“I understand the law. What I don’t understand is the science around XX and XY ….”
— Australia’s Sex Discrimination Commissioner, during Senate Estimates.
How can you advise the court on sex-based rights if you don’t understand the science? Seriously!
Transcript
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. I’d now like to go to Dr Cody, and the intervention in Tickle v Giggle, please. Thank you for appearing, Dr Cody. Tickle v Giggle is the case of someone who was born a biological male being stopped from joining a women-only app. What are you arguing in your intervention? How much are you being paid by the taxpayers to go in and bat for biological born and developed men to be allowed into women’s spaces?
Dr Cody: The role that we have within the case Giggle and Tickle is intervention, or amicus curiae: helping the court to understand the interpretation of the Sex Discrimination Act and the amendments from 2013, and also how the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women applies, whether or not there are special measures, and their understanding of section 5 and section 7 of the Sex Discrimination Act. We were given leave by the court to assist them to understand those issues and also the constitutionality of the Sex Discrimination Act. In terms of the cost, we have two counsel who were briefed. Both agreed to appear on a capped fee basis, so that’s a reduced fee. One was paid $13,000, and the other one was paid $10,000.
Senator ROBERTS: What I actually asked, Dr Cody, was how much are you paid by the taxpayers to go in and bat for biological born and developed men?
Dr Cody: My salary is similar to that that you mentioned for Commissioner Sivaraman.
Senator ROBERTS: About $400,000 a year, plus 15.4 per cent super?
Dr Cody: Correct.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. Just so I can be clear, your position is that the law means a biological man who identifies as a transgender woman can enter a female-only space?
Dr Cody: I would question whether or not Roxanne Tickle is not a man. She is a trans woman. She has gone through various processes and has transitioned, and she’s a trans woman. So she has access—or sought access and was provided access—to the Giggle for Girls app, and then was taken off the access to the Giggle for Girls app.
Senator ROBERTS: What sort of chromosomes does she have—XX or XY?
Dr Cody: I can’t answer that.
Senator ROBERTS: You can’t?
Dr Cody: No, I can’t answer that.
Senator ROBERTS: Wow. Can someone who was born with XY chromosomes change to XX chromosomes—a male change to a female?
Dr Cody: I don’t believe so, but I’m not a scientist. There are many variations of chromosomes. There are hormonal variations, there are chromosomal variations, there are genitalia variations—there are a lot of variations which are along a spectrum.
Senator ROBERTS: Would you agree that a piece of legislation can’t change a person’s sex—if born a man, they are a man; if they’re born with XY chromosomes, they’re a man and they stay a man?
Dr Cody: No, I would not agree.
Senator ROBERTS: You don’t agree? If a woman took a case to court today trying to stop a person with a penis who identified as a female going into a women’s bathroom, which side would you be arguing for if you were there as a friend of the court?
Dr Cody: No. I would need to know more facts. I can’t make a judgement on that in particular.
Senator ROBERTS: Coming back to your previous answer, you talked about XX and XY and how you didn’t really know the answer. How can you make a decision on sex?
Dr Cody: The issue around me not being able to identify whether someone has XX or XY is because I haven’t tested them. I’m not a scientist. That’s not my area of expertise.
Senator ROBERTS: If a person was born male, that’s XY. Someone born female is XX.
Dr Cody: Not always.
Senator ROBERTS: No?
Dr Cody: No.
Senator ROBERTS: Can you give me an example of when not?
Dr Cody: Because there are also people who have innate variations of sex characteristics, so they may be identified as male at birth, but in fact later find out that they have XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. So it is more complex than just XX being female and XY being male.
Senator ROBERTS: I’ll agree with that, but it’s a very, very tiny proportion of the population. Someone who was born a man, a boy, has XY chromosomes and cannot change to XX—is that correct?
Dr Cody: If their chromosomes are XY, then I don’t believe their chromosomes can change. But, I repeat, I’m not a scientist, so I haven’t studied whether or not they can change it.
Senator ROBERTS: So, if you’re not a scientist, how do you know which side to take in a court case?
Dr Cody: I’m not taking a side within a court case. Our role is as amicus—that is, to provide clarification and help to the court in understanding the legal issues that are in dispute.
Senator ROBERTS: So how can you clarify if you don’t understand?
Dr Cody: I understand the law. What I don’t understand is the science around the XX and XY, unless the evidence is before the court. So my role is to assist the court with understanding the legal argument.
Senator ROBERTS: On my reading of what you’ve said in Giggle for Girls Pty Ltd v Roxanne Tickle, the position on biological males in female spaces seems pretty clear at the Human Rights Commission. Could you explain?
Dr Cody: What would you like me to explain, Senator?
Senator ROBERTS: What your position is.
Dr Cody: On which issue?
Senator ROBERTS: The Human Rights Commission’s position on biological males in female spaces. Could you please explain your position on that.
Dr Cody: What do you mean by ‘biological males’, Senator?
Senator ROBERTS: Someone born as a male, XY chromosomes.
Dr Cody: If they are a man, and depending on which space they are wanting to enter and why that space has been created—if it’s a special measure, for example, for ensuring the quality of women—then there may be good reason to exclude men from that space.
Senator ROBERTS: What would be some of the reasons?
Dr Cody: For safety reasons, for example.
Senator ROBERTS: What sorts of safety reasons?
Dr Cody: There is certainly a reason why men would be excluded from a domestic violence refuge for women.
Senator ROBERTS: Female prison?
Dr Cody: Female prisons are also made for women, and therefore men would be excluded from a women’s prison.
What an over paid fool she is. A woke feminist for sure, who pretends to be impartial and skirts around the obvious . In reality wastes tax payer money to further her socialist left immoral society destroying agenda. She should be sacked and given a job at Mac Donald’s .Her and her kind are just leaches on society.
I am sorry Dr Cody is not fit for this job.
If you are born with a vagina you are a female but agree you may have male tendencies but you ARE a Female.If that person thinks / wants that they are a Male then they have mental issues. Same as for Males wanting to be Females.
To be paid that amount of money is very wrong and her pension should be withdrawn.
You missed your chance.
Dr Cody: If they are a man, ( she obviously is talking about a XY man here) and depending on which space they are wanting to enter and why that space has been created—if it’s a special measure, for example, for ensuring the quality of women (is she talking about a XX woman or a transitioning man to a woman)—then there may be good reason to exclude men (??? XY)from that space.
Senator ROBERTS: What would be some of the reasons?
Dr Cody: For safety reasons, for example.
Senator ROBERTS: What sorts of safety reasons?
Dr Cody: There is certainly a reason why men ( what about a man who has transitioned to look like a woman but still has XY?) would be excluded from a domestic violence refuge for women.
Senator ROBERTS: Female prison?
Dr Cody: Female (is she talking XX? women or XY women?) prisons are also made for women( XY women or XX women?) , and therefore men would be excluded from a women’s prison.
If XX womans prision is not safe with an XY woman in it why is a public swimming pool change room for XX woment safe with a XY woman in it????
It’s interesting that a “Discrimination Commissioner” cannot discriminate!!
Hans Christian Andrerson once wrote a story about an Emperor who wanted a new set of clothes tht would be so beautiful that everyone would be in awe of him. However he was so stupid that he was conned into thinking that only intelligent people could see the fabric.
He paraded down the street in his beautiful new garments, clearly stark naked, and everyone in the crowd who knew that only intelligent people could see the fabric, was going along with the con job in fear of being labelled stipid.
Finally a child called out, BUT HE IS NAKED!
How long is it going to take for people to stop accepting this ‘trans garment’, when 99% of the popultaton know it’s foolish nonsense, but are too scared to defend the reality that noone can change sex.
There are a lot of things in life we have to accept that we may not like, but that is life! If you are born with a Penis you are male. If you are born with a Vagina you are a female. If you are born with both, you definitely need some consideration and care. For the other 99.9999% of us, lump it or like it, you are what you are. Live with it and get on with life!
If you want to pretend you are the opposite sex, that is fine, but do not get upset when someone says you can’t play sport in your opposite chromosome’s sport or if you get blocked from entering their spaces. You do not belong there!
Return to common sense and we will all be better off!
Malcolm you are terrific and thank you,
The arguments and rhetoric coming from these woke humans is unbelievable! I say “woke” because I believe if you asked them to define if they are XX or XY they would themselves, have a problem? Their birth certificate would tell them.
However, quite obviously they have been told that under no circumstances are they to rule that you can define a Male or Female based on their chromosome.
Their payment may well be as they stated but I wonder about the other forms of remuneration?
They have been shown to be incredibly stupid and who would want to employ them for anything after this display of ineptitude?
Good on you Malcolm
This woman, I assume is XX, doesn’t know or understand what she is talking about.
Our children deserve better.