATO. I’ll have to take on notice the question about that particular document that you refer to. I have to say I have no knowledge of it.
Senator Roberts: Is it true that the Fair Work Ombudsman investigator has been given a copy of a court decision that states that Chandler Macleod was the true employer of the aggrieved miner and not Ready Workforce?
Mrs Volzke: The name of the case escapes me at the moment, but what I would say is that that was a case that was particular to the individual in that matter. It’s not necessarily the case that you can extrapolate from those findings in that matter about a particular person and say that that must mean the same conclusions will be made in relation to—
Senator Roberts: I would strongly disagree with you. You’re entitled to your opinion. It’s quite clear tome. Can you explain how a Fair Work Ombudsman investigator could come to a decision that Ready Workforce, ABN 037, was the aggrieved miner’s employer?
Mrs Volzke: Again, talking at a broad, general level, whenever we’re trying in one of our investigations towork out who the employer is, the first place to start is always: what is the contract of employment that is enteredinto? It is from that that we work out where the entitlements flow. That’s on the basis of a number of High Courtcases—Rossato, Jamsek, Personnel—but even the current definition of casual in section 15A of the Fair WorkAct essentially gets you to the same place.
Senator Roberts: I understand you have to check, but the Fair Work Ombudsman’s decision is in direct conflict with all the evidence documents given to the Fair Work Ombudsman investigator, which showed payslips, PAYG summaries, tax documents, employer super contributions, Coal LSL contributions and all ATO records held by the aggrieved miner, who was paid his wages by Chandler Macleod using ABN 052.
Mrs Volzke: Again, we obviously don’t want to get into details, but you start with the proposition that, on the basis of the documentation at the time, that employment was entered into. Unless there’s a variation or some other sham or estoppel mechanism that casts doubt on that, those other matters don’t necessarily displace that. You’ll also know that we have made inquiries with the relevant employer in this case, as well, to seek an explanation about the discrepancy in relation to their ABN being on those pay slips.
Senator Roberts: The court ruling also stated that Chandler Macleod, ABN 052, was the true employer. The court affidavit showed that the mine contract was with Chandler Macleod and all payments from invoices from the mine went to Chandler Macleod, ABN 052. On this basis, I can’t see how it’s possible at all for your Fair Work Ombudsman investigator to arrive at a decision that is in direct conflict with all of this evidence.
Mrs Volzke: Again, Senator, I think you’re quoting that particular court case, which was in relation to another individual, and drawing conclusions. I would reiterate what Ms Parker has already said. We are doing the most thorough investigation that we can. We understand the concerns that have been raised. I don’t really know—
Senator Roberts: They’ve been raised, alright—with the Fair Work Commission; with the Fair Work Ombudsman; with the CFMMEU in the Hunter; with the local Labor MPs, state and federal; with the Attorney-General’s Department twice; with senators; with coalmines insurance; with Coal LSL; with state departments looking after safety, reporting injuries, workers compensation—
Mrs Volzke: It may well be in those—
Senator Roberts: He’s taken it up with me, and I’m the only one who has persisted. And it’s taken me four years to get to this point.
Mrs Volzke: It may well be that, in terms of what you’ve described, particularly in labour hire industrieswhere there are complex employment and corporate arrangements, it may be easier for there to be complexity inworking out who the employer is. I think these are issues that the government is looking at also, in the context of’same job, same pay’.
Senator Roberts: A hell of a lot of government departments have looked at it, and they just don’t do anything. They don’t come back with a ‘yes’ or ‘no’. They just don’t do anything, and yet they’ve given him assurances along the way. There have been so many parasites who’ve made money off these people along the way.
Mrs Volzke: Senator, as I’ve told you as well, it’s our job as the regulator to apply the law, and that’s what we’re doing our very best to do here.
Senator Roberts: Well, it’s a bloody slow process. This man and one of his mates, who’s in a similar position, have been to the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations recently and had two briefingswith their senior people. The last was two weeks ago, and they still haven’t got back to him—not even anything.They were impressed with what he said and what he gave—but nothing. So I’d like to table this document, Chair.It’s a letter from Chandler Macleod to the CFMEU in the Hunter Valley.
Chair: You have another four minutes, Senator Roberts.
Senator Roberts: That should do it. This is a letter from Chandler Macleod to the CFMEU Northern Mining and New South Wales Energy District. That’s Hunter Valley CFMEU, if you like, with a few mines outside the Hunter Valley. I’ll read out clause (c), which is at the top of the second page:The CFMEU and Chandler Macleod would present this EA—that’s enterprise agreement—to employees for their consideration, noting that both parties support the approval of the proposed EA and a vote would beheld as soon as possible, and as early as 7 May 2015 seeking employees to endorse the proposed EA—There’s an understanding of an agreement between the CFMEU in Hunter and Chandler Macleod, the employer. Clause (d) states:The CFMEU would agree—this is what the employer is saying, in their understanding—to cease from any current and future actions and claims (in its own right or on behalf of members) directed towards ventilating and agitating its view that employees currently engaged by Chandler Macleod companies as casuals to perform black coal mining production work may be entitled to “leave and other entitlements” associated with permanent employment or that Chandler Macleod is not paying employees their “lawful terms and conditions”. The union obviously agreed with this, because it went further. The union and Chandler Macleod are clearly colluding to strip entitlements and pay off workers at Mount Arthur mine. If it is the case that unions, purporting to represent miners, are actually colluding with employers and if all these government agencies are not doing their job over many years, what the hell does this man do?
Ms Parker: I have not finished, and we have been—
Senator Roberts: I certainly haven’t. I’ve got three aims. I’ll tell you about them later, if you like.
Ms Parker: We anticipate being in a position to finalise these in the near future, as we’ve said, and we’re still working on this. I’m sorry it’s so frustrating, but we have not stopped looking at it.
Senator Roberts: It’s more than frustrating. It’s damn painful. It’s hurting a lot of people in Central Queensland and in the Hunter and elsewhere.
Ms Parker: We understand, but we do have to apply the law as it stands, and that’s what we’re trying to do.
Senator Roberts: Are you aware of the many connections between various involved entities? For example, the lawyer representing the CFMEU in a case was Jennifer Short, who’s on the Coal Long Service Leave Board. She was employed as the CFMEU lawyer. These are just some of the interactions. There are many interactions between mining industry groups, mining companies, labour hire companies and the CFMEU in the Hunter. Are you aware of the many interconnections? You are now.
Ms Parker: Well, I think so. Certainly it’s not particularly relevant to our investigation, but it’s context.
Mrs Volzke: Certainly. Senator, the two clauses that you read out from that Chandler Macleod letter—when an agreement has been approved by the Fair Work Commission, which I’m assuming is what occurred here, then we take it as a given that it’s gone through the processes that need to occur within the commission. I know that Mr Furlong—
Senator Roberts: Mr Turner’s evidence shows that it hasn’t gone through correctly. It could not have gone through correctly, because it doesn’t comply.
Ms Parker: We heard our evidence this morning with the Fair Work Commission on that, which is theirresponsibility. We did listen to that.
Senator Roberts: Minister, quite clearly, the Fair Work Act has failed. It needs not just comprehensive reform; it needs replacement. We need something that is short, simple and clear, that workers can understand, that small businesses can understand and that is actually useful not to the industrial relations club but to the actual workers who need to be protected. Workers like these guys that we’re protecting in Central Queensland and the Hunter Valley are without any protection right now. What’s going on with these people is stuff that would come from a Third World country or Australia 100 years ago. It’s unfathomable. I was shocked when I saw it. What is even more shocking now is that no-one can address it. That’s the Fair Work Act and its systems.
Senator Watt: Senator Roberts, you’ve heard from Ms Parker that the ombudsman is investigating thesematters. But, as I said to you before, the government agrees that the Fair Work Act needs a major overhaul tobetter protect the rights of workers and to close loopholes that exist at the moment, many of which you havetalked about. I think, Senator Roberts, you know that I’ve spent a fair bit of time in coalmining regions inQueensland where we’ve seen a lot of exploitation of coalminers, and that was allowed to go on under the formergovernment. So we hope that we can count on your support when it comes to the amendments that we’re puttingforward.
Senator Roberts: You’ll get my support for amendments that actually fix the issue, not prolong it and add more complexity. The problem with this Fair Work Act is its inherent complexity. That’s what has enabled the IR club, some union boss, some large unions, industry groups, employers, consultants, HR practitioners, lawyers and bureaucrats to feed off this monster. It’s the loopholes in the details. If you keep addressing loopholes, you’ll just create more loopholes. We need something that’s gutting the Fair Work Act and replacing it with something for workers and industrial productivity.
The Industrial Relations system in this country is a mess. One Nation is committed to untangling the web of over-regulation.
The Fair Work Ombudsman
The Fair Work Commission Part 1
Fair Work Commission Part 2
For three years I have been raising the issue of casual coal miners being fraudulently dudded out of Long Service Leave entitlements. Finally, I was able to secure an audit into the Coal Long Service Leave Scheme from the previous government. Yet, exactly how much needs to be paid back to casual coal miners is still unclear. We’ll be following this up again at next estimates and ensuring casual workers receive the leave payments they are entitled to.
https://img.youtube.com/vi/myNJXhidJfA/0.jpg360480Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2022-12-21 14:53:412022-12-21 14:53:46Fair Work and Coal LSL at Senate Estimates
The one thing we here again and again from small businesses is that Industrial Relations in this country is simply too confusing. You just about have to be a specialised lawyer to simply employ someone and be across all of the applicable legislation. The awards and language need to be made much simpler if small business has a hope of surviving. A fair day’s wage for a fair day’s work, and a way to punish dodgy employers who dishonestly try to break the rules: that should be the simple basics of industrial relations but we’ve complicated it far too much
Transcript
Senator Roberts.
[Roberts] Thank you Chair.
Thank you again for being here today. My questions cover a broad range. In the Fair Work Commission statement, dated 9th of April, 2021, regarding the Casual Terms Award reviewed 2021. This review must be completed by 27th of September, 2021. Are you on target for this date? And what has been identified as going over that date so far?
[Luby] Uh…
[Furlong] Ms. Luby
Thanks Mr. Furlong, I’ll take this one as well. Thanks Senator. Yes, the Fair Work Commission is definitely on target for that. That’s a date that was set in the statute and where we’re working towards that. So the Commission has issued a number of information papers outlining the range of casual terms that are found in Modern Awards. A full bench has been listed for hearing to consider a small group of Awards that cover either a large range of employees or have sort of quirky casual terms. And so that’ll be some, I guess some principles or precedent will be set by that full bench and then that will be applied to the remaining Modern Awards. So we’re working through that.
[Roberts] Okay.
With respect.
[Roberts] Thank you. Now from the Casual Terms Award Review 2021, at 12 and 13 of the Fair Work Commission Statement, I note that the Black Coal Mining Industry Award, MA000001, has not been included in the initial review. Yet, the background of that is that there’s a lot of confusion and uncertainty, in the black coal mining industry, because there was no provision in the award for casuals on production. But nonetheless, the Hunter Valley CFMEU did a deal to get that into the Enterprise Agreements. So that meant because there was no award provision, there was no, basically anybody under that EA was locked into permanent casual rort and they couldn’t get out. Now with the legislation that the government introduced in March, there is a pathway to permanent work for all casuals, but I think it needs to be clarified as quickly as possible. Many everyday Australians think it should have priority, the Black Coal Mining Award should have priority for definition of a casual mine production worker, given the harm it’s done to so many casual black coal miners, the lack of that definition. Can you ensure that this Award is reviewed promptly, please?
Senator, well, obviously it’s not for me to determine what order that the Awards are looked at. That’s a matter for the President and full bench presiding over that. I’d just like to clarify that the purpose of these proceedings are to determine whether the casual terms in the Awards are compliant or not contradictory with the terms that were introduced in the Supporting Employment Bill. It doesn’t go to whether there are entitlements to casual work in a particular Award. The issue of whether there should be the possibility of casual engagement under the Black Coal Award, was considered as part of the Four Yearly Review. And I think Mr. Furlong spoke into that previous estimates and it’s been covered in some of our Questions on Notice. That’s perhaps a different issue that could be raised at, and it could be raised at any time, if the parties were to seek to include a casual term for those production employees under the Black Coal Award.
[Roberts] Okay, so there’s nothing to stop a casual worker, who’s on permanent casual rort at the moment, thanks to Enterprise Agreements, from actually casual conversion, if they’re offered that conversion now?
No, I’m sorry Senator. There is no provision for casual employment for a production employee under the Black Coal Award.
So if I might. My understanding of the legislation it covers, because it’s been placed into National Employment Standards, it applies broader than all the Awards. So if someone is a casual, whether there’s an Award term for casuals or not, then the provisions within the Act will apply. So yes, there is a pathway to conversion because it’s been put into the National Employment Standards.
[Roberts] Okay, so thank you. So it overall
[Luby] Thank you, Mr. Hehir. Sorry.
[Roberts] It overrides the Award. So, people
[Luby] I apologise I apologise Senator for not getting that.
[Roberts] Yeah. So just to be clear Mr. Hehir, the people who are working as casuals, when the changes were made in March, will now have access to conversion once they’re offered?
So that’s my understanding because it’s been placed into the National Employment Standards. It expands beyond the award system and does apply more broadly.
[Roberts] Thank you. Because there are a lot of people cursing Enterprise Agreements that basically locked them into permanent casuals. How long after this review
[O’Neill] If I could get your attention Mr. Roberts. We asked a couple questions yesterday about these matters with the conversion. Under 15 employees, there will be a different
[Hehir] Thank you Senator
[O’Neill] situation.
[Hehir] O’Neill.
[O’Neill] But I guess one of the things that we got yesterday that’s important was it’s a test of reasonableness about whether those coal miners will actually be able to
[Roberts] Oh that test is
[O’Neill] Get
[Roberts] Yeah.
[O’Neill] the reasonableness
[Hehir] I think
[O’Neill] Test. Yep, yep.
[Hehir] reasonableness is the goal Senator O’Neill.
Yep.
[Hehir] Well I’m sure…
[O’Neill] Well it’s it’s gonna matter
[Hehir] Council, Senator Roberts.
[Roberts] In the Fair Work Commission Statement, dated 9th of April, 2021 regarding the Casual Terms Award Review 2021 at 12, I note the hesitancy regarding the definition of simple terms. Can you advise if your concerns over language will hold up the review process or have they been resolved?
No Senator. I think that we’re still on track to meet that deadline of the 27th of September.
[Roberts] Thank you. So we’ve been advocating for a fair go for Australian workers for a while now. Since the last Senate estimates round, can you tell me what due diligence has been put in place for Fair Work Commissioners to use to ensure that the boot analysis improves and that we do not see any more failures like the Chandler MacLeod Northern District of New South Wales Black Coal Mining Agreement of 2015? My understanding is that there was no Enterprise Agreement. The Chandler MacLeod initially employed miners under the Award, where there was no provision for casuals. Then they came up with the Enterprise Agreement and that breached the boot test from what we can work out. So we need to make sure that miners are protected in future with Enterprise Agreements that comply with the boot test. Can you tell me what’s being done like that to make sure there’s no more failures?
Just a couple of things on this, Senator. It’s actually been on notice and to a reasonable sort of extent, in relation to the decision about the Chandler MacLeod Agreement, it was approved by Senior Deputy President Harrison. And while the decision was short, she did go to the boot, the analysis of the boot. Ms. Luby can provide further and better detail on it. But every agreement application that is made to the Commission undergoes a very comprehensive, administrative checklist and was performed by specially skilled staff to ensure that the statutory requirements and pre-lodgement provisions are satisfied. And in terms of Ms. Luby saying that 95% of those applications are made and provided to members within five days, that is the process that is undertaking that first step.
[Roberts]Okay, I’m having a lot of trouble hearing you or understanding. Could you just explain, perhaps you could explain. I understand that you’ve given us a reassurance that the process is going to be followed. Could you please explain the boot analysis process? What are the main steps that the commission now undertakes and is it applied appropriately to each case?
The answer to that question is easy, yes. There’s a legislative checklist that is completed by as I said specially trained staff at the Commission. The template of that checklist is available on our website as well. If you’d like to have a look at it, we can certainly table it for you to have a look at. Bit it is a consistent checklist that is performed for every Enterprise Agreement application that is made.
[Roberts] Okay, thank you. I heard it clearly that time, so we’ll check that checklist ourself. We’ve heard that some union bosses are saying that it is the worker’s responsibility not the unions for what is put to the Commission in relation to Enterprise Agreements. Can you tell me then how you ensure that the workers themselves are happy with the Agreement? And what checks do you have to make sure that you’re satisfied that it’s the workers that are happy with the Enterprise Agreement?
Ms. Luby might want to add to this. Effectively there’s an access period, a statutory access period, Senator. That all, every employee who’s to be covered by that Enterprise Agreement has got access to that Agreement and that the employer has gone to reasonable lengths to explain the terms of the impact of that Enterprise Agreement. Ms. Luby would you like to add anything to that?
Sure, Mr. Furlong. So I guess there’s a few strands to it that the member who assesses the application will look at whether the terms and the effect of the terms of the Agreement were effectively explained to the employees. That’s an important test that’s been the subject of a number of federal court decisions and quite clearly laid out, in terms of the level of detail that must be explained to the employees to give them an opportunity to vote in an informed way. And then clearly there is the vote itself, so that there must be a majority of employees who vote for the agreement, who vote in favour of it. So they’re the primary tests.
[Roberts] Thank you.
We’re also quite transparent about the fact that an application has been made. So an employee will have an opportunity to make a submission to the Commission if they choose to do so.
[Roberts] So what recourse do workers have through the Commission or anywhere else, where a union boss fails to do what they promise to bargain for or where they might ignore workers’ needs in favour of their own interests? How do we make sure union bosses’ held accountable in this process for approving an EA, Enterprise Agreement?
I think Senator, the Commission, as I said, we are quite transparent in terms of when an application is lodged. It’s always published on our website immediately. So it’s available for the employees to see before the application is approved. And during that time it’s not uncommon for an employee to contact the Commission and their email or letter that they put in will be sent directly to the member who’s dealing with the application. So if they’ve raised any concerns that will be brought to the member’s attention.
[Roberts] So what you’re saying is, it seems reasonable to me. What you’re saying is that if an employee has concerns about the employer, or the union bosses, that they need to go and check themselves and take responsibility for the Enterprise Agreement themselves before they vote.
Um..
[Roberts] Vote, inform themselves
[Luby] I guess
[Roberts] So they vote in an informed way.
Yes, definitely and it’s the employer’s responsibility to inform them of the effect of the Agreement.
[Roberts] Thank you.
[Luby] So that’s an quite a proactive step that the employer needs to take.
[Roberts] Okay. Have they been
[Furlong] Senator may I also, sorry. I may also be of assistance. If an Agreement is reached, or past its normal expiry date, a party of the employees covered by that Enterprise Agreement, that is past its normal expiry date, can make an application for that Agreement to be terminated.
[Roberts] Okay, so it gets fairly complicated, doesn’t it, quickly? Have there been any cases regarding casual conversion put to the Commission for determination since the changes to the Fair Work Act earlier this year? And if so, how many And what have been the issues and the results?
Senator, I can take that one. There’s been one application so far, under the new section 66M, that application was an employee in the social and community services sector. It was only recently received and it’s been allocated to a member for hearing.
[Roberts] Okay, so one application for an appeal to conversion. Correct?
Yes.
[Roberts] Thank you.
That’s correct.
[Roberts] Now moving onto another topic. Have wage theft cases increased or decreased in the last 12 months?
That’s a matter for the Fair Work Ombudsman. I understand that they’re giving evidence later this evening.
[Roberts] Yes, we’ve got some questions for them. Thank you. Small business owners frequently find that the cost of being away from work to defend a sometimes spurious, unfair dismissal case or other complaint is too much and they end up paying “go away” money, which everyone knows about, to the employee. What is the Fair Work Commission doing, or what could you do, to help small businesses and small business employees, especially given that they’ve done the heavy lifting during the COVID restrictions and downturn? And many are finding it hard now, both employees and small businesses.
I’m not too sure. I understand that the notes of the term “go away” money, Senator. I can’t say that I necessarily agree with it. There are, we receive approximately 15,000 unfair dismissal applications every year. About 80% of those applications are resolved through agreement, through reconciliation process.
[Roberts] What percentage, sir? I’m sorry.
About 80%.
[Roberts] Thank you.
For those that and the vast majority of them are conducted online, so on the telephone, at a time that hopefully suits both of the parties through that process. And there is no obligation, for the parties, the small business that you’re talking about employers to the employees, and to the applicants to settle but if they arrive at a settlement through that process, then the matter is finalised. They can obviously decide not to settle at that point and have the matter dealt with by a member through arbitration.
[Roberts] Okay.
Ms. Carruthers, anything else you’d like to add to that?
Thank you, Mr. Furlong. Senator I might just add as a useful bit of context, that in about 2/3 of cases where money is paid, it’s for less than $6,000. So they are modest amounts of money that are paid when payments are made. And payments are made in around 80% of matters that are settled.
[Roberts] Yeah, my point is that the Fair Work Act, when it’s printed out is about that thick, laid on its side, it’s that thick. It is so damn complex that employees and employers, don’t know what, small business employers and employees, don’t know where they stand. Many employees right across industry, all sizes of companies, don’t know where they stand and that’s not good enough. So with that, there comes, it’s much easier for one to rort the other, employer to rort the employee, and also for people to avoid accountability. So the complexity of the Fair Work Act is really hindering employment and hindering the employer-employee relationship, which is the fundamental relationship on a workplace. So that’s why I’m asking that question because we know talking to small businesses, listening to them, that they are not hiring people at times because of the complexity and their fear of what will happen. And we’ve got to remove that.
Senator there is a part of your question that we didn’t get to is about what we can do or what we are doing. There are a couple of very large projects that are underway at the moment to improve the services of the Commission. One of them, and it’s a very large project, is the redevelopment of our website. And at the moment, the language used on our website is, it’s technical. One of the major change, one of the major improvements, is there’s going to be, the new website is going to be written in very accessible, plain language. We’re aiming for someone with a year level literacy of eight to 10. We’ve also just kicked off a forms redevelopment project that applies or that will be applying data and behavioural insights, so behavioural economic insights. To ensure that the regulatory burden associated with making these applications and that people are informed, as best as they possibly can be, are a part of the process. So we are looking at ways that we can improve our service delivery and we’re acting on them at the moment.
[Roberts] Well, thank you. That’s encouraging. Fundamentally though, the Fair Work Act is highly complex and it doesn’t matter how we dress it up in practical language, it’s still going to be complex. That makes it difficult for both employees and employers to know what they’re accountable for and what their entitlements are. I appreciate you raising that. Thank you. Last questions on just another topic here. Can you please undertake to inform on the status of the Award Modernisation process that you’re undertaking?
You’re referring to the Four Yearly Review of Modern Award are you Senator?
[Roberts] Yes.
Okay. Do you have any questions in particular about the review? It’s a very, very large piece of work.
[Roberts] Is it progressing on schedule?
It is. It’s very close to being finalised. There are a number of common issues and Ms. Luby can talk to that for today’s, but one of the major initiatives that’s still being progressed is the plain language writing or rewriting of a number of Awards that’ve got high, high world reliance. So those Awards that have got a lot of employees covered by them or relying on them to set out their terms and conditions.
[Roberts] So…
Ms. Luby, do you have anything else to add to that?
Certainly. Thanks, Mr. Furlong. Thanks Senator. So the Four Yearly Review has, as you know been going on for a number of years. In terms of the Award specific reviews, there’s only seven Awards that are outstanding of the 122 that we started with. There are five of those Awards that are undergoing what we’re referring to as a plain language review, which goes to the point you were just making, and Mr. Furlong was making, about trying to make the terminology less complex. The others are the Nurse’s Award which is probably, it’s very close to completion. We’re hoping it will be completed by the end of July. A final draught has been published of that Award. And it’s just out for comment to ensure that there are no technical or drafting issues that have been incorporated in it. And the final other Award is the Black Coal Mining Award, where there’s one issue in relation to the interaction between shift work and weekend work penalties and the casual loading for staff employees. There was a conference about that yesterday but I understand the parties couldn’t come to an agreed position, so there’s a further conference scheduled in a couple of weeks.
[Roberts] Okay
So they’re the Award specific issues and then there are a number of common issues across the Awards that have progressed. But again, there’s only a small number of those that are left of the vast number of reviews that were undertaken over the last six years.
[Roberts] So while I see it as tinkering, it is a good step for having modernisation and simplification of the language in particular. So everyone knows where they stand.
https://img.youtube.com/vi/3XfTHqGBUEY/0.jpg360480Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2021-06-03 09:31:192021-06-03 09:31:29Fair Work Commission – Award Modernisation & Small Business
In Senate Estimates today, I continued to pursue the case to support casual coal production workers. I showed the FWO that the hunter valley CFMEU bosses sold out casual mine workers and left them significantly underpaid and unsupported. This union ignored casuals and trapped them in the “permanent casual trap”
The FWO made us all aware that the Fair Work Commission has known about the problem with the lack of a definition for casuals that left them fall through cracks in the IR and WH&S systems. Yet they have done nothing. We stood up for small business and successfully put up and amendment to enable a simpler system for casual conversion for small business.
Transcript
[Chair]
Senator O’Neill could you at least let Senator Roberts.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Thank you all for being here today. First question, in correspondence between myself and the Fair Work Ombudsman, I was disappointed to hear your office repeatedly told casual coal miners that you could not or would not help them, even though their abuses were many. This was because you said that casual black coal miners did not exist, and there’s no provision for them in the award. At this point, the Ombudsman became a part of the problem and not a part of the solution. Why did you not report this gap to the minister or an authority that could fix it? And what can you do to ensure that these sort of abuses by your office and other instrumentalities like Coal LSL do not happen again?
[Ms Parker]
So, senator, we are able to provide basic information around black coal long service leave provision. Is that what we’re taking about?
[Malcolm Roberts]
No we’re talking about the-
[Ms Parker]
Now, my apologies. We’re talking about-
[Malcolm Roberts]
This was about why you would not be able to help them, help black coal mine casual,
[Senator Sandra] Yeah. working casuals in the black coal industry.
[Ms Parker]
Okay. So, has anyone got the… All right then we’ll have a look at… So, in terms of casualization there’s a couple of things happening with this, we’ve been monitoring workpac and rosatto I guess what I would say is we have to… our job is to enforce and apply the law as it stands. And I believe Senator that we have done a lot of work in regards to your requests for assistance, your complaints about the enterprise agreement, the award, the conflict as you say, between the two. And I understand what you have been advised is that you know, once an enterprise agreement is in place it doesn’t have to align directly with the award. So, there’s a contradiction between those two things?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yeah. I guess the heart of my question really goes to, who did you inform? Which ministers did you inform? Which agencies responsible did you inform? Because this was a problem where there’s no classification of casual in the Black Coal Mining Industry Award. Yet the union did a deal with the employer, that vastly decreased pay rates, substantially decreased pay rates, and enabled casuals with no provision for conversion. So, the union basically locked them into casualization forever.
[Ms Parker]
So, Senator the-
[Malcolm Roberts]
So, they were significant problems and I wanna know, what mechanism you either didn’t follow or you need in the future to be given power so, that you can raise these issues with the relevant authorities.
[Ms Parker]
So, senator the relevant authority is the Fair Work Commission, which ratified the enterprise agreement.
[Malcolm Roberts]
That’s true, it did ratify it.
[Ms Parker]
Well, we he had nothing to do with that.
[Malcolm Roberts]
But Mr. Turner and others raised the issue with you that they were locked in by their union which gave them a substandard deal, and the Fair Work Commission approved it. Mr. Turner originally was employed as a casual under the Black Coal Mining Industry Award even though there’s no classification for it. Then he went to what looks to be a dodgy enterprise agreement that the union signed off and the Fair Work Commission signed off.
[Ms Parker]
Quite possibly. So, we regulate agreements and awards that the Fair Work Commission approves, we have no responsibility to alter them or amend them, that’s not our role, not our tribunal.
[Malcolm Roberts]
But if an employee comes to you and says, I’ve got this problem, can you at the moment go to another group, say, look we can’t fix this because it’s sort of locked in by the union and the Fair Work Commission, but this is a problem that needs to be fixed. The casual problem it could have been fixed years ago, should have been fixed.
[Ms Parker]
So, the Fair Work Commission is aware of this issue, yes.
[Malcolm Roberts]
So that’s what you do? You make-
[Ms Parker]
Well, we have no other option because we are there to regulate an agreement that is published, agreed by the Fair Work Commission, or the award.
[Malcolm Roberts]
So, thank you for clarifying. So, if someone was not aware in the Fair Work Commission, you would make them aware? But in this case they were aware.
[Ms Parker]
We do share information with the Fair Work Commission. They are aware of this issue because certainly it’s been running for quite some time.
[Malcolm Roberts]
You’re right it has.
Okay, let’s move on. You may soon be required to prepare, to distribute and to build awareness in regard to the Casual Employment Information Statement, associated with the recent bill that passed, including employment conditions and to educate both business and employees on their rights and obligations. Please detail what you will be doing to ensure integrity and awareness in regard to this information sheet. And also what systems and support will be in place to ensure prompt, clear and informative support for both business and employees?
[Ms Parker]
Certainly. Chief Counsel Financier you can look in it.
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
Senator, Jeremy O’Sullivan, Chief Counsel Fair Work Ombudsman. You’re quite right. When the bill that’s just passed the parliament, receives Royal Assent, I think there’ll be a new Section 125 capital A that will require the Fair Work Ombudsman to draught and prepare and Gazette a Casual Employee Information Statement. That work is well underway. There’s some consultation requirements because that statement is required to just canvas some of the work of the Fair Work Commission. So, under I think it’s Section 682 sub 2 we’re required to just consult on with the Fair Work Commission on that, that’s occurring now. And so I’m very confident that we will be able to publish that statement as required by the legislation when it comes into force, shortly after it comes into force. We’re also consulting with the department, obviously is it’s novel legislation, and we will be there for appropriate to make sure that the department with the administrative responsibility for the act is comfortable with if you like, giving effect to this new provision.
[Malcolm Roberts]
So, that’ll give you the instructions in a way?
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
No, that… Sorry, I’m sorry for interrupting I shouldn’t have done that,
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, that’s fine.
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
But no it’s up to us to form our view on the crick content but obviously we consult with the department. And we are obliged to consult with the Fair Work Commission under the Fair Work Act as it is now.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And then you check with them to make sure the interpretation is correct?
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean-
[Malcolm Roberts]
Okay. That’s good.
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
Well, in as much as… So, I don’t wanna act like… sound like we’re acting on dictation, we have to form our own view and we’re responsible, and as Ms. Parker is often reminds me, unfortunately, the buck stops with her, so, we just make sure… I just make sure that we give our advice so that we’re comfortable. Now, there is a mechanism under the legislation for us to update or change the Information Statement as required. And of course now, if any matters came to light that we thought it could be improved, and just like we do with our Fair Work Information Statement, we improve. In particularly for readability, ’cause this is not to be a document that could only be-
[Malcolm Roberts]
Just a living document.
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
Yeah. That’s okay a good point.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Okay. Will you be doing a separate sheet to ensure that small business employers and employees are aware of the requirement that casual employees working in small businesses have a right to apply for conversion?
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
Indeed. We’re also preparing if you like, complimentary web content to make sure that basically you know, we’re providing a one-stop shop for everything you need to know about this new statement. We’re afraid to ask if I can be of burden, but you know that’s exactly… we’re making sure and striving to make sure that it’s readily accessible and it’s ready to go out as soon as, you know, the legislation receives Royal Assent.
[Malcolm Roberts]
After what I’ve learned in the Hunter in the last two years, what more can the Fair Work Ombudsman do to support casual coal employee… casual employees, especially in regard to both understanding the impact of the recent change and on their right to casual conversion? How much is being invested to ensure that there is a helpline and or accessible information available in regard to casual rights?
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
It’s an excellent question. I was gonna say that this new legislation provides both an opportunity and a challenge for us to deliver on that. So, the proof will be in the pudding.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And there will be arguments. You anticipate there will be arguments with people in larger businesses denied conversion and then the employee wanting to come back later and saying that the denial was not for sound reasons?
And that will be the jurisdiction of the Fair Work Commission,
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
Right.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yeah. But you’ll be in touch with them?
[Ms Parker]
I might just clarify to that a little bit. So, the initial conciliation will be the Fair Work Commission, but any disputes we know would go for the small claims court of the Federal Court.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Thank you.
[Jeremy O’Sullivan]
You’re quite correct mam, thanks.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Will Fair Work Ombudsman inspectors be able to help small businesses with things such as, coaching and support? Because it was small business who did most of the heavy lifting during COVID-19 restrictions imposed by governments around the country. And we want to ensure that they’re not burdened with more red tape and unnecessary administrative costs.
[Ms Parker]
The answers is
Yes. Senator, we’ve put a lot of our resources into supporting small business and we’ll continue to do so. We’re certainly developing material for this but we also have a dedicated small business helpline, and we’ve had 34,000 calls to that this year alone as in the financial year. And we have a small business showcase with a whole range of resources. The small business webpage was visited 50,000 times this year, we’ve got best practise guides and we have… So, we do put a lot of effort into small businesses and we’ll continue to do that. It’s important they understand what their, you know, obligations and rights are.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, I think it’s important just to mention chair, just in finishing up, that we’ve had a lot of contact with small business and small business organisations who are relieved that the bill went through last week, but now they need to make sure it’s implemented properly. So.
https://img.youtube.com/vi/k0BXzvAoxP8/mqdefault.jpg180320Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2021-03-24 15:13:032021-03-25 08:20:55Why didn’t Fair Work raise the alarm on casuals? Fair Work Ombudsman at Senate Estimates
