Against the Grain Media Interview

Damien:

We’ve been joined by Senator Malcolm Roberts from One Nation. It’s a real pleasure to have you on the show.

Malcolm Roberts:

It’s a pleasure being here. Thank you for the invitation, Damien.

Damien:

No worries. It’s great to have you. And I hear there was a little bit of trouble. We were having lunch when you rolled up, and you were in the courier mail offices and you tried to get in. Is that right? And I wouldn’t let you in. Can you tell us about that?

Malcolm Roberts:

I answered yes to every question except the first one, am I injected? And so I answered no there and they said they couldn’t let me in. But I get the feeling that they’re a little bit flexible on that.

Damien:

Okay. They let you in eventually.

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, they didn’t let me in there, but Michelle came and rescued me and brought me here, because you’re not in their building officially.

Damien:

No, right. Did you think they didn’t know who you were? They didn’t know your stance.

Malcolm Roberts:

No, I think it was completely accidental. It wasn’t deliberate. It wasn’t planned. The lady behind the counter said, “Who am I dealing with,” in a conversation to one of her producers. And I said, “Senator Malcolm Roberts.” And she said, “Okay.” Then it seemed to be they were embarrassed, but it’s not their fault.

Damien:

Yeah. But you were allowed in suddenly. You had a senatorial privilege, did you? Because you don’t have to be vaccinated to be in the Senate, do you?

Malcolm Roberts:

No. And therein tells you something really strong. If it’s good enough for the senators and the MPs to not be vaccinated, why the hell can’t everyday Aussies be unvaccinated?

Damien:

Well, that goes to the heart.

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s the exact issue.

Damien:

That’s why we’re doing this show.

Malcolm Roberts:

Good on you, by the way.

Damien:

[crosstalk 00:01:30]. No, but I talked to Craig Kelly, and he was saying because he didn’t have to be vaccinated to sit in the parliament. But then he came down to Victoria to speak at a rally we did in Ballarat, and he couldn’t hire a car. He got to Victoria, couldn’t hire a car because of his status. But he could represent us in parliament.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. And people say, “What the hell is it with parliamentarians who are given an exemption to do that?” And I said, “No, that’s not the issue. The issue is Australians are being forced to do it.” It should be exactly the same as for us. We’re not required to be forced to do it, they shouldn’t be required to do it.

Damien:

What’s behind that? Why weren’t you forced to do it? Why the exemption [crosstalk 00:02:05]-

Malcolm Roberts:

I’m guessing it would be interfering with the role of an elected MP, which would be right against the Constitution.

Damien:

But why wouldn’t it be interfering with the role of a McDonald’s worker?

Malcolm Roberts:

Exactly, exactly. And I’ve interviewed Professor David Flint a couple times on my TNT Radio.live show.

Damien:

Yeah, I’ve heard it.

Malcolm Roberts:

And he’s very good. He’s very sound. He’s won international awards for work, his expertise. He’s very highly regarded in this country on the Constitution, but he’s not one of these people who lives in an ivory tower.

Malcolm Roberts:

He’s on the ground, he’ll march in protests. Wonderful speaker. He’s so crisp and clear. And he’s saying, “I don’t know how they’re getting away with it.”

Malcolm Roberts:

Because what they’ve done, Damien, is the Liberal Party and the Nationals have locked together with the labor Party. And they have stitched it up federal and state.

Malcolm Roberts:

The federal can’t do this on its own. The state can’t do it on its own. Together, they can do it. That’s what’s wrong. This has been collusion. It’s been deliberate to try and put us in a stampede of fear. The virus of fear, really. And to bring in controls. There’s no doubt about that.

Damien:

Why? And why would the conservative parties be complicit with that agenda?

Malcolm Roberts:

It’s very simple. The World Economic Forum is driving this. The UN and World Economic Forum collude. They’re pushing a global agenda. The World Health Organisation, as you know, is part of the UN.

Malcolm Roberts:

They’re now trying to stitch up… I’m getting my staff to go and do research on the details. I’m speaking very broadly in an uninformed way, just relying on newspaper headlines, so forgive me.

Damien:

They can be in accurate, the newspaper headlines.

Malcolm Roberts:

Just sometimes.

Damien:

Just a little bit. They’re part of the same globalist agenda, aren’t they?

Malcolm Roberts:

Of course. Well, the globalists own the major media.

Damien:

BlackRock and Vanguard. Sorry, I’m interrupting.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, exactly.

Damien:

You follow the money. Go back and follow the money.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct. Yeah. And I’ve been doing that since I first started chasing this climate scam in 2008. Anyway, we can come back to that, but the globalists are pushing an agenda for control.

Malcolm Roberts:

And what the World Health Organisation wants is the ability to force people in individual countries at their order… Forget the government, to comply with various restrictions. Mandates, et cetera. Forced injections of people for future injections.

Malcolm Roberts:

That is global governance. All these people that said that United Nations are not about global governance are talking rubbish, because the United Nations was formed to implement global governance.

Malcolm Roberts:

Unelected. What is it now? Unelected socialist global governance. Words of Maurice Strong, number two in the UN at one time, and secretary general for the environment, I think he was.

Malcolm Roberts:

He said that, and the others have said pretty much the same thing. There’s a global agenda going on here. Their Rio Declaration summit in 1992, which Keating signed him after the labor Party.

Malcolm Roberts:

Which the Liberal Party has implemented and the National party has implemented, through John Howard and every prime minister since. That is a global governance document. It is to control people globally. And that’s what they want, global control.

Damien:

But on a personal level, it’s good for you, isn’t it, that the Liberals shadow labor like that. Because it means you can have this voice and be elected to parliament to be this voice. Is that right?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. It’s a funny story. A very, very good friend of mine, been a friend for about 50 years. He’s now close to 80. Very highly regarded in this country. I think the world of him.

Malcolm Roberts:

Doesn’t take anything face value. Doesn’t trust anyone, researches himself. Anyway, and he never gives advice. It’s up to you. He only called me once, gave me advice when I entered the Senate and said, “Don’t talk about Agenda 21.”

Malcolm Roberts:

Because the conspiracy theory tag will come out and another tag will come out. Even though I respect him so much, I said, “No, I’m not going to do that. I’m going to come out and tell the truth.”

Malcolm Roberts:

And now, people are waking up to the Agenda 21 and they’re waking up to the UN and the World Economic Forum. And this virus has destroyed many people’s lives, not through the virus but the mismanagement of the government’s response. But it’s helped people awaken. People can now see this is driven globally when Macron and Trudeau and-

Damien:

Ardern.

Malcolm Roberts:

Boris Johnson and Biden. And they all stick to the same… Ardern. Yeah, nasty piece of work. They all stick to the same words. Build back better. What’s the other one?

Damien:

Two weeks to flatten the curve.

Malcolm Roberts:

Two weeks. There’s another big one, the great reset.

Damien:

Yes, that’s correct.

Malcolm Roberts:

These things are all coming out at the same time from different mouths around the world. They’re all connected.

Damien:

Well, how come you see it, Malcolm? And then other people would just think, like you say, “I think you’re nuts. You’re a conspiracist?”

Malcolm Roberts:

Because I want to explore what I see. As a mining engineer, I was taught the science of the atmosphere, and atmospheric gases in particular. And so I know that the percentage of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is around 0.04%. Around four 100ths of a percent. It’s nothing. It’s called a trace gas because there’s bugger all of it.

Damien:

It’s essential to human life. Feeds plants.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. Exactly, it’s plant food. It’s fertiliser. It’s essential for all life on earth. We were taught that when men and women are alive underground, we have to have fans that suck the air down the mine and through, and clear gases and so on.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so we learned about the atmosphere. When I first started hearing about this global warming nonsense, I thought, “This is rubbish.” But then what we tend to do is go, “Who’s little old me to contradict thousands of scientists and hundreds of politicians?”

Malcolm Roberts:

There’s just something in me restless when it comes to that kind of thing, so I dug down to the science and I realised it’s complete crap. And so then I thought, “Well, what’s driving it?”

Malcolm Roberts:

Then I found the UN and then I thought, “What’s driving that? Who’s controlling that? Why was it formed?” I found the globalists and that’s where it went.

Malcolm Roberts:

The answer to your question is most politicians in parliament are members of the tired old parties. The labor Party, the Liberal Nationals, and increasingly to some extent, the Greens. They’re increasingly tired.

Malcolm Roberts:

But the point is that they don’t want to look. Because if they pick up a rock, find a scorpion, they’ve got to deal with the scorpion. They don’t want to do it.

Damien:

They don’t want to fall foul of the bureaucracy, ultimately.

Malcolm Roberts:

They don’t want to fall foul of their party power brokers. I can speak in the Senate and exposing the climate scam. I can walk outside, Damien, and they’ll pat me on the back, the Nationals. And the Liberals will pat me on the back and the labor Party will pat me in the back.

Malcolm Roberts:

Some of them say, “Keep going, keep going.” Because they don’t believe it, but they’re not going to speak up about it. They’re not representing their people. That’s a fundamental flaw in our system.

Damien:

How do we change that then?

Malcolm Roberts:

Vote. Because the people who are responsible for what’s going on in parliament are the people of the country, the voters. We’re a constitutional monarchy. The supreme entity of our… If that’s the right word.

Malcolm Roberts:

The supreme document of our country is the Constitution. Now, the queen is a part of that constitution, but she has to comply with the Constitution. She’s not an absolute monarch. She’s wonderful. In my opinion, the role is wonderful.

Damien:

A lot of people now say that queen’s role has been defunct, because we became a corporation in 2004.

Malcolm Roberts:

No, nonsense.

Damien:

No, it’s nonsense.

Malcolm Roberts:

That corporation is only so we can trade and enter into contracts. Government has to buy things. The Constitution can only be changed by an absolute majority of the people of Australia, and a majority of the people in each of the voters in each state.

Malcolm Roberts:

A majority of the states have a majority… That’s right. That means the queen can’t change the constitution, the parliament can’t change the constitution.

Damien:

A referendum can.

Malcolm Roberts:

Only you and I can through a referendum, the voters. The voters are the sovereigns. Now, the voters are charged with electing people into parliament, and the voters for too long have gone, “I don’t like labor now so I’ll vote Liberal. I don’t like Liberal now, 10 years later I’ll vote labor.”

Malcolm Roberts:

What they should be saying is, “They’re both the same. We’ll vote for someone else who’ll actually do their job.” And that’s increasingly what’s starting to happen. This virus has woken people up and they’re saying, “God, this doesn’t matter what we have, labor or Liberal. Bugger the lot of them.”

Damien:

You think it might be the broom that sweeps clean the two party preferred system that’s oppressing all of us.

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s what a lot of people are saying.

Damien:

Yeah. Are you finding that in your polling?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes, definitely.

Damien:

You’re finding your figures are improving. Are you up for the Senate?

Malcolm Roberts:

No, Pauline is up this time. She’s up in a couple of months and I’ve got another three years after that.

Damien:

Yeah. Pauline is interesting, isn’t it? Because I don’t know where you were in 1998. I’ll just tell bit of my personal history here for a second. I grew up in a really staunch labor household. My grandfather ruled the roost on that. “One day, there would only be the labor Party.” That sort of household, you know what I mean? And anyway, in 1998-

Malcolm Roberts:

And then 50% grew up in a Liberal household, “There’s only Liberals.”

Damien:

Exactly. Right. I understand that. In 1998, it was one of the last he actually did before he passed away. He voted Pauline Hanson and no one could believe it. Everyone was like, “Oh, my God.” You know what I mean?

Damien:

He was from south Australia and he was voting for this Queensland. It was meant to be a redneck and all that sort of stuff. You know the rhetoric, you’ve heard it all before.

Damien:

But now, I look back and one thing you can’t help but admire, Pauline’s tenacity. She went to jail, what seemed under very dubious circumstances. Something I’d love to talk to her about. Obviously, not to talk to you about it.

Damien:

But she was almost in front of Trump in recognising things that were wrong and sick in the culture, and things that were not allowed to be talked about. Because that’s the problem, isn’t it?

Damien:

Even with this thing about climate, you say everyone pats you on the back outside of the chamber. Inside the chamber, they all draw a different line. The problem is we’re not allowed to speak.

Damien:

Our freedom of expression is being encroached upon by political correctness. And I think Pauline identified that. What did you think of that in 1998, when you were sitting back? You weren’t in politics at that point in time.

Malcolm Roberts:

I didn’t pay much attention to it back then. I was too busy working. I always get focused on what I’m doing. Very much so. In 2016, Pauline approached me because she heard me speak in places.

Malcolm Roberts:

And she said she’d like me to stand beside her on the Senate floor. She needed someone strong to speak with her. And I said, “I’ll ask my wife.” I asked my wife and she said, “Yes, go for it.”

Malcolm Roberts:

Then I said to Pauline, “Okay. Now, I can have a talk with you. We need to get together and have a really good chat, because I’ve got some questions for you.” We started at 10:00 in the morning at her place and we finished at 9:30 at night. It was 11 hours, something like that.

Damien:

It was real meeting of minds, was it?

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, what was going on was that I wanted to know why all the smearing and all the rest of it, and how she’d been… She’d had freeloaders attack her and make use of her.

Damien:

Was that David Oldfield?

Malcolm Roberts:

There were several people in the mix, Damien. But what I realised was that she was relatively young for a politician. She was only about 40 something I think, early 40s. That’d be about right.

Malcolm Roberts:

And then she was inexperienced. But what I saw was that the growth in her, because of her honesty, people identified with her and they loved what she was doing. And it just shot through the roof. BD in Queensland and Howard in federal were just terrified.

Damien:

Particularly Howard, I’d say. Well, she stole both sides of that. That’s the thing. She stole both sides to her cause, didn’t she?

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s right. I wanted to find out what happened. And what I came to realise very quickly in our discussion, was that no one could have managed that situation. And then when you have freeloaders hanging on, criminals hanging on, they took advantage of this. She’s not naive, but she didn’t have the experience she’s got now.

Damien:

She didn’t have the political acumen, did she?

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct. But boy, she’s got it now. And then I could tell a very good friend of mine who’s known her for decades, told me she’s very honest.

Damien:

Is Pauline still honest or has she been corrupted by the political process?

Malcolm Roberts:

Completely honest. The honesty is what drives her. People say that she loves a fight. She doesn’t. You can see her get nervous before a fight. And so she doesn’t like a fight, but she knows that it’s dishonest to avoid it. She won’t run away.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so you watch her as she gets into it, she knows that she’s got to do it. She doesn’t like it. And then when she’s in the swing of things, she’s wonderful.

Malcolm Roberts:

People think that she’s absolutely determined, and she is. But she’s got wonderful listening skills. And so what she’ll do in a party meeting, she’ll say, “I think we should do this.” And sometimes with a lot of conviction and emphasis on it. “That’s what we’re going to do,” sort of thing.

Damien:

What’s a party meeting involve? Because there’s only two of you in the Senate. Do you know what I mean? How does that work?

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, we have our staff there and advisors, because we can’t possibly go through every bill in detail.

Damien:

But you got Mark Latham, too, in New South Wales.

Malcolm Roberts:

No, no. He’s New South Wales.

Damien:

Yeah. New South Wales.

Malcolm Roberts:

[crosstalk 00:14:47] Steve Andrew up here in Queensland. You have Andrew.

Damien:

Okay. Is there ever a point where the four of you get together?

Malcolm Roberts:

No, no. And Rod Roberts and Mark in New South Wales run their own show. Pauline is very much into devolution of responsibility. “Away you go.” She can say at a party meeting, “I think we should do this.”

Malcolm Roberts:

And I’ll say, “Hang on a minute. I disagree.” “Well, why?” “Because of this, this, and this.” “That’s a good point. I never thought of that. We’ll go with what you’re saying, Malcolm.”

Malcolm Roberts:

She’ll completely churn because she’s got a new slant of looking at it. She’ll usually be well organised and thorough in her approach, but sometimes she might not be, in which case she’ll change.

Damien:

You wouldn’t want it to go to a vote though, would you? Because she’d probably have the casting vote.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, the leader has the casting vote. No. With Pauline, she also has a lot of [inaudible 00:15:33], a lot of political instinct. Someone who doesn’t know their way around parliament said that she’s the best since Joh Bjelke-Petersen for understanding what people think. But quite frankly, that’s just about listening.

Damien:

Are you just giving us an insight into political allegiance there when you mention [crosstalk 00:15:51]-

Malcolm Roberts:

No, no. Well, Bjelke-Petersen did what was in Queensland’s interest. Now, he’s been tainted by having people like Russ Hinze around him. I don’t think he was that corrupt, but he was passionate about Queensland.

Malcolm Roberts:

It didn’t matter whether he was fighting Whitlam in the labor Party in federal parliament, or Fraser who replaced him in the Liberal Party as the prime minister. Bjelke-Petersen put Queensland first and he was wonderful for Queensland. Pauline Hanson puts Australia first and she’s wonderful for Australia.

Damien:

He’s another Queensland maverick though, isn’t he? There’s quite a few Queensland mavericks.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, he is. Yeah, he is.

Damien:

We talk about Bob Katter up in Kennedy, and Paul Lane, of course. But Joh ran for PM, too, in 1987. He was going to have a tilt at the top job. Can you remember that?

Malcolm Roberts:

I can, but I didn’t know a lot about it. Coming back to Pauline, I didn’t know a lot about her in 1998. I knew it was a media beat up, so I didn’t pay much attention.

Malcolm Roberts:

But having worked with her, she’s wonderful. She’s absolutely wonderful. A lot of labor and Liberal people love her. And in parliament, they know because both sides will deal with her, will work with her.

Malcolm Roberts:

Because they know that if she says something, that’s it. She’s going to do it. And if they come back with more information and they can convince her, then she’ll take it on board. And she’s very good at listening and she’s got a very good heart. Very warm and generous.

Damien:

In 1998, she tapped into something in the Australian psyche because she won 11% of votes.

Malcolm Roberts:

No, she got 11 MPS in Queensland, she won 23% of the votes.

Damien:

23% of the votes.

Malcolm Roberts:

That terrified Howard.

Damien:

That would terrify anybody. Yeah. What did she tap into? What was it? Is it just the honesty you’re talking about, or were there things that were being left unsaid in Australian politics and she was happy to say them? She had an unassuming style?

Malcolm Roberts:

We’ve got to understand, Damien. I’m not trying to give you a lesson here, but the MPS in Canberra in particular, and to a lesser extent in Brisbane, are slaves to foreign interests.

Malcolm Roberts:

You can look at our tax system, our industrial relations system, the regulations we have in this country. Foreign multinationals are favoured. Japan has 2.5% or had 2.5% of its major corporations are foreign owned. America and Britain around 12.5%.

Malcolm Roberts:

Australia, 90%. They’re not my figures, they’re from the deputy commissioner of taxation, who retired some time ago. And so we’re destroying our country and giving a free ride to these foreign own multinationals.

Malcolm Roberts:

And what happens is the prime ministers, whether they’re labor or Liberal, will appease them. They get donations from them. Big pharma donated last federal election, $400,000 to the labor Party, $500,000 to the Liberal Party. And now, we’re seeing the biggest transfer of wealth ever in our country’s history, from your pocket and my pocket and everyone’s pocket, into big pharma for nothing.

Damien:

Can you believe what you’ve seen over the last two years in Australia? What’s happened as a result of the coronavirus.

Malcolm Roberts:

It’s difficult for anyone to believe. It’s incredible. But the thing is having had the background researching where the climate scam came from, it’s not surprising at all.

Malcolm Roberts:

It’s just a manifestation. Now, what is really scary, it’s not surprising, is that our staff in my office have done the research on the Digital Identity Bill. And that is truly horrific. The COVID restrictions.

Damien:

I saw you grilling people in the Senate-

Malcolm Roberts:

Sorry?

Damien:

I saw you grilling people in the Senate Estimate Committee the other day. It was actually the Reserve Bank you were grilling.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, the Reserve Bank. They’re usually one of the better ones in Senate Estimates. They actually come clean and pretty straightforward. But the Digital Identity bill has been not introduced into parliament, because there’s a process for that.

Malcolm Roberts:

But they’ve introduced it into the overall mix, and they’ve given us copies of the bill. That bill, significant portions of it are copied and virtually pasted from the World Economic Forum strategy for digital identity around the world. Digital transformation.

Malcolm Roberts:

They want complete control. The things that we’ve got with, what do they call them, QR codes, the vaccine mandates, injection mandates,.that’s the basis of their identity.

Malcolm Roberts:

And what they want, they’ll set up a system where they’ll remove cash, then you’ve got no alternative. That’s underway. You can see the lines in the bill, they don’t say that, but that’s what’s coming.

Damien:

You fought against that only a couple of years ago, before.

Malcolm Roberts:

Cash ban.

Damien:

Yeah. There was a $10,000 cash ban. You weren’t allowed to give any more than $10,000 to someone in payment, and that was imposed by a so-called conservative government as well. You stood up for that.

Malcolm Roberts:

It wasn’t imposed because we beat it. We got wind of that and we went to the labor Party and we went to the cross benches, and they all went, “We’re with you.” And then we went to the labor Party in the lower house, Steven Jones, and said, “How can you possibly support this? Your voters would be up in arms.”

Malcolm Roberts:

And they passed it in the lower house. But we got enough into the labor Party and embarrassed them enough that when it came to the Senate, they consigned it to a committee.

Malcolm Roberts:

But the significant thing there was not that we did that, but there were people in the Liberal Party who joined us and said… Not as a party, but they joined us in our fight against the cash ban bill.

Malcolm Roberts:

And there were a number of people and grassroots and parties in Victoria, party branches in Victoria, who really hit the roof about it. And they really pushed their Liberal MPS.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so after a while, it was bubbling around in the committee. And we just moved a motion saying, “Let’s get rid of it off the list for the Senate.” And it went.

Damien:

I get a bit confused though, Malcolm. They talk about vaccines and QR codes being important to bring about the Digital Identity Bill. It seems to me it doesn’t even matter. It’s almost a smokescreen.

Damien:

While we’re fighting against the mandates, the Digital Identity Bill is being introduced anyway. And I reckon there was likely deterrents. “You know what? We’ll let the mandates go,” because they’re going to get what they want through the Digital Identity Bill that’s being passed as we speak.

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, don’t count on it because we’ve been very effective. The bill has not even been introduced into the lower house as part of the parliamentary process.

Malcolm Roberts:

We’ve already smashed it. We’ve raised people’s interest and awareness of it. When I go to a rally, sometimes I just say, “How many of you heard of the Digital Identity Bill?”

Malcolm Roberts:

20% put their hands up, and it’s increasing. We’ve put out a series of eight videos, seven videos on that. I’ve spoken in Senate on it, done a number of other things, raised it at rallies. We’ve got a lot of awareness out there, and the government would be crazy to even try it now because they’ll get smashed.

Malcolm Roberts:

And the other good thing. Sorry to interrupt. The other good thing is, but I asked questions of the digital transformation energy in Senate Estimates a couple of weeks ago. Bloody hopeless.

Damien:

What’s that, please? What is that?

Malcolm Roberts:

You know of Errol Flynn?

Damien:

Yeah.

Malcolm Roberts:

Everything he touched, he screwed. It’s the same with these guys, but they wrecked the things. They’ve had so many major programmes costing billions of dollars, and they’ve wrecked everything they’ve touched. They’re in charge of putting in the digital transformation, so we’re in good shape there because then they can’t do it.

Damien:

But when you talk about these things, I’ve been involved with the freedom movement in Melbourne a lot, in response to the lockdowns, the restrictions that have been placed on the culture.

Malcolm Roberts:

Good job, too. Good job.

Damien:

Yeah, absolutely. But if you depart from ending the mandates, which is clearly important. It’s something to focus on. It unites the team. If you depart from it, start to talk about some of these greater issues and the World Economic Forum, et cetera, and UN. All those involvements. The WHO.

Damien:

People can get very agitated and it splinters very, very, very quickly, particularly around identity politics. It’s hard to have the broader conversation. It’s very clever by the globalists, even if they [inaudible 00:23:17] accidental. But it makes it very hard to talk about these things, doesn’t it?

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, I disagree with you because what happens. If you talk about too much of this, then you’re correct, it diffuses from the focus. The focus is on ending the mandates. The focus is on bringing freedoms back, ending the restrictions, stopping kids getting vaccinated.

Malcolm Roberts:

But people need to know what’s driving that. Why are they suddenly wanting to inject kids? Why are they suddenly wanting mandates? As you said a little while ago, you wouldn’t have believed this two years ago. You wouldn’t have believed some of this stuff six months ago.

Damien:

The police are firing rubber bullets on the peaceful Victorian protesters.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. We have to understand that first of all, what’s the background to this? Give people the context, then they’re more likely to continue. And then the second thing is we have to give them the information of what it’s really about, so they really fight it.

Malcolm Roberts:

And they have to understand who they’re fighting. Morrison is just a front for the World Economic Forum. What’s his name? Mathis Coleman left leadership of the Senate, Liberal Party. The government and the Senate went into the OECD.

Damien:

Yeah. They all do, they all do.

Malcolm Roberts:

Global insanity. Global insanity.

Damien:

Yeah. But they all do that, don’t they? Is the problem career politicians? That’s the problem, because they work through the system and they want to stay inside of the system. It’s the last thing you want to do if you want to stay inside a system, is fall foul of that very system that you’re appealing to.

Malcolm Roberts:

Look at Greg Hunt. Greg hunt, before he got into politics, was a member of the World Economic Forum. He was director of strategy for it, and he’s a graduate of the World Economic Forum’s global young leaders programme. So is Jacinda Ardern, so Macron, so is Trudeau, so is Boris Johnson, so are many of these people. And what they’re doing is they’re infiltrating our entities.

Damien:

And Andrews.

Malcolm Roberts:

Is he, too? I didn’t know that.

Damien:

I believe so, I believe so.

Malcolm Roberts:

They’re infiltrating these entities. The Republican Party in America has got five of them, the Democrats in America have got 20 or so of them.

Damien:

It’s not right versus left anymore, isn’t it? It’s big government versus the people, ultimately, isn’t it?

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct.

Damien:

We got to devolve from the system. Somehow, we have to devolve from the system. What will be that process? How are we going to do that?

Malcolm Roberts:

We have to make sure the system is implemented properly. At the moment, it’s the breaking from the system, the contradiction of the system, that’s enabling it to happen. We have to get back to compliance with our Constitution properly.

Damien:

How do you do that? How do you bring that about when none of the institutions seem to be in support of you?

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, we’ve got to raise it with the people. That’s why when I got into the Senate, my first speech in the Senate back in 2016, I called for an OzExit. You remember Brexit was-

Damien:

Yeah, I absolutely do.

Malcolm Roberts:

… in the mind of people then. November, 2016. And I called for an OzExit, Australia exiting the UN. It’s a corrupt, dishonest, incompetent, anti-human body. It’s an industry. It’s pushing the globalist agenda, who only might control.

Malcolm Roberts:

I raised it then. We got to keep raising it. And so I tend to go for things. What my staff said, “Malcolm, hang on. Just pull the reins back a bit and educate people about what the UN is doing.” And that’s what we did. We’ve got a lot of people now. The moment we mention UN on Facebook, people just swamp it.

Damien:

Yeah. The globalists really struggled with Brexit, too, didn’t they? Because the British people voted for Brexit and then it took them a long time for it to be realised, because the establishment just the didn’t want to implement it, despite the will of the British people.

Malcolm Roberts:

Full marks to Nigel Farage. He did a wonderful job.

Damien:

Yeah, he did.

Malcolm Roberts:

But it’s significant. People within the UN have said that the model for global governance that the UN is trying to build, is the EU. There’s a unicameral parliament there which is supposed to be representing the people from all across the EU.

Damien:

That’s what we have in Brisbane. Brisbane is a unicameral parliament. That means one house.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes. But the real decisions are made by the bureaucrats who control the show, and so they’re all appointed. You’ve got an unelected continent wide socialist governance going on, and they’re stripping away the powers of the nation states. And the British, to their credit, and especially to Nigel Farage, said, “No. We’ve had enough.” And they pulled out.

Damien:

Now, this is the perversity, isn’t it? Because Farage never has any power locally, but he has power in the EU. He goes to the EU and he says to them, basically, “I went out of this place.” They mock him and laugh at him. Then what is it?

Malcolm Roberts:

It takes him about 20 years or something.

Damien:

And he comes back and says, “Finally, we’re out of here. We’re leaving.” He gets what he wants. But again, he’s thrown away any power that he would’ve had politically, because he wasn’t just simply being a purely political operative. He’s actually a man of some sort of principle.

Malcolm Roberts:

Right, he is.

Damien:

He’ll be painted as someone of no principle, and everyone else is painted as having principle according to the media elite that controls what we see and hear.

Malcolm Roberts:

Maybe this is Nigel Farage’s responsibility to do what I’m about to say. But who’s really responsible there? It’s the people. The people could see what Farage was doing.

Malcolm Roberts:

They got on board behind him, they forced the conservative party, the Tories in Britain, to really push Brexit, and they got it. Then the moment they got out of Brexit, what did they do in the next council elections? They voted with the Tories again.

Damien:

Well, Peter Hitchens, Christopher Hitchens’ brother. He’s been saying for years, and he’s a Tory voter, that the Tory Party needs to collapse. There’s no point voting for it.

Damien:

It’s a pointless party, because it needs to collapse so something can grow in its place. Because otherwise, it’ll continue to do exactly what you’ve just said. It’ll just tody up to the system, staying slightly right of whatever the leftist party is. But offering nothing, ultimately.

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s right. We’ve got the Liberals in this country and the Nationals pretending to be right wing. We’ve got the labor Party who was in coalition the last time it was in government, with the Greens. We’ve got the labor-Greens coalition. And both coalitions go after the middle vote, because that’s where the majority of voters are.

Damien:

Yeah. Especially in Australia, because it’s a small [crosstalk 00:29:04].

Malcolm Roberts:

Scott Morrison belted Bill Shorten last time, because Bill Shorten was untrustworthy. Even the labor Party voters wouldn’t vote for him. But they got the labor Party into deep trouble at the election because of 2050 net zero from the UN.

Malcolm Roberts:

And Scott Morrison was all over it, really bashing the labor Party. Now, the labor Party has adopted it, and the Nationals pretended to dispute it but they went along for the ride.

Damien:

Is there a few things going on there? He was emboldened by Trump. The presence of Trump helped him to be able to take that stance.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes, but Morrison is shallow and he’s dishonest, in my opinion.

Damien:

Yeah. It was cynical. He did it as a political exercise.

Malcolm Roberts:

He’s doing what he’s told to do.

Damien:

What will he do this time? Will he pivot on mandates suddenly? He hasn’t got long, he better hurry up and do it. The labor premiers might beat him to the punch.

Malcolm Roberts:

I think there’s something else that he’s working on very hard. You’ll notice he’s coming out to align with the Americans and the British on Ukraine. “Vote for the Liberal Party. They’re strong on security.” It’s crap. They’ve got us into so many wars.

Damien:

Will anyone really care? Not to say whatever is happening in Russia and with the Ukraine, but that’s not really going to have any bearing on Australians, is it?

Malcolm Roberts:

What he’s trying to do is whip up fear, because with fear… Humans are wonderful. We’ve got this wonderful thing called the neocortex, logical thinking, processing. But you get someone afraid, that all gets bypassed. We go back to the primaeval way of thinking. Fight, flight, or freeze.

Malcolm Roberts:

And what he’s doing is whipping up some fear around that and saying, “labor Party is weak on this. You have to come to us.” He’ll say, “Taiwan.” And that’s why he’s pretending to scream at China, because he’s trying to show they’re strong, labor Party is weak.

Malcolm Roberts:

And then they’re trying to frame labor Party as colluding with the Chinese. Liberals have had MPs colluding with the Chinese. Decades of it. The Chinese are influential in both sides of politics.

Malcolm Roberts:

What the people need to do is to wake up and say, “Hell, we’ve been voting for these people ever since we were kids. Mom and dad voted for them, granddad and grandma voted for them. I’ve got to stop and think there’s no difference between Liberal Party and labor Party. Why should I vote for either?”

Malcolm Roberts:

And they put us into this mess. The labor Party and the state government has colluded with the Liberal Party, National party, and federal government. They could not have implemented the mandates, they could not have mismanaged COVID without colluding.

Malcolm Roberts:

They’ve done that. They’ve done it under the World Economic Forum’s guidance, directions. They’re doing so many things to damage our country under the UN’s directions. Literally directions.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so people are waking up and they’re saying, “Hang on a minute. They’re the same.” And they’re also saying we need a third force in politics, so that’s why they’re looking at the minor freedom parties now.

Damien:

And what about Trump and his election loss in 2020? Do you believe that he lost that election, or do you believe there was-

Malcolm Roberts:

Stolen.

Damien:

… other powers involved. Okay.

Malcolm Roberts:

Stolen. Yeah. One of my staffers is all over the American political scene. He knows what’s going on, he knows about the electoral colleges, but deeper behind that. And he was telling me, he was unmasking some of the counting before it was actually happening. And he’s saying, “Trump walked this in but it was still stolen.” And now, we see in Arizona-

Damien:

The Dominion voting system.

Malcolm Roberts:

Each state seems to be different.

Damien:

Don’t they want to bring that here, the Dominion voting system? That’s what I’ve heard. Or is that just skullduggery from outside?

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s more myth. I’ll tell you what we’ve done about that, same person in our office. Had a talk with me about an audit of the federal election system. He said, “Do you know that the federal election has never been audited in this country?” Western Australia does get audited, New South Wales does. No one else

Damien:

As they say, vote early and vote often.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. There are two aspects. The first was an audit of the election processes and safeguards, especially cyber safeguards before the election. And an audit of the result after the election, before it’s declared.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so we floated legislation to that effect from my office. We did that. The Liberals came out and said, “We’re not going to vote for it.” And same with the labor Party. The Liberals took it then.

Damien:

It works well for the two of them, doesn’t it? The two party system, they look after each other.

Malcolm Roberts:

No. On this occasion, not so. Because what they did was they came and they saw us, and we said, “There’s the legislation. Copy and paste whatever you want.” They copied and pasted almost the whole thing.

Malcolm Roberts:

They changed minor phrases in a couple of areas, so it’s basically our bill. The Liberals then brought it back. labor Party was forced to vote for it because they couldn’t be seen to be voting against it.

Damien:

Looked like they vote against that. Who could vote against that?

Malcolm Roberts:

And the Liberals did, too. We’ve got that election audited in place, so our elections are safeguarded. And why is that-

Damien:

Is this from the next election?

Malcolm Roberts:

From the next, yeah. Before the next election. What’s significant is that we don’t have electronic voting. We have a paper system, which is wonderful for the house of reps. But in the Senate when you’ve got 120 candidates-

Damien:

And a massive paper a kilometre long.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. How do you allocate those preferences? A human can’t do it, so you’ve got to do it electronically. That’s the process. Our office went out and we listened to cryptographers, some of the best in Australia, and asked them for their views. We got a lot of input. That’s why our bill was basically reintroduced by the Liberals [crosstalk 00:34:04]-

Damien:

Can we trust the process that’s going to look after this safeguard though?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes.

Damien:

Because it seems like all the institutions are corrupted at some level.

Malcolm Roberts:

We’re very confident. The fellow in my office, he’s been talking with a lot of people. And he said they’re very confident that we’ve now got an election that’s free from tampering.

Malcolm Roberts:

Where it’s still not free is we also introduced the voter ID. And the labor Party is totally opposed to voter ID, because they vote a number of times, some of the labor members. More than two or three.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so they don’t want that. And we know that’s happening, and the Liberal Party wants to bring that in. But where we failed was that we had the election audit and the voter ID in the same bill.

Malcolm Roberts:

The Liberals were clever. They took our work and carved it into two. They introduced the election auditing, and labor couldn’t help but support it. Now, they kept the voter ID separate. Now, they’ve put that up again.

Malcolm Roberts:

At the moment, because we’re fighting for freedom in this country, Pauline and I are opposing every piece of legislation that the government puts up. Not just abstaining, but putting a no vote to it, so the Liberal Party has got to be careful how it introduces voter ID.

Malcolm Roberts:

We’re supporting it, but we can’t vote for it at the moment because freedom is far more important. As Pauline says, “Voter ID is very important to us, but even more important is freedom. Go to hell.”

Damien:

And freedom is?

Malcolm Roberts:

Freedom is freedom from mandates, freedom from a lot of the restrictions, the lockdowns, the closed borders. All the freedoms that have been… You can’t steal freedoms. Freedom.

Damien:

It’s been taken from us though.

Malcolm Roberts:

Taken from us.

Damien:

Freedom has been taken from us. How do we bring it back? Do we need to amend the Constitution?

Malcolm Roberts:

No, no. The Constitution is fine. What we need to do is… You’ll see. I can’t tell you what it is now. We’re going to be doing something in the next session of parliament. Pauline has already tried to get an anti-discrimination.

Damien:

I saw that. Yeah. And George Christensen put a similar bill up, didn’t he?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes. This issue, Damien, is probably the most important in the country because it’s about our future. It’s about our kids. All kinds of things run off it. Injecting kids run off it.

Malcolm Roberts:

What we’ve got to do is recognise that it is so important, but it’s going to be solved probably… We don’t know yet. We tried every trick we can and every open strategy.

Malcolm Roberts:

And the government, because it’s following World Economic Forum orders and UN orders, they’re just immune to it. Someone in the court system will have a breakthrough. We had one in New Zealand last week. There’s a good case in Adelaide.

Damien:

There’s no mandate placed on the police or the army. That’s right, in New Zealand?

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct. Yeah. Then there’s a case going on in Adelaide and another one, AVN I think is doing it. I can’t remember. The Anti-Vaccine Network.

Damien:

They’re bringing a case into South Australian court, are they?

Malcolm Roberts:

No. I don’t know which court they’re in. I think they’re in the federal, ultimately getting to high court. Then there’ll be people pressure, because senior members of the Liberal Party in the Senate have told me that they’re terrified of the number of members who’ve left the Liberal Party.

Malcolm Roberts:

Said, “The hell with you lot. You’re not Liberal anymore.” And the number of high value donors who used to donate significant sums to Liberal Party, they’ve said, “To hell with you lot.” [crosstalk 00:37:11]-

Damien:

I’ve had both size of the house, labor [inaudible 00:37:12]. There’s a lot of hostility towards members at the moment they haven’t experienced before. There’s always some level hostility to parliamentarians.

Malcolm Roberts:

The people putting pressure on is working. The third thing is it’s going to be some kind of solution in the political arena, somewhere in parliament. We’ve got a few things lined up there.

Malcolm Roberts:

Pauline has already done a couple of things, we’ve done a couple of things. More than just putting pressure on. Then you’ve also got pressure in the media, social media. That’s where we’re ramping that up, providing we don’t get banned, because we’ve been threatened.

Damien:

Banned? From social media.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. We’ve had some of our posts taken down.

Damien:

Do you get banned a bit?

Malcolm Roberts:

I’ve been banned on YouTube twice just for telling the truth.

Damien:

Have you ever been on the ABC?

Malcolm Roberts:

I was initially?

Damien:

Initially what?

Malcolm Roberts:

Greg Jennett back in the first time, before I got kicked out for the citizenship issues.

Damien:

Yeah, that was citizen, was it?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah.

Damien:

Almost everyone got kicked out [inaudible 00:38:02]. I think we should have let them all go. If we knew then what we know, now we probably said, “See yous later.” But anyway.

Malcolm Roberts:

Greg Jennett from the ABC has asked me if I’d come on. I went on a couple weeks ago with him.

Damien:

How was that? What was the reception like?

Malcolm Roberts:

Fine, fine. There’s a funny story there. The ABC would come to us and they’d distort what we’re saying, and edit it and chop it around, and make us look like something we’re saying that wasn’t true.

Damien:

We’re going to do that to you, Malcolm.

Malcolm Roberts:

Good. I know. Yeah, I can tell from your eyes. Anyway, we said, “No more interviews with the ABC.”

Damien:

Starved them.

Malcolm Roberts:

Starved them. And Pauline is dynamite for ratings. People love watching her. Anyway, the ABC got down on their knees, basically. And I said, “Look, I’m not interested.”

Malcolm Roberts:

They’d call up and say, “Will you do an interview?” I said, “Live or prerecord?” “Prerecord.” “Not interested. Live.” And then Greg Jennett came to me and said, “Look, we won’t disturb [crosstalk 00:38:59]-“

Damien:

They can’t manipulate it if it’s live. Yeah. That’s what you’re saying, because otherwise they’ll edit and make you look however they want you to look.

Malcolm Roberts:

Right. Greg Jennett, I like dealing with him. He put a funny close in last time to get the last word, which contradicted the truth. But that’s fine, it wasn’t about me, it was about climate in general.

Damien:

People are starting to see the mistakes though, aren’t they? People are starting to see through their mistakes.

Malcolm Roberts:

Look at this studio here. How many people-

Damien:

Okay. All right, guys. Just so everyone knows, we’re in The Courier-Mail offices. And I think it was built for about 2,000 people when it was built, whenever it was built. That’s what people have been saying. And how many would be in here now?

Malcolm Roberts:

I don’t know, but there’s a massive… How big is that, 80 metres by 30 metres? 80 metres by 40 metres.

Damien:

It’s empty.

Malcolm Roberts:

Full of desks. Empty.

Damien:

Entirely empty.

Malcolm Roberts:

There’s two journalists over there in the corner. Media is [crosstalk 00:39:45]-

Damien:

The legacy media is really struggling, isn’t it? Yeah.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes, and they’ve done it to themselves.

Damien:

Well, Trump called out fake news, didn’t he? Remember fake nerves? Now, everyone says fake news. It’s become part of the lexicon, hasn’t it, that we talk about?

Malcolm Roberts:

Trump was like getting a shark and slitting its belly and watching the other shark’s feet on it. Look at Joe Rogan.

Damien:

Yeah. I don’t watch his show, but hear he’s just doing…

Malcolm Roberts:

I haven’t got time to watch it.

Damien:

It’s huge figures. You’ve got your own podcast. I heard some.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. We saw the ratings on Joe Rogan’s interview of Robert Malone.

Damien:

Right, Dr Robert Malone.

Malcolm Roberts:

Was 11.5 Million views. Tucker Carlson show on Fox News had the next highest with 3.8. That’s one third.

Damien:

That’s extraordinary.

Malcolm Roberts:

And CNN rounded off the top 10 with 600,000. People don’t trust them.

Damien:

Why don’t the mainstream just talk to the same people? You can see what works. Why wouldn’t the mainstream just talk to the same doctors that we talk to?

Malcolm Roberts:

Because their owners are the globalists who are pushing the thing. Big pharma in America funds 70% of the media advertising in America. They can’t afford to contradict a big pharma.

Damien:

Yeah. But then what do they do in the meantime and see Joe Rogan’s figures? Sweep. But does it not matter anymore? You don’t need to sell papers, it’s actually a propaganda. George Soros’ propaganda arm doesn’t need to make any money because he can support it anyway.

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, that’s true. But also, Gates is known for funding social media and the legacy media, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars to put out propaganda. And the people now know that, and they’re saying, “To hell with you lot.”

Damien:

What are we to make of Trump’s championing of the vaccines? He’s really proud of the vaccines. He still is and he still talks about it. What do we make of that?

Malcolm Roberts:

I can’t work that out. It doesn’t fit with Trump. The only thing I can think of is that… And this ties in with what we’ve learned about Fauci, who’s a genocidal maniac.

Malcolm Roberts:

Fauci was too big to knock off. He’s been in that position 40 years. He’s now 80, so he’s been there all through the prime of his career. He’s entrenched. He’s got a shadowy network of people that he controls through disbursement of money.

Malcolm Roberts:

He’s extremely powerful. You could see Trump in his early days with this COVID virus wanting to take on Fauci, because Trump didn’t run away from people. But you could see him after a while back right off.

Malcolm Roberts:

And so maybe he was doing that because Fauci controlled the injections and so on. Maybe he was just scared of opposing. Trump, you could see, he wasn’t Trump in his normal sense.

Damien:

He got out manoeuvred, didn’t he? He really got out manoeuvred.

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s the word.

Damien:

He outmanoeuvred them by using their social media against them, but they got him back a beauty, didn’t they?

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s a good summary, and I think he fell victim to that. You’ll notice the media when he was in power was all over him for not managing COVID properly. Sleepy Joe came in, completely mismanaged it, and yet they said he was doing a wonderful job. The media, they got him over COVID. They misrepresented what he was doing.

Damien:

What do we make of him running again in 2024?

Malcolm Roberts:

Bring it on.

Damien:

Bring it on?

Malcolm Roberts:

Bring it on. Love it.

Damien:

Yeah. You want to see it again. It’s something you would have really appreciated. He pulled us out of net zero. Didn’t he pull us out? It was Paris he pulled out of.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, Paris.

Damien:

Which was extraordinary, and it looked like he might even pull out of the UN and all these things. And he was talking a lot about NATO.

Malcolm Roberts:

Pulled out of WHO.

Damien:

Pulled out of WHO. This is just unheard of. No one has done it ever since. It hasn’t been that long, but they wouldn’t even think about it. Wouldn’t dream of it. Because he wasn’t a political operative, really. He didn’t grow up through the system, so he made some really bold calls.

Damien:

But then Morrison lost his mojo, clearly, when Trump fell. And he just went straight back to net zero. And so the Australian people lost a lot of heart in that time.

Malcolm Roberts:

I don’t know that he went straight back to net zero. He was driven back to net zero by Biden and Boris Johnson. Johnson is a real disappointment.

Damien:

Yeah, Boris is. But there’s too many powers operating against a small to medium player. How would you go as the prime minister of Australia standing up to that sort of pressure, which would be really intense? It was serious interests.

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, I had a word with [inaudible 00:43:56]. I think first of all, you put the national interest first. And if you do your job well, Maggie Thatcher showed you get reelected. If you do your job well, you get reelected. Reagan showed that.

Damien:

Howard took a real risk, didn’t he, with the GST election. People told him not to go to it. It destroyed Houston. Katie made Houston looked like a fool, and Howard went to the people with.

Damien:

It’d almost take something like that from Morrison, wouldn’t it? Some conviction. Australian people need to see something from him that he believes in, that he’s willing to put his neck on the line for.

Malcolm Roberts:

He hasn’t got the stomach for that. He’s a wind vein and he won’t do that. I can’t see anybody in the Liberal Party at the moment who would do that. And there’s certainly no one in the labor Party. They’re playing the globalist game.

Malcolm Roberts:

The prime minister, Maggie Thatcher showed, so did Ronald Reagan. If you explain why you’re doing something, the people will come on board if it’s done correctly,

Damien:

But you need a narrative to sell then, don’t you? You need something to sell. You need to identify something to sell the people. Some conviction in something.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct, correct. And Damien, what I’ve noticed, whether it’s in industry or in politics or even social issues. People are not scared of change, they’re scared of uncertainty. And quite often, uncertainty comes with the change.

Malcolm Roberts:

And I’ve had some pretty radical things that I’ve done as an executive that people have followed, even though it was right out of their comfort zone initially. But if you give people the right background and understanding and create a vision, then people will go, providing it’s truthful.

Malcolm Roberts:

What’s happened is you had Kevin Rudd standing in front of a church every Sunday. You’ve got Morrison standing up at Hillsong and all this. Fake Christians. Morrison wouldn’t behave the way he’s behaving if he was a true Christian.

Malcolm Roberts:

What we need is people with conviction. If you look at what’s happened with this virus completely being mismanaged, and I mean completely mismanaged. We could spend a couple hours on that.

Damien:

Deliberately so? Was it set off? Is it a bio weapon that was deliberately set off?

Malcolm Roberts:

I don’t know that it was a bio weapon. There’s certainly [crosstalk 00:45:55]-

Damien:

Opportunists are just using it now.

Malcolm Roberts:

Could be a bio weapon, because the funding came from the United States illegally, and Fauci has admitted that. It could be a bio weapon. It certainly caused a lot of damage.

Malcolm Roberts:

But so far as the leadership, what a good leader does is a good leader listens to the people, finds out what their needs are. And then gets the data and paints a vision and says, “Damien, wouldn’t you like this?” And a leader is characterised by having followers who choose to follow him or her.

Damien:

Unless you know the necessity for change while the necessity is there.

Malcolm Roberts:

Right. What happens is leaders are not created and said, “Okay. Now, people must follow.” Leaders are leaders because people want to follow them. It’s a choice.

Malcolm Roberts:

What we’ve had in the vaccine is the complete opposite. Sorry, the virus is the complete opposite. We’ve had people pushing, shoving, coercing, blackmailing. It’d be like trying to get a horse to move by just all you’re doing is kicking it in the ass all the time, instead of leading it forward.

Damien:

Is Klaus Schwab a leader in that respect then?

Malcolm Roberts:

[crosstalk 00:46:53].

Damien:

Because he’s identifying something needs…. There is a problem with us, with society. There’s eight billion of us on this planet. There’s never been so many of us. We’re facing such huge amounts of debt. Who do we owe this money to? Every country in the world seems to owe money. Who’s it owed to?

Malcolm Roberts:

There’s not a problem with population, because each belly comes with two eyes, two ears, and a wonderful mind, and a wonderful heart. We’ll always overcome these issues. We’re on top of this now. There are more people now in the middle class than ever before, so we’ve got fewer people in poverty, despite population [crosstalk 00:47:27]-

Damien:

An abundance of wealth, really. We’ve never been so wealthy ever.

Malcolm Roberts:

The core problem is that humans are prone to control. Some people, the control freaks want to control others, and it shows an insecurity but people see them sometimes as dynamic. Then we see people subservient to that control, and so what we see, the eternal battle between control and freedom-

Damien:

Master, slave.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, it is. Let’s face it. If you’re a master and I’m your slave, you can get work me for nothing, and the produce that I produce is yours. What a wonderful way to get goods.

Malcolm Roberts:

Trouble is slaves, eventually you end up having less efficiency. And that’s the lesson we learned from the release of this slaves in Britain. What was that? 18th century.

Malcolm Roberts:

The more efficient way is to help your people who are working for you to be better off. Then they’re more committed, because a slave doesn’t have any heart in the game.

Malcolm Roberts:

And humans, the heart determines everything. And so you have people who are more committed, more creative, more entrepreneurial. If you’ve got people working with you rather than for you, you can be much, much wealthier than just exploiting them.

Damien:

We’re going to enter ultimate slavery, aren’t we, more than ever before with artificial intelligence. We’ve never been more of an attack on what it means to be human.

Malcolm Roberts:

You’ve nailed it, you’ve nailed it. Feudalism was where the barons controlled the land, and they said, “I’ll be the baron now. You go and eke out of living. You’ll produce and I’ll take most of it. You’ll have enough to barely keep you alive.

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s what the UN wants. That’s what their dictators in charge of the UN, unelected dictators, are saying. They want to return to feudalism, because then they will basically control your property, control how you live, what you do, when you do it. What you say, what you spend money on, social credit system. That’s what they want.

Damien:

Are we already living it? Because everywhere you look, you just see everyone is on their mobile phones constantly. Wherever you are in any setting, people are just engaging with digital media.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. That’s the wonderful thing. These mobile phones liberate people, because think of the things that help me with my productivity and help the world with productivity from this. But used wrongly, they become a control tool.

Damien:

We’re having a superficial [inaudible 00:49:35] of it really, because it’s more complex. Like everything in the world, it’s actually really complex. [inaudible 00:49:40].

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. This is wonderful for liberating people and freedom, but it can be used, providing government… It needs government to get in the way of freedom, and government can then turn this into a weapon. You’re absolutely right.

Damien:

We talk about the need for change and a good leader would bring us on a journey, articulating why there is that need for change. But there’s something else that’s wrong, too, I think in this culture, which change seems to happen for change’s sake.

Damien:

And maybe change doesn’t need to occur at all. Actually, tradition is what saves us and keeps us whole and keeps our humanity intact. And I think climate change might be a real example of that. That’s something I think you’ve spent a lot of your political career investigating and certainly criticising.

Damien:

I believed I heard that’s what the carbon tax was about. Carbon taxes are a means for globalism, for the UN to raise taxes, because the UN doesn’t have any natural tax base.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct.

Damien:

A nation state has a tax base, but a universalist system like that doesn’t have one. World governance doesn’t have a tax base. But that’s what the carbon tax, wasn’t it? Because a percentage of that went to the United Nations.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct. A big percentage. No, you’re absolutely correct. I don’t need to say anything about that. You’ve nailed it.

Damien:

Yeah. But that wasn’t necessarily a good thing, because that was change.

Malcolm Roberts:

Terrible.

Damien:

That was articulated to us by Julia Gillard, and that was change, but that wasn’t necessarily a good change, was it? Change is not always good.

Malcolm Roberts:

No. And so much of what we hear today from the Liberal Nationals, and the labor Greens is about reform. “We’ve got to make reforms.” And here comes another reform. It’s really fiddling, tinkering. It’s not reform at all.

Malcolm Roberts:

We need reform in tax. Complete overhaul, comprehensive overhaul to make it fair, efficient, and honest. We need complete overhaul of the industrial relation system.

Malcolm Roberts:

And now, I’ve had senior people in the ETU, the CFMEU, two of the most powerful unions of the country, say they want reform. I’ve had Dave Noonan from the CFMEU as senior national secretary say, “Yes,” he will sit down and discuss something like this.

Malcolm Roberts:

Because what’s happening is the industrial relation system has been corrupted by politicians. It’s now this thick. How can any individual work and know what his entitlements to her entitlements are? We want proper reform, not tinkering.

Damien:

The union alludes with government and corporations now, anyway, isn’t it?

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct.

Damien:

Actually, I remember being out the front of the CFMEU in Victoria, before it started to really go off down there with Andrews government. And it was extraordinary.

Damien:

And the membership were wild. They were so aggro. And John Setka, the leader of the CFMEU, tried to bust his way out of that office with knuckle dusters on. Punch his way through his membership. Got pushed back into the office.

Damien:

We walked past it again the other day and it’s still boarded up. Months later, it’s still boarded up as a reminder to what went down there on that day. And it really set off. The next day, 30,000 to 40,000 people occupied the West Gate Bridge in Melbourne.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, and that was wonderful. That’s the grass roots saying, “To hell with the CFMEU leadership.”

Damien:

It felt like hope at that point in time, and then the next day there was a few of us that were saying every day, every day, They’re just going to keep fighting every day. We thought, “Wow. This is a people’s revolution. We’re part of a people’s revolution.”

Damien:

Then the next day at the shrine, there was maybe one 10th of the people that had been there before. Significant number, but nowhere near it.

Malcolm Roberts:

[crosstalk 00:52:51]-

Damien:

And that’s when they opened fire on us. It was significant, too. Because think the state finally went, “Make them pay, make them pay.” And it’s extraordinary that the state actually said, “We will not tolerate you any longer.” But that’s not extraordinary at all, because that’s what power has done throughout history.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct.

Damien:

There’s actually nothing extraordinary about it.

Malcolm Roberts:

No, but it’s extraordinary that you stayed there. See, even in the face of those rubber bullets, you and many, many other people stayed there. And in the face of the CFMEU’s control of its members, the members said, “Go to hell.”

Malcolm Roberts:

And that was significant because Dan Andrew said, “If one of my largest union supports is being undermined by its own voters, I’ve got problems.” Dan Andrews brought, as you know, brought in lockdowns.

Malcolm Roberts:

The harsh, severe lockdown, the latest one. The last one with about 200 cases a day. He released the lockdowns with 2,000 cases a day because the people stood up, and that’s what we need. You were highly effective.

Damien:

People get rewarded from the system, don’t they? Because I was just talking to a guy the other day, and he was telling me how good Daniel Andrew was. That he’s never met a politician so willing to look after the people, to go that extra mile.

Damien:

And where does he get his money from? The government. He gets his money through government services, through ministering to addicts and alcoholics and stuff. He’s just funded. He’s basically funded to praise the government, to minimal effect of what he’s doing.

Malcolm Roberts:

Look at his media. He’s got so many journalists and social media manipulators. But if you look at government, what’s going on. Now, I’ve been a volunteer. I was a volunteer for basically 12 years.

Malcolm Roberts:

I was working voluntarily and costing me money to do so, in terms of some of the material I had to buy. Fighting a government that was taking money from me in the form of taxation, to put in climate bullshit which was completely wrong.

Malcolm Roberts:

And when I go around the country, I see thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who are fighting the government. Because the government is telling lies. And the government is using their money, either directly in campaigns or indirectly through funding the ABC to push campaigns out there.

Malcolm Roberts:

We’re actually fighting our own government. That’s why. And if you go to Canberra, I don’t know if you were in Canberra for the protest a couple weeks ago.

Damien:

Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was. I saw Pauline come out.

Malcolm Roberts:

So was I. Wasn’t it wonderful to see Australia back?

Damien:

Yeah.

Malcolm Roberts:

You go to Camp Epic and people were having fun. Because even though they were locked up to some extent, they were just being Australians again. And the buzz there was just phenomenal.

Malcolm Roberts:

It was one of the best things I felt. I felt like up until then, I’d been almost ashamed to be Australian in the last couple of years. But I felt that buzz. I could just feel it tingling in my body.

Damien:

Commissioner of the AFP came out and said estimates. I’m sure you’d be aware, he came out and said, “Maybe 6,000 or 7,000, 10,000 tops there on the day.” The propaganda wall continues, doesn’t it?

Malcolm Roberts:

I asked questions of the commissioner of the AFP, and I got to say he was quite good. He acknowledged that the behaviour of the crowd was fantastic.

Damien:

He did that.

Malcolm Roberts:

Head of ASIO. Was it Mike Burgess? He also said the behaviour was phenomenal, and that there were very few activists. There were two or three activists, but they weren’t part of the crowd. They were hangers on who wanted to take advantage of it. That was something for all Australians to be very, very proud of. [crosstalk 00:56:11]-

Damien:

That’s all Australians, or do you think it was predominantly Western European Australians or Western European heritage?

Malcolm Roberts:

There are a lot of Aboriginals involved, a lot of mixed races.

Damien:

There are a lot of [crosstalk 00:56:20].

Malcolm Roberts:

A lot of whites, for want of a better word. The big, big players were people who’d come from the former Eastern European countries, the communist countries. Same climate.

Malcolm Roberts:

When I went around the country speaking at rallies on climate, always the people who came up immediately I finished. They’d come up and they’d say, “Thank you. That was wonderful.” And they always had a foreign accent from Eastern Europe.

Damien:

Eastern Europeans are really strong. They’re really strong. You’re right. It was a European Australian movement mainly, because I see it every time. No one wants to admit it. No one wants to talk about it, because then you can be so easily pilloried.

Damien:

But if you see it, you look at it. But is there a problem? Is there a problem with mass immigration? Not multiculturalism as such or immigration, but mass immigration.

Malcolm Roberts:

There is a problem.

Damien:

Everyone is not moving in the same direction, as a cohesive unit, as a culture.

Malcolm Roberts:

Let’s get to that in a minute, and remind me if I don’t get back to it. But these Eastern Europeans, they said time after time, “We know what’s happening. We were born and in a totalitarian regime. Cruel, no freedom. We can see that coming here through the climate. We can see that climate change scam and the UN trying to get control.”

Malcolm Roberts:

They saw it. And I recognised that very early on in my research, even the first year, that it was all about control. Not about the environment, not about climate at all. It was about control and money. That’s what these globalists want. Immigration-

Damien:

10% will be fine and the rest of us will be slaves, serfs.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct. That’s all it’s about, control and money. They’re making the billionaires happy. You’ll notice that the UN gets a few key people on board. They’ll make the billionaires, like Twiggy Forrest will make a lot of money out of it.

Malcolm Roberts:

Atlassian founders will make a lot of money out of it from the scam of so-called renewable energy, which is really unreliable. It’s wind and solar. They’re devastatingly expensive, they cripple countries eventually. We’re starting to see that it’s a terrible future.

Malcolm Roberts:

That’s what they do. They make a few people rich and those people jump on board. Coming back to your immigration. Immigration, we have about 70,000 people leave a year, but we’ve had something like 240,000 come in every year.

Malcolm Roberts:

We have a massive growth in population. It’s suppressed wages, it’s destroyed some workers conditions. It’s cruel, the housing market. And it’s put pressure on infrastructure. Traffic jams are longer than they have to be. Waiting lists in hospitals are longer than they have to be.

Malcolm Roberts:

What Pauline and I want, we recognise immigration is good on two conditions. First of all, that you can manage the numbers within what we’re capable of with our infrastructure.

Malcolm Roberts:

And secondly, that we bring people in who want to come to Australia because they want what we’ve got, not come here and destroy what we’ve got. We want people who will comply with our laws, comply with our values, comply with our culture. People say to me, “America is multicultural.” America is not multicultural. America is Americans first, and they’re very, very proud of that.

Damien:

Haven’t we taken part of America with that though? Because we bring people here, but then we teach them our version of critical race theory. We teach them to hate our culture, we teach them to hate us.

Damien:

And this is an irony, because mainly there’s white middle aged men still in the parliament. There’s a lot of white women, too. And there’s other minority groups.

Malcolm Roberts:

The white men are gutless.

Damien:

But they’re the ones selling this. They’re the ones selling it for big government. It sells.

Malcolm Roberts:

Because the globalists have told the media that this is what has to be done. And then when the media pumps it up, people say, “I’m afraid to speak against it.” And so the white male parliamentarians, many of them just kowtow to it, just fall into line. And then they start parroting the same thing.

Damien:

We’re future readers. “We don’t care about the future, we just destroy it just so we get what we need and then [crosstalk 01:00:04]-“

Malcolm Roberts:

Exactly. “We want to get a vote.” That’s what some of them say. But America says, “By all means. If you’re Polish descent, be proud of Poland. If you’re Greek descent, if you’re African descent, if you’re Indian descent, be proud. Be proud of being Korean and Japanese and all the rest of it. Number one, I’m American.”

Malcolm Roberts:

And that’s what they say, and that’s what we need in here. Number one, I’m Australian. I was born in India to a Welsh father and an Australian mother. What am I? I’m Australian because that’s my citizenship and that’s what I’ve worked for. And same with Pauline, she’s Australian. I don’t know where you were born, but you’re obviously Australian.

Damien:

Is there a crisis of masculinity in this country?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes.

Damien:

Is that why so many young men are committing suicide?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes. It’s really crisis of courage. A crisis of integrity, a lack of integrity, a lack of courage.

Damien:

Have all the institutions been taken over by feminism as well?

Malcolm Roberts:

Most of them. Feminism is to some extent a reaction to females being left out of processes. Females couldn’t vote 120 years ago. That’s wrong.

Damien:

They didn’t have to go and fight foreign war either, and die on foreign fields. I guess there’s two ways of looking at it.

Malcolm Roberts:

Certainly. But what I’m getting to is that quotas where you have so many percent females will destroy things. Not because they’re female, but because you promote the people who are not quite competent.

Malcolm Roberts:

What we needed to have was an adult discussion saying, “We want you as a female in there, because you bring skills that you as a male don’t bring.” Males and females are wonderful when they’re working together, and they’re complimentary because females and males are different.

Damien:

That’s one of the divisions that has been done by government to us.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct.

Damien:

The division between men and women has been the ultimate one, really, in many respects.

Malcolm Roberts:

And you’ll notice that the UN and the World Economic Forum come out and say, “We have to fix climate because it hurts women. We have to fix climate because it hurts minorities. We have to fix climate because it hurts the children.”

Malcolm Roberts:

What the hell has it got to do with that? Everyone suffers if it’s true, but it’s not true. What they do is they always come up with something to divide, so that they get the female vote, the male vote, the white vote, the black vote. [crosstalk 01:02:12]-

Damien:

Nature will reassert itself eventually though, won’t it? Men will stand up for themselves again, ultimately, won’t they, when they have to. Or is that [foreign language 01:02:18]-

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, some of us already are and some women are. Pauline has always stood up.

Damien:

Definitely. And I see a lot of women, too, particularly in the freedom movement saying, “Where are the men? Where are the men?”

Malcolm Roberts:

I was about to say that a while ago and I forgot. You talked about a lot of the Eastern Europeans being leaders of the freedom movement here. Women, community groups. Women, marches, rallies. Women.

Malcolm Roberts:

They’re either upfront or they’re out the back. Or they’re saying, “Get your ass down to Canberra, hubby, and start protesting.” Because they’re concerned for their kids. Women have just been so wonderful. Gives me goosebumps to think about it. They’ve been wonderful just pushing this.

Damien:

It’s interesting, isn’t it? Because we talk about the Eastern Europeans have really been on the front lines. You think the Vietnamese would be a natural cohort, because they escaped a totalitarian communist regime as well to come here.

Damien:

Many of them fleeing in horrible circumstances, on boats, et cetera. But there’s not so many of them on the front lines, too. Is there a problem that they maybe don’t feel welcome, because they feel like, “That space is very much a European space?”

Malcolm Roberts:

I don’t know. I haven’t done studies. Could it be due to the Vietnamese… Basically, a lot of Asians tend to be more… What’s the word? Compliant with their regime.

Damien:

But clearly not these ones, because these are the ones that have fled the regimes.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, they fled. They didn’t stand up. They tried to, some of them, but they couldn’t.

Damien:

That’s an interesting point about immigration that people very rarely raise, too, isn’t it? At what point do you say, “Okay. Should I have fled Victoria?

Damien:

“Or should I flee Australia because I’m frightened about these circumstances that may be encroaching on us, and becoming totalitarian? Or is this the hill I die on and I stand and fight?”

Malcolm Roberts:

Exactly. And we’ve got so many Victorians coming up here now. Victoria had an extra seat allocated to it in the federal election, in the distribution of seats. And Western Australia is going to lose one. Now, they’re cancelling that because so many of them moved to Queensland. [crosstalk 01:04:17]-

Damien:

Yeah. I’ve got friends that moved here about eight months ago.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. When are you coming up?

Damien:

They saw Daniel Andrews’ Strong Cities Network and they said, “I’m out.” I’m here now, Malcolm.

Malcolm Roberts:

But the scary thing, Damien, is that in Mackay for example, and so many regional towns, they’re putting in the same crap. What do they call them? I can’t remember the UN’s name for those things.

Damien:

The the bloody Victorians are going to spread the wokeness with them. They’ll bring the wokeness up here. Don’t let anymore in.

Malcolm Roberts:

I was talking to a mayor of a pretty big city in Queensland. Mackay, I’ll mention it. They’re only doing it to take part in listening to it, but that’s how it starts. You’ve got to stand up and say, “To hell with you lot.” You’ve got to do your research and get rid of it.

Damien:

I’ll say when we arrived here, the Brisbane River was really flooding. You know what I mean? It reminded me of watching images on television of 2011, I think was the last major flood.

Damien:

And Kevin Rudd rolling up the sleeves and stuff, sandbagging. Hoping to get the top job back, which he did eventually, of course. And surely, these two major floods in 10 years, that would be an example of climate change, wouldn’t it, Malcolm?

Malcolm Roberts:

In 1893, there were three floods in the one summer. And each of them was more severe than the 1974 flood, which was more severe than the 2011 flood by a long way.

Damien:

And that was even before they were damming. They weren’t using the dam stands, so it was just natural waters coming through.

Malcolm Roberts:

Correct. You and I were talking before about the early settlers in Brisbane. They camped where the city centre is now, and the Aborigines came down from Spring Hill and said, “Nah. You’re going to get flooded.” And they didn’t take any notice.

Damien:

And that was John Oxley, wasn’t it? He was one of the early explorers and stuff.

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, there’s a book. I don’t know how long it’s been out. It’s called The City in the River. And Australian rivers, they quite often got very little in them. This close to the coast [inaudible 01:06:03], but they’ve got very little water in them. But next thing, they’re running massively.

Damien:

When they flood. Yeah. Well, up here in the tropics, too, it’s different again, isn’t it? There was a convergence of two rivers at that time. I think the Brisbane and what was the other one?

Malcolm Roberts:

The Bremer?

Damien:

The Bremer. Right. Yeah. They were smashing together. It’s a part of history that doesn’t really get talked about, too. The times when those first contact between European Australians and Aboriginal Australians.

Damien:

And it’s not all doom and gloom. Clearly, it’s a clash of civilizations, and I don’t know the way around that. I don’t think anyone does. It’s been a really intractable problem for Australia as a culture. [inaudible 01:06:38]. But there’s other moments, too, that it doesn’t get celebrate, does it? In the bureaucracy, anyway.

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, I think before we can propose solutions to problems, we have to understand the cause of the problem. And we haven’t bothered to listen to the Aborigines to understand the cause of the problem.

Malcolm Roberts:

And the government, and to some extent the early churches, were the major cause of the problems. And Whitlam really ramped up the problems under labor.

Malcolm Roberts:

But we still get prime minister Morrison and Anthony Albanese, the opposition leader, standing up and talking about closing the gap. It’s all bullshit. They just mouth platitudes. There’s not a single statement in there that’s really factually strong and consistent.

Malcolm Roberts:

We were up in Cape York, spent three weeks running around the Cape. We’ll go back again, because we listened to every community on the Cape. And the message we got repeatedly was land rights have been a complete failure. Native Title, been a complete failure.

Malcolm Roberts:

The Native Title Act, the [inaudible 01:07:38] preamble to the act is littered with the words UN agenda… United Nations, sorry. UN, United nations. What that was about was about locking up land. Taking it off the white fellas and keeping it away from the black fellas.

Malcolm Roberts:

Now, the Aborigines, when you listen to them in the communities, they can’t build houses because they can’t get land. Why would you build a house if you couldn’t own the land?

Malcolm Roberts:

Government has destroyed the Aborigines. What we’ve got now in this country, feeding off government, feeding off taxpayer, is the Aboriginal industry. They have black consultants, they have white consultants. All kinds of consultants and lawyers.

Malcolm Roberts:

The money goes from us in huge numbers as taxpayers, and it goes to the Aboriginal industry and gets hived off. And the people in the communities don’t get it.

Malcolm Roberts:

The people in the communities, when you actually listen to them and meet them. They’re wonderful, they’re fired up, they want autonomy. They want to make their own decisions. That sense of responsibility is removed from them by stupid government, state and Liberal.

Damien:

The world is changed, hasn’t it? They can’t stand the gilded cage as well. Sometimes [crosstalk 01:08:32]-

Malcolm Roberts:

Correc.t.

Damien:

… feel like we want to keep them in a gilded cage.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah, and that is doing enormous damage. Because what a human wants, the freedom to live, the freedom to make decisions. And make bad decisions and wear the consequences.

Damien:

I talked to someone on the show one time, and they were really concerned about the stolen generations. And they were talking about what great business plans they’ve brought to the Aboriginal community, to help them achieve in business and stuff.

Damien:

And I thought, “Isn’t it possible that in the future, that will be again, too part of cultural appropriation?” And you could see him flush red. I’m saying flush. It was a big crawl that I did in a way, too.

Damien:

But it was just to prove a point, because that’s the fear though. That’s the fear we’re all confronted with. And he was a good person. He was not being… You know what I mean?

Malcolm Roberts:

What do they say? Good intentions usually end up in damage. Because the point is-

Damien:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Malcolm Roberts:

Thank you, thank you. [inaudible 01:09:25] than I. But this is probably the strongest thing I can say about parliament. Liberal, labor, Nationals, and Greens don’t make decisions based on data.

Malcolm Roberts:

They make decisions based on looking after their mates, looking after their donors, looking after vested interests, kowtowing to the globalists, getting good media headline. Opinions, hearsay, looking good.

Malcolm Roberts:

Rather than actually saying, “Go and do the work, get the data, make a decision. Explain it to people and bring the people with you.” The climate change, the immigration, the Aboriginal issues all are devoid of data. They just try and do things that look good. And when you do that [crosstalk 01:10:03]-

Damien:

It’s hard operate with truth and integrity in those areas, because you know you can be ripped apart, so instead you try and stay away from it.

Malcolm Roberts:

I say it to people in the Liberal Party, labor Party, National party. Not the Greens because they wouldn’t understand. They’re incredibly thick and so ideologically driven. But the others, I say, “If you-“

Damien:

How you going with Lidia Thorpe, too? She’s joined you in the Senate.

Malcolm Roberts:

She’s actually quite nice to me. Quite pleasant, because I don’t pay any attention to her when she’s behaving like an idiot. She actually came up to me and sat in front of me and said, “I actually agree with lot of what you’re saying.”

Damien:

Wow. You’re getting a bit of that outside of the chamber.

Malcolm Roberts:

Yeah. Data. Look at the Liberal Party and the labor Party. How many leaders have been dumped over climate? I’ve counted about seven or eight. If they came up with the data, Damien, it’ll be all over.

Malcolm Roberts:

If they came up with the data, I’d be gone and finished. And I’m saying, “Go do it.” But I’ve got the data on my side, so whenever I have that position and there’s no evidence of what we’re doing will have any impact, I’m going to keep fighting it. I’m just going to keep going.

Damien:

That’s the same with corona, isn’t it? If they come with the data, they wouldn’t need to coerce me into a vaccine. I’d be lining up for one. As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be having this interview with right now. I’d be sitting home somewhere really safe, looking after myself and my family, hopefully.

Damien:

Our ability to make choices for ourselves has been taken away from us. And our ability to be able to take responsibility for ourselves and be treated like an adult, we’ve had in my experience in life.

Damien:

And I can make some of my own choices here. Thanks very much, government. But no, I better not. Because what do the experts say? Experts? What are you talking about? Who’s the expert?

Malcolm Roberts:

Well, what do they say? The experts, they say the scientists. There’s no science driving this mismanagement of COVID. On Monday, the 23rd of March, 2020, we had our first single day session in the parliament pushing through the COVID measures. Which was Job Seeker, I think it was.

Malcolm Roberts:

And then on Wednesday, the 8th of April, 2020, the following month, we had another single day session. And we pushed through Job Keeper. And I basically said to the government… And I was wrong on this.

Malcolm Roberts:

But I said, “Looking at all of the deaths being reported from overseas, we don’t know what’s involved so we’ve got to err on the side of caution.” I said, “We’re going to give you a blank check. Go to it.” But I said, “We want the data, we want a plan, and we will then hold you accountable.”

Malcolm Roberts:

And by the way, have you gone to Monash University and seen the remarkable results they’ve had with their in vitro trials of ivermectin? Very promising results. And have you looked at Taiwan, which is managing this virus extremely well?

Malcolm Roberts:

We have abysmally mismanaged. They never gave us the data. I wrote letters to the prime minister, letters to the premier. In Senate Estimates, I said to the chief medical officer, “I want the data that characterises the virus. And I want it in absolute terms and I want it relative to past severe flues.”

Malcolm Roberts:

[inaudible 01:12:57] came back on a wonderful graph, really easy to understand. They gave me the numbers. The severity on their own damn graph says low to moderate, not severe. Lower severity than past flues. What the hell are we doing?

Damien:

How do they still get away with it? That’s the thing you got to ask, how it still gets through. Malcolm Roberts, I could keep talking to you for hours. It’s been great.

Damien:

Look, what it is, is we’re allowed to be wrong, but we’re allowed to have an honest conversation. Because when we don’t and we’re shy of having an honest conversation, I feel like this is what’s going to cause the culture never to really get to where it needs to go. Thank you for having the courage to come on and have an honest conversation.

Malcolm Roberts:

You’re very welcome. And you didn’t talk about my shorts either.

Damien:

We’ll get those in a minute. We’re going to get those in a minute. You just dubbed yourself in. Are you rolling? We came to Queensland and this is what we’re expecting to see, and we didn’t see it until the right honourable Senator Malcolm Roberts turned up in his suit. He thought, “No, better wear the tie because I want to look good.” [inaudible 01:13:56] Hugo Boss shorts, did you say?

Malcolm Roberts:

Yes, and Armani sandals.

Damien:

Armani sandals, which have Aussie flags on them as well. I think they’ve got Aussie flags showing up. Aussie flag. [crosstalk 01:14:06]-

Malcolm Roberts:

Actually, we went out to listen to a wonderful scientist. We had dinner with her, my wife and I last Saturday. And we spent so long with her that it was late getting back.

Malcolm Roberts:

She’s got some wonderful stuff about COVID which we’re going to release soon. But so late getting back, we got cut off. I haven’t been home for three days.

Damien:

He hasn’t been home. [crosstalk 01:14:24]-

Malcolm Roberts:

I did have a shower this morning. I did have a shower this morning.

Damien:

I was going to say, mate.

Malcolm Roberts:

I came into town and I borrowed a shirt off one of our staffers who lives downtown.

Damien:

I told your chief of staff that I’d be happy to. I’ve got a couple shirts [inaudible 01:14:38].

Malcolm Roberts:

[crosstalk 01:14:38].

Damien:

Might have wrapped it around you. Could have worn it is a muumuu.

Malcolm Roberts:

Everyone above 5’3″ is abnormal anyway.

Damien:

You’re right. You should pass a law in parliament, I reckon. Thanks, mate.

Malcolm Roberts:

[inaudible 01:14:47].

Damien:

Good to talk to you.